AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!

Dear friends,

I'w working of a new book about all the Fiat (and Seat) 850-based derivatives, from 4-door sedans to formula cars.
I think you could know a lot about unusual and almost unknown models, hence I will ask for your help: the 3 strangest ones will be awarded with a free copy of the book, that will be printed in January 2010. We could even launch a poll on the forum to chose them.

Period pictures, magazine features and ads are most welcome.


Thank you in advance,

Alessandro.

Hi Alessandro,
I was going to contact you, because I was going to continue my 'Coachbuilders' article with the 850 derivates.
I have a list of them but I'm sure are all quite familiar to you:
850 4-door Lombardi Prototype (Quattroruote n.103)
850 4-door Lucciola Lombardi (n.103, 104 & 107)
850 Z Coupe Zagato (n.108)
850 Berlina Vignale (n.107)
850 Giannini Coupe Frua (n.97)
850 Coupe OSI (n.108)
850 Coupe Scionieri (n.104 & 107)
850 Coupe Siata (n.105 & 107)
850 Coupe Vignale (n.107 & 108)
850 Spider Libellula Lombardi (n.107)
850 Spider Savio (n.107 & 108)
850 Elettrica (Milleruote #5)
850 S Berlina, Coupe e Spyder Moretti (n.104 & 105)

all the pics are also in other sources but I'm sure you have all the Quattroruote issues...
Great pictures can also be found in the TAM.
850 Spider Ellena (n.107)
850 Spider Scioneri (n.104 & 107)
850 Spider Vignale (n.107)
850 Daino Spider Boneschi (n.108)
850 Belvedere Caprera (n.108)
850 SS Coupe Moretti
850 4-door Berlina Mantelli (n.108)
and the well known Hidalgo, Vanessa, City Taxi, Abarth....
I'm still working on it, since I'm at issue n.108.

and in Ruoteclassiche #62:
850 Vanessa Vignale, 4-porte Lombardi Serie 1 & 2, 4-porte Mantelli, 4-porte Allemano, Berlina Coupe e Spider Moretti, Berlinacoupe e Spider Vignale, 850 Cabriolet Savio, BerlinaScionieri, Spider Boneschi by Bonetto, Spider Ellena, 2+2 OSI, Spider Lombardi, Berlinetta Vignale, Berlinetta 'tipo Miura' Vignale, S4 e berlinetta Moretti, Grand Prix Spider Lombardi, OSI Week-end, Monza Lombardi, Siata Spring e Baldi El-Sabry. 

I have a pic for all of them of course, but I' ll post if someone will be interested.

About Formula cars, the Artes FIII Guepardo from 1966 was equipped with a Seat 850 engine.
And of course there is this car, i had it for later posting but...

Thanks!  :D

The amphibious is crazy! But I think is something modern. What do you think about?

In the list I've found three I probably have never seen: the electic one, the Artes Guepardo and the Hidalgo. More info about these are more than welcome!

Thanks again,

Alessandro.

I'm afraid all I can propose now would be from the Internet, but here you are the link to a 1973 article about Seat Juncosa Spider 850-1600 in Spanish:
http://www.forocompeticion.com/foro/index.php/topic,1205.0.html
Although I'm not sure whether you are interested in rally cars or not.

Another unusual 850 derivative I can recall is a tiny Samas Yeti 850 by Veicoli Speciali Delta.
http://fiat850.free.fr/annonces/annonces.htm
http://www.lanciaflavia.it/annunci/dettid.php?gb_id=19582

Some Fiat 850 engined cars were made in the USA. Among them there was quite an unusual PBS Mk2, which was equipped with a modified 850 engine. You can find a little information about it in a book called 'Vintage American road racing cars 1950-1969' available at books.google.com.
Also can be found here: http://dsr.racer.net/chassis/pbs/page1.htm. And a note about its engine: http://dsr.racer.net/engines/pbs/page1.htm.

Quite an unusual Formula Junior car with Fiat 850 engine was also built in the USA, but is yet unidentified by its current owner.
http://www.race-cardrivers.com/Vintage%20Formula%20C.htm

Still not all of the above creations quite fit the style of the cars featured in your books  ::)

P.S. Some links may reveal some sources for puzzles...

I'm sending you a PM with the link to the barchetta, it should be a model from 1975.
I'm sure you know the Hidalgo 1000, presented by Eurostyle in 1968 and the 1000 coupe of 69, both based on 850 mechanicals.
I'm uploading a couple of pics taken from the net, but I can scan better ones from my magazines.
About the electric version, in the Milleruote encyclopedia, Vol.5, pag.119, there are a couple of pics (one of the back and one of the interior) of the 850 modified by Fiat in 1964. I'm uploading the pics.
About the Artes, I'll collect the info I have and I'll post.
Here is a pic that is available on the net and in Pablo Gimeno's book 'El Automovil en Espana', pag 441, togheter with a pic of the engine.
@Faksta, you can sent PMs if you do not want to reveal sources.  ;)

I was right: you are the right people to ask help!  ;D

Faksta: thank you for the info. I already know some of them, but I'm very interested about the US-made ones, which of coure in Italy are less known. I got some info directly form PBS people a few months ago, but do you know other similar American 850-based sportscar?

About the Yeti, a little note not to add confusion: it was started by Delta (based in Turin) and after a few years  the project was passed to Samas (based in Ricca d'Alba, province of Cuneo). The first firm made it with 850 engine, the second with 127 903cc. So Delta and Samas are 2 different cars (also in some body details).

Paul: I missed the Hidalgo, so your help is very useful this time! I'll check if Quattroruote reported something; otherwise a higher-res picture will be welcome.


Thanks again to everybody!

I sent you right now a PM with the translation of the Artes page from Spanish to Italian (that is much easier for me). The engine was the Seat 850 one as reported in Gimeno's book and a  couple of websites (but I know the info on the web aren't necessarily trust worth). I'm uploading a pic of the engine.

FICHA TÉCNICA:
Motor: 4 cilindros en línea, 997 cc (81 x 48,35 mm) y 122 Cv Din a 9.000 rpm, válvulas en cabeza con árbol de levas lateral con tres apoyos y tres engranajes desde el cigüeñal. Par máximo: 9,25 m/kg a 7.500 rpm. Lubricado por bomba Hourborn Eaton de doble cuerpo. Carburador: Weber 46 IDA modificado. Refrigeración: por agua de circulación forzada con bomba accionada por correa dentada.
Transmisión: motor central, tracción posterior. Embrague: monodisco en seco Borg & Beck accionado por bomba. Caja de cambios: Hewland MK-6. Par cónico: Ford Cortina 8:35.
Llantas: Sélex de 10 pulgadas delante y 12 pulgadas detrás. Neumáticos: Dunlop Racing 4.25/10.00/13 delante y Dunlop Racing 5.25/11.50/13 detrás.
Chasis: estructura de tubo de acero soldado, con aleación de gran contenido en níquel. Carrocería: polyester reforzado. Tren delantero: ruedas independientes con trapecios desiguales, con barra estabilizadora y amortiguadores hidráulicos telescópicos graduables Sélex. Tren trasero: igual pero con bielas de reacción. Frenos: disco a las cuatro ruedas. Capacidad del depósito de combustible: 45 litros.
Vía anterior: 1,41 m. Vía posterior: 1,43 m. Largo x alto: 3,30 x 0,78 m. Altura desde el suelo: 9 cm. Peso: 400 kg.

Paul Jaray is moving fast here.

I believe this Allemano Coupé is not mentionded yet:

More info on the amphibious Fiat 850 Barchetta can easily be found on the internet.  It was for sale not that long ago on ebay.

See for example: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/18/ebay-find-of-the-day-amphibious-fiat-850-barchetta/

Still a lot of them are missing.

I will try to dig some deeper the coming days.

There is also the Michelotti designed Spiaggetta, Some Giannini's are still missing, I believe Pininfarina made some showcars on Fiat 850 Basis, Neckar Adria, Vignale Dart,...

More to come... :)

Thanks for the correction concerning Yeti.

I have also found a Fiat 850 sedan picture, which, in my opinion, is quite strange. Maybe it is because I have seen a 850 only once in my life, but I think there was no such version at the factory? And I can't recall any coachbuilt version like this from my memory ???  http://thesimpleconnoisseur.blogspot.com/2009/08/1965-fiat-850.html

Someone has also posted a puzzle of quite an interesting Fiat 850 coupe dragster from America with Volkswagen engine before, but I can't find it now, although found a vast information on it.

As for the other Fiat 850 American cars, I think they mostly were 850 Spider with a rollbar and some minor modifications. I'll share what I'll be able to find on this subject, although I'm not sure I will succeed.

That is the Allemano 4-porte.  ;)

Thanks :) That was mostly for my personal interest  ;D
Somehow the photo did not attach to my previous post. I cannot remember who has posted this as a puzzle.  :(

I was wrong, it is the Moretti 4-door, the Allemano version was quite different.
I'm posting some pics here.
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=7241.new#new

Quote from: faksta on September 30, 2009, 07:38:49 AM
Thanks :) That was mostly for my personal interest  ;D
Somehow the photo did not attach to my previous post. I cannot remember who has posted this as a puzzle.  :(

It was me...

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=7739.0

Yes, some are still missing... but we are on the right way.
Thanks again to everybody for the big help.

Vignale Dart! Finally it has a name: I ever saw it called the "little Miura"...

Hi Allesandro,

You are also interested in buggies that used the 850 engine?
In Holland we had the buggy Maplex Scorpion. Only 20 were made (and still 10 left), and according to http://home.wanadoo.nl/fiat600maplex/ only with 600 engine, but according to 'Autodesign in Nederland' by Jan Lammerse (Zwolle, 1993) they also used the 850 engine.

Of course you know the Michelotti Shelette and Zagato 850Z....

DynaMike: yes, I'm interested in everything has at least the 850 engine (or chassis, or more). The buggy you have shown me is exactly what I'm looking for!  :D

Quiller: yes, I know them, but thanks anyway!  ;)

Just because I'd like to be as more precise as possible, of course non to correct you but to help other enthusiasts in finding the correct info, the Shelette was actually a one-off on Daf base made for the playboy Philip Shel. The following 80-unit production based on Fiat was called the "Spiaggetta". This also according to the chrome badges on the front of the cars.

I did a quick but targeted search in my library for Fiat 850 derivates and the following list is what I came up with.  But i'm sure there are still (a lot of) cars missing:
A lot of them are already mentioned above but some are new in this thread.
Let me know from which ones you need more information.  (Although most of the time not a lot (sometimes even none) of additional info is available).  Please keep also in mind that sometimes a car in this list and a car that is already mentioned above can be the same car but with a (slightly) other name or description:

1964 Abarth OT 850/130 Berlina (standard body)
1964 Abarth OT 1000 Berlina (standard body)
1964 Abarth OT 1600 Berlina (standard body)
1964 Abarth OT 2000 Berlina (standard body)
1965 Abarth OT 1000 coupé and OTS 1000 S coupé (standard body)
1966 Abarth OT 1300/124 coupé (standard body)
1966 Abarth OT 2000 coupé
1968 Abarth OTS 1000 Coupé gruppo 3 (standard body)
1965 Allemano coupé Fiat 850
196? Allemano Coupé
1965 Allemano Berlina 4 porte
1972 Baldy Elsabry
19?? Baldy Riky
1965 Bertone Spider by Giugiaro (normal body)
1965 Bertone Fiat Abarth 1000 OTR 1000 coupé by giugiaro
1965 Bertone Fiat/Abarth OT 1000 spider (standard body)
1968 Bertone Fiat 850 Racer Team
1964 Boneschi Daino
1964 Caprera Fiat 850 Belvedere
1967 Caprera Fiat 850 Elaborazione (sun roof and improved interior)
1966 Caprera Fiat 850 Coupé
1964 Ellena Fiat 850 Spider with both Abarth 1000 and Fiat 850 mechanics
1968 Eurostyle Fiat 850 coupé (2 different ones)
1964 Fiat 850 (Standard car)
1965 Fiat 850 Coupé (Standard car)
1965 Fiat 850 Spider (Standard car)
1968 City-Taxi
1967 Francis Lombardi Fiat 850 Special (with big sunroof)
1968 Francis Lombardi Fiat 850 'Smart' on both 850 and 850 special basis
1964 Francis Lombardi Fiat 850 1st series  "Lucciola" 4 doors (3 side windows)
1964 Francis Lombardi Fiat 850 "Lucciola" 4 door (2 side windows)
1964 Francis Lombardi Fiat 850 and 850 Special "Lucciola" with simili-leather interior
1964 Francis Lombardi Fiat 850 "Libellula"
1969 Francis Lombardi Grand Prix spider (also called Monza?)
1968 Francis Lombardi Grand Prix coupé ( Giannini 850 and Giannini 1000 [not identical] and Abarth 1300 Scorpione and Scorpione S and SS)
1968 Francis Lombardi Special Grand Prix
1968 Francis Lombardi Monza
1965 Frua Fiat 850 (modified rear window)
1964 Giannini 850 S and 950 (standard body)
1965 Giannini 850 SL (standard body)
1965 Giannini 850 Coupé and 950 and 1000  (standard body)
1965 Giannini 850 Spider and 950 and 1000  (standard body)
1968 Giannini 1000 Berlina (standard body)
1964 Ghia Fiat Vanessa by Giugiaro
1966 Ghia Roots (only a drawing and not sure it is Fiat 850 based)
1963??? Mantelli elaborazione 850 SS
1964 Mantelli Fiat 850 4 door by Michelotti
1964 Moretti berlina 4 door
1964 Moretti coupé Fiat 850 Special
1964 Moretti Spider Fiat 850 Special
1966 Moretti coupé 850 (sportiva model)
1966 Moretti coupé 850 SS (sportiva model)
1966 Moretti coupé 1000 SC (sportiva model)
1966 Moretti 850 Sport Competizione (sportiva model with T-roof and Giannini engine)
1967 Moretti 850 (sportiva model)
1968 Moretti Berlinetta Sportiva on Fiat 850 Special  (sportiva model)
1968 Moretti Coupé on Fiat 850 Special  (sportiva model with sun roof)
1969 Moretti Berlinetta Sportiva on Fiat 850 Special  (sportiva model with other front)
1968 Michelotti Shellette on Fiat 850 Special basis
1968 Michelotti Coupé Fiat 850
1967 OSI Week-end
1964 OSI Coupé by Michelotti
1965 Pininfarina Fiat Abarth 1000 Coupé Speciale (the Spider has 600 Mechanics)
1964 Savio Spider
1964 Scioneri Coupé by Michelotti
1964 Scioneri Spider by Michelotti
1964 Scioneri Coupé by Barison
1966 Scioneri 850 elaborazione
1964 Siata coupé TS Fiat 850 by Michelotti
1967 Siata Spring
1964 Touring OSCA 1050 Spider
1964 Vignale Coupé 4 seats (Also as Giannini 850 S and 950)
1964 Vignale coupé 2+2 (Also as Giannini 850 S and 950)
1964 Vignale Spider (Also as Giannini 850 S and 950)
1969 Vignale "850 Special Export" in I think both 2+2 and 4 seat
1965 Vignale Berlinetta coupé
1969 Vignale Dart on Fiat 850 Special basis
1964 Zagato Fiat 850 coupé Z

Because of the complexity of the Giannini and Abarth line-up some more in dept research will be necessary.

There are also the 'license built' Fiat 850 cars like the Neckar Adria, Pirin-Fiat 850 and  Seat 850 and its derivates.

850 T derivates are not mentioned in the list because you already published a book about these.  :)

I don't know how far you want go with your book but cars like the Autobianchi A 112 had Fiat 850 (derived) engines as well.

Dear 75america: great list!

A few questions:

- 2 Allemano coupes: what's the 2nd one?
- Ghia Roots: never seen before...
- Scioneri Michelotti & Barison: which is the one and which the other?
- Touring OSCA 1050: never seen before...

Standard cars built under license (Seat, Neckar, Steyr, ...): no, I don't consider them as a "fuoriserie". A "fuoriserie" is somethign built without any Fiat's involvement, just buying (directly or indirectly) from Fiat the whole car/the chassis/the engine.

Perhpas after completing the "Fiat fuoriserie" pattern I could begin with one about the licenseers.

Touring OSCA 1050
Another puzzle is gone...  ;)

Quote from: Paul Jaray on October 01, 2009, 03:23:14 AM
Another puzzle is gone...  ;)

:lmao:

and finally:

Great and both unknown to me!  :D

The second one seems a little Osca 1600 TC. But what about the first one, which is named in 2 different ways in the 2 pictures? Do you think it's correct guessing that Touring made the body and Osca tuned the engine?

The first pic cames from Ruoteclassiche magazine from 2000s, where they knew it was a prototype!
The 2nd comes from Quattroruote #108, when it was shown.
I took this pictures these days, and I had not the time to organize them properly.  :)
The coupe was built by Carrozzeria Corbetta
Here's the article:

It's incredible how, even having checked all Quattroruote issues at least twice, there is still something I missed...

What can I say? Thanks again!

The coupe was made by Carrozzeria Corbetta and both cars are reported also in the TAM (Quattroruote Special Tutte le Auto del Mondo) of 1965.

There was also a Tecnokart (later Tecno) prepared for the Formula 850, but I do not have the details yet...

Quote from: als15 on September 30, 2009, 06:45:09 PM
Dear 75america: great list!

A few questions:

- 2 Allemano coupes: what's the 2nd one?
- Ghia Roots: never seen before...
- Scioneri Michelotti & Barison: which is the one and which the other?
- Touring OSCA 1050: never seen before...

Standard cars built under license (Seat, Neckar, Steyr, ...): no, I don't consider them as a "fuoriserie". A "fuoriserie" is somethign built without any Fiat's involvement, just buying (directly or indirectly) from Fiat the whole car/the chassis/the engine.

Perhaps after completing the "Fiat fuoriserie" pattern I could begin with one about the licenseers.

I was too quick in making my list.  I rechecked it and it seems that the Allemano coupés are one and the same car.  :-[

In the attachment the Ghia Roots drawing.  As I mentioned before I'm not sure that it is based on a Fiat 850 but because of the rear engine and the year 1966, it might be possible. PJ might have more info?

The Michelotti designed Scioneri cars (coupe and spider) are the ones without 'radiator grill'  The Barison car has a 'radiator grill'.  The Barison car has also some kind of 'Hofmeister heck'

Touring OSCA is already showed by PJ

Astech

Trivette

I forgot to mention the Giannini 850 Sport (1972)

Today I have found this material. Although it is closer to racing preparation. Fiat 850 prepared by FAZA from USA and some more cars in the same brochure. Among them 850 engined Tecno and De Sanctis were new for me.
http://850doc2.hexenberg.com/faza_850_competition_guide/index.html

Thanks! It's fantastic! In that inimitable randomly-assembled style of Al Cosentino... And actually neither the Tecno nor the De Sanctis haven't even an Abarth bolt and were put there just to add racing feeling to the 850.

Most probably needless to say, but do not forget the Orsa version of the Siata Spring and the Otas version of the Francis Lombardi Grand Prix.

There is also a poll linked to this topic, in order to vote which are the most obscure, unusual and hence interesting among the cars you have posted here.

If you would like to contribute with your vote, please click here:
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=9651.0

Thanks!  :)

I forgot this one:
Fiat 850 Electra built in the 70s by Die Mesh Corp. in Pelham, N.Y.

ELECTRA (US) 1974
Die Mesh Corp., Pelham, New York
Fiat 850 Spyders were converted to electric power by this company, using three 3.2hp motors. They had a range of 40 miles.
(The Beaulieu Enciclopedia)

obviousely another Fiat 850 based:

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=4190.0

Actually I don't tkink so.  ;)
The 6x6 was a special version of the second Yeti, the "903", not made by Delta but by Samas, powered by a Fiat 127 engine and launched in 1972.

There is also a car called Grijpstra
Here's what I have, .(source: Autodesign in Nederland, Jan Lammerse) :

"Aan het eind van de jaren zestig bouwt de heer Grijpstra een sportauto met vleugeldeuren. Het chassis en de techniek zijn afkomstig van een Fiat 850. De door hemzelf ontworpen, met de hand gemaakte polyester carrosserie heeft strakke, voor die tijd moderne lijnen. De hele auto is keurig afgewerkt."

-automatic translation-

"At the end of the sixties Mr Grijpstra built a sports car with wing doors. The chassis and the technology come from a Fiat 850. Designed by himself, hand-made polyester body features sleek, modern lines for that time. The whole car is well finished."

Quote from: Paul Jaray on November 18, 2009, 08:14:36 PM
There is also a car called Grijpstra

It sounds interesting, but I wasn't able to find any picture of it...  :'(
Perhaps somebody has one?

In Amsterdam, there was another 850-based car: a fiat 850 spider with a glass-back hardtop by Martaré...Here's a pic

Not this Martare, right?

I'll post all I have tonight.
(not that model, but the same builder)

PJ, is it from Lammerse's book?

Not from there.
Here's what is in Lammerse's book:

Ed Martaré, reclameontwerper te Amsterdam, boekte zijn eerste succes op automobielgebied met een hardtop voor een Fiat 850 Spider., Maar toen het model bleek aan te slaan werd in Martaré's polyesterbedrijf MijMar in Aalsmeer een kleine serie voor de verkoop gemaakt. (...).

--automatic translation--

Ed Martare, advertising designer in Amsterdam, recorded his first success in automobile with a hardtop for a Fiat 850 Spider. But when the model appeared to strike was Martare's polyester business MijMar in Aalsmeer a small series of sales made. (...).

Is this car now?  ;)

Nice car. I also got some info on the web. Martaré's son is offering on sale the moulds for both the 850 and the GT. By the way, does anybody know on what car was the GT based?

I believe it was VW Beetle based.  Probably 8 cars were made.

...Martare's next project was a sports car just one meter high. The prototype was mounted on a own-design chassis , which consisted of welded steel square pipes. The bottom section and a proportion of the body, both of polyester, were as it were pasted around the chassis, so a rigid structure was established. The engine of a Fiat 125 was rear and linked with a gearbox and other transmission components of a Fiat-238 pickup. (...)

If I understood right, the high cost of this procedure made him choose the VW chassis for later production.

Maybe this page will help in contacting people who would know more about Martare GT?

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/classic-cars/9470-martar-anoraks.html

I found this picture on ebay.it, the model was for sale.
It was said to be a Viotti-bodied FIAT 850.
I guess no real car was made, though?

(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1092/fiat850viotti.jpg) (http://img412.imageshack.us/i/fiat850viotti.jpg/)

Cool!

Welcome to AutoPuzzles, FredrikB  :)

Thank you. It's very interesting. Can I ask you where this picture comes from?

I found the picture (together with several other, which I stupidly did not save) at the italian Ebay (www.ebay.it). It was an auction for the model, and it was stated it was a design study for a Viotti bodied FIAT 850. The starting price I think was 300 € (or 500€?) and it did not sell the first time. I downloaded the picture 20090701 (july first), while the auction was still active. The auction had the ebay number 130316108925. I do not recall the seller's alias.
Is it possible that Viotti did a design study on the FIAT 850?
When did they end their business (sometime 1964?)?
I am no expert, just interested in the 850.
I am sorry not to be of any more help

Best regards

Fredrik Bökman, Sweden

Viotti actually ended its activity in 1964, so it's possible that a study for the 850 has been started and not completed.
Your info is very useful. I'll try to find out something more through other channels offline. If I find something I'll inform the community.

I found another racing car:
Kangaroo-Fiat:
Fred Plotkin built this Fiat-powered sports-racer in the mid-1960s. The car was constructed on a one-off monocoque chassis with the front suspension and drum brakes from an NSU Prinz. A highly developed Fiat 850-cc engine with elevated compression and dual SU carburetors provided the power, which was transmitted through a Fiat four-speed gearbox. The body was a fiberglass creation painted in a loud shade of yellow. The car was light, nimble, and responsive and was a real contender in its class.
(Source: Vintage American road racing cars, Harold W. Pace & Mark R. Brinker)

I don't know if it is a Fiat 850 engine or a tuned, smaller one. There is also a picture.

Thanks for the info.
I have that book and I have also got a picture and a few info from Fred Plotkin. It's a Fiat 850 engine with PBS head, which was as much competitive while less expensive than the Abarth one in the USA.

Allesandro, have you asked at the Yahoo 850 group ?
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/fiat850/
It is a rather active group with a lot of knowledge of the FIAT 850s in several different forms

Have you had contact with the Danish owner of one of the FIAT 850 Zagatos? He is a active member on the alfabb
www.alfabb.com/forums

Just some suggestions.

Fredrik

Another racer with a Fiat 850 engine was the OLGA Formula 3 from 1967.

...and in 1967 in spain, there was a Seat 850 4-doors by Costa. (Quattroruote #139)

Yes, under Francis Lombardi license.
But this one was an official Seat version and I've chosen to include in these books only conversions made by independent firms without involving the car manufacturers. This explains also why you won't find in this book neither the base 850 Spider Bertone (only the CL and Racer that weren't sold by Fiat) nor the Frua high-roof sedan made for NSU-Fiat.
However, thanks once again for pointing out for me so many models and versions.  :)

Dear friend, finally the book is finished, packed and ready-to-print.
I must thank you very much for the enthusiastic and so helpful contribution you have given me!  :)

Now it's also time to award the free copies, as I promized, so if you want to vote for the best contribution please take part in the poll at http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=9651.0. I will close it in a few days.

Thanks again!

Quote from: als15 on December 11, 2009, 01:59:58 PM
Dear friend, finally the book is finished, packed and ready-to-print.
I must thank you very much for the enthusiastic and so helpful contribution you have given me!  :)

Now it's also time to award the free copies, as I promized, so if you want to vote for the best contribution please take part in the poll at http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=9651.0. I will close it in a few days.

Thanks again!

Classy.

Again, glad to have you aboard!

Quote from: als15 on November 22, 2009, 04:17:47 AM
Nice car. I also got some info on the web. Martaré's son is offering on sale the moulds for both the 850 and the GT. By the way, does anybody know on what car was the GT based?

VW Beetle chassis and engine / specially-designed chassis and Fiat 125 engine.

Alessandro, I have just stumbled upon some championship I have honestly never heard of before (or maybe just didn't give it much attention, althoug I believe the first reason was closer to the truth) - Formula 850. It is said that they used 850cc Fiat engines forced up to 80hp. Among the makes present in the results, I have found some names which were new for me: Biraghi, Lucky Genovese, Tony, Giuliani, Del Giovane, AZ De Sanctis, Fagioli, Barrelli, Paparusso, Zambarbieri. Pretty lot of cars which I have almost no idea about, other than I could find a picture of Lucky Genovese here: http://www.motorsportblog.it/post/7128/lo-scatto-in-corsa-la-formula-850-nel-1967. Maybe this information will come in handy somehow, or maybe I am just a man from a dark forest who states the obvious :P

Alloni, AMS, Bellasi, Bignami, Bonetti, BWA, CRM, Dagrada, Foglietti, Guerrini, Maco, MZ, Nigiopa, Patriarca, Poponi, Renzini, Repetto, Selene, Sozzani Tagliani, Tecno\Tecnokraft Vaccari and Zamba were other Formula 850 builders, just for the record.

Thanks both to faksta an Paul Jaray: I'll carefully check if all the brands you mentioned are in the book, but I've already done a big work to find out info about this so little known cars.

These are the Formula 850 manufactures I found out (at least, with a picutre or a short note; not just a name in the entry-list of some race):

- Agosti
- AMS
- Arrigoni
- Atecar
- Autotecnica (Macciantelli)
- AZ (Zedde)
- Bellasi
- Biraghi
- Birel
- Bonetti
- BWA
- CRM
- Dagrada
- De Sanctis
- Del Giovane
- Dema
- Di Rosa
- DSG (De Sanctis-Genovese)
- Facetti
- Fagioli
- Ferrazzi
- Fioretti
- Foglietti
- Genovese
- Giuliani
- GMS (Ciceri)
- Guarnieri
- IPS
- Lavazza
- Lucky
- Mantissa
- Marras
- Muccini
- MZ (Zambarbieri)
- Narvin
- Nipama
- Ogna
- Ol-Ga
- Paparusso
- Patriarca
- Poponi
- Prat
- Renzini
- Repetto
- Sanchini
- Silva
- Sozzani
- Spi-Car
- Stylauto (Bellasi & Viscardi)
- Tagliani
- Tanesini
- Tecno
- Tony Kart
- Vaccari
- Venaria
- Vico
- Wainer

Plus some who just worked on the engines and the tuning of these cars.
You will find all in the book...  ;D

You gave me and idea... so I just posted a puzzle about Formula 850. Let's try to identify them!  ;D

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=10418.0

Quote from: als15 on December 19, 2009, 08:25:51 AM
You gave me and idea... so I just posted a puzzle about Formula 850. Let's try to identify them!  ;D

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=10418.0

:thumbsup: Will try to find some of them.

I just bumped on this one.
I hope he is included in the book.

Lampra by Giunsella on the basis of a Fiat 850 Sport Spider

Quote from: 75america on December 30, 2009, 11:03:05 AM
I hope he is included in the book.

Thanks for having posted it.
Luckily, I know it and I also found a few more info on other magazines.  :)

Finally, it is complete! In the next few day all will go on print.

You are the first ones to see the cover.  ;)

Soon I'll post something about the next project...

And thanks again for your help!

Awesome!!!!

I would like to take the opportunity to speak for everyone here when I say that we are all honored to have been even the tiniest bit a part of your project and thanks again for the opportunity to contribute.

:applause: :hail: :drink:

Agree!
Don't stop with these wonderful books!

Very cool.

Dear friends, it's me that should thank you. And not only for the big help you give me, but also for the very nice experience of discussing, comparing sources, discovering new info and checking a lot of things before printing the book.
I think we can consider it as a "book 2.0" because of the way it has been put togheter.
And I hope this time I will minimize that ugly phenomenon that afflicts every author when a book is already printed: dozens of friends sending mails like "I forgot to tell you about that coachbuilder..." or "why haven't you asked me: I've plenty of unpublished pictures..." and so on.

Included?

No...  >:(
But fortunately I think it's a Fiat-made prototype, as it shows a pre-homologation number-plate.
However, it's very interesting because I didn't know Fiat made such a study...

I found the 850 station wagon in 4R # 136 (04/1967 p242)
If you don't have a copy of the magazine, I can scan and post the (almost completely irrelevant) article.

I recently found this on a Japanese page. The translation wasn't that informative, but described it as a carrozzeria made car from 1971 based on a Fiat 850. Somehow it looks common, but I could be mistaken..
Is it an already known car or maybe even something completely different?

Never seen before. It looks actually rear-engined, but I don't know if an 850 or anything else...  ???

If you have any relation to Japan (maybe a buddy to help translate or doing some correspondence) I could PM the link I have.
Meanwhile I've tried to follow the thread for later posts on that subject. But unfortunately that blog does not even have a search engine, so, it's like searching for the needle in the haystack.  :-\

Quote from: als15 on February 12, 2010, 02:56:27 PM
No...  >:(
But fortunately I think it's a Fiat-made prototype, as it shows a pre-homologation number-plate.
However, it's very interesting because I didn't know Fiat made such a study...

Maybe an 850 SW proposal made for Fiat by an external coachbuilder?

Quote from: Iluvatar on November 04, 2010, 08:15:57 AM
Maybe an 850 SW proposal made for Fiat by an external coachbuilder?

It's hard to know... In fact there is something in the picture that could even look like an emblem on the front fender... and it could be a coachbuilder's one.
For sure is not the well-known Caprera conversion, because the rear part is definitely different.
It could teoretically be any of the usual coachbuilder that made similar cars a that time... On the other hand, Savio and OSI (that made 1800-2300 and 1300-1500 SW versions) didn't apply their badges when working for Fiat.
I think it will remain a mistery unless we got some clearer picture.

Alcuni prototipi della Fiat 850.
Forse li conosci già, e non sono vere fuoriserie, ma...
link deleted (http://link%20deleted)
MPC

Quote from: Iluvatar on November 04, 2010, 09:27:49 AM
Alcuni prototipi della Fiat 850.
Forse li conosci già, e non sono vere fuoriserie, ma...
link deleted (http://link%20deleted)

Sorry, but linking is forbidden! Read the autopuzzles rule book please!

But I had time to see it...  ;D And yes, it's an interesting source. However, the one shown are prototype of the Fiat 122 (not the 100G - 850), that ended becoming the Simca 1000. The 850 was born as a big 600 and only at the very last minute the tail has been reshaped for aerodynamical reasons. If I'm right, they come from Quattroruote and there should also be a couple with Carlo Salamano (already retired) testing one of them.

Nevertheless, my biggest problem is that the book has already been printed 6 months ago and if something new come up now I should modify by hand hundreds of books...  ;)

Quote from: Allemano on November 04, 2010, 09:33:32 AM
Sorry, but linking is forbidden! Read the autopuzzles rule book please!

Oops  :-[

Quote from: als15 on November 04, 2010, 09:39:01 AM
Nevertheless, my biggest problem is that the book has already been printed 6 months ago and if something new come up now I should modify by hand hundreds of books...  ;)

For the next edition... ;)

Quote from: 75america on December 30, 2009, 11:03:05 AM
I just bumped on this one.
I hope he is included in the book.

Lampra by Giunsella on the basis of a Fiat 850 Sport Spider

More on this car.  According to a 1970 issue of Road and Track Magazine, it was called the Pozzi Lampra by Giunsella of Genoa. 

I hope this car still exists.  Here are the additional pictures I have found.

What a nice car!

Quote from: Allemano on November 04, 2010, 09:33:32 AM

Quote from: Iluvatar on November 04, 2010, 09:27:49 AM
Alcuni prototipi della Fiat 850.
Forse li conosci già, e non sono vere fuoriserie, ma...
link deleted (http://link%20deleted)

Sorry, but linking is forbidden! Read the autopuzzles rule book please!

I didn't think that rule applied to this Section?