Puzzle #1843 -Coupe de Pontac

[Otto Puzzell]

While at first blush this may seem to be a repost, a closer look reveals something different. Please, respond below and share your knowledge of this vehicle, and where and when the picture was taken.  

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Also, please be sure to check out our other puzzles, and, please post a puzzle of your own if you'd like - the more, the merrier.

Thanks!

[Allemano]

hmmm..

[Wendax]

This is a De Pontac, based on a Citroen 2 CV, shown at the Paris Salon 1957.

[Otto Puzzell]

Per Ray's comment in the other puzzle, there was more than one. This is not his puzzle car, but it is the other picture he posted.

Now what's this one called, specifically?  

Locked for Wendax for 24 hours.

[Wendax]

Coupé de Pontac

[Otto Puzzell]

Simple as that

[Paul Jaray]

I beg to differ...there were 2 different versions of this car, the 1st in 1955, Citroen-powered...the 2nd in 1957 was Panhard-based.
They were both 'Barquettes' but the 850cc Panhard had this hardtop.
Here are some more pics:

[Otto Puzzell]

Differ with what?

[Vincent Vell Vet]

The more I see of this site the more I love French cars.
Whoever desiged this car didn't give a flyin' flip what anyone else thought.
The front might be a little "off'', but now that I see the color pic, It's really growing on me.
And it's from '57 or so? I would have guessed a bit newer.
Love it!

[woodinsight]

These cars were built by Ets. S.E.P.A., Bordeaux and the man behind them was the Marquis Jean-Marie de Pontac.

Another (not very good) view from a more overhead perspective -

[Carnut]

The more I see of this site the more I love French cars.

They do like to be a little different!

[Otto Puzzell]

The more I see of this site the more I love French cars.
Whoever desiged this car didn't give a flyin' flip what anyone else thought.
The front might be a little "off'', but now that I see the color pic, It's really growing on me.
And it's from '57 or so? I would have guessed a bit newer.
Love it!

This mayl shake you back to normal thinking.  Click

[Vincent Vell Vet]

HA! Love the "click".

And ya know what's even funnier? The car posted at the end of the thread?

I have 2 of 'em!!!

And believe it or (probably) not, set up juuuuust right, with the right stance, the right set of tires, no hub-caps, just plain black factory steelies, these cars look positively wIcKeD!
Especially with a big block hidden under the hood sleeper style of course.

Something else. There are very few cars you could show me made before '72 that I wouldn't have some appreciation for.

And that Renault? It's at least interesting to look at. It sure ain't the manliest machine, but if one were to ever find it's way to Portland Maine I bet I could sell it several times over to many a female art student! 

[DynaMike]

"And that Renault?" Actually that is a Citroën 
"l'Ami 6" is pronounced in French as "the missis" and it has been sold to the USA, though not in big numbers, of course...

[Vincent Vell Vet]

Now that's embarrassing! Thank you for the correction.
I have only seen one here (US) so I never knew if one just escaped or there was actually dealers carrying them.
Can anyone tell me if these were considered good cars mechanically?
Also, I'm still unfamiliar with AutoPuzzle's editquette, is it ok to ramble off-topic like I tend to do?

[Otto Puzzell]

It's not just OK, it's welcomed and appreciated.

[DynaMike]

They were extremely slow and noisy    but also extremely comfortable and roomy for a small car  
They had an air-cooled flat-twin of 602 cc and 22 bhp in 1961, 25 bhp since 1964. Top speed was 105 to 115 km/h, but it took a very long time to reach that. Roomy enough for 4 adults and their luggage and with the independant suspension on all four wheels and the front wheel drive the roadholding was as good (if not better) than most modern cars, so once you had reached speed, no need to slow down for cornering. At least as long as you're not afraid of the extreme leaning, as a result of the very soft suspension and very long wheel movements.
I once had the oppurtunity to drive an Ami 6 from the South of France to Holland (some 1600 kms/1000 miles) and I was really surprised of the comfortable ride...

Btw, about the De Pontac Coupé, I'm not so sure that it had a Panhard engine, though De Pontac did make a racecar with rear mounted Panhard engine, the barquette and the coupé had a RAF tuned 2CV engine of 500 cc. In the 90s I spoke to the French car journalist Dominique Pagneux, who told me that he had recovered teh remains of the flower-decorated De Pontac. But never heard anything ever since, so I guess it is still awaiting its restauration.

(picture from Automobilia #61, mars-avril 2003)

[DynaMike]

And a picture of a cornering Ami 6:

[Paul Jaray]

Btw, about the De Pontac Coupé, I'm not so sure that it had a Panhard engine, though De Pontac did make a racecar with rear mounted Panhard engine, the barquette and the coupé had a RAF tuned 2CV engine of 500 cc. In the 90s I spoke to the French car journalist Dominique Pagneux, who told me that he had recovered teh remains of the flower-decorated De Pontac. But never heard anything ever since, so I guess it is still awaiting its restauration.

(picture from Automobilia #61, mars-avril 2003)

That is strange, since we share the same source:
In Automobilia Hors Serie #8, (the issue about the '57 Salon), pag.32, there are 8 pictures of this car and two of them show the engine.
The article ends: "Pour la motorisation, de Pontac abandonne le bicylindre 2 CV Citroen au profit d'un 5 CV Dyna Panhard spècialement retravaillè pour obtenir 55 ch" And the captions of the pics: "Le moteur Panhard en cours de préparation sous le capot de la 5 CV de Pontac 1958. Avec ce bicylindre poussé a 55 ch, la voiture atteint des performances dignes d'une véritable sportive, ce qui lui était interdit avec le précedent 2 CV Citroen dont la version munie d'une turbine RAF et de deux carburateurs ne dépaissait pas 26 ch." 

[Paul Jaray]

But in the end I may be wrong about the hardtop, since it's not that clear if it was a roadster plus hardtop or an hardtop-coupe!

[Vincent Vell Vet]

HAHAHAHA! Good gravy thats a wicked gangster lean fer sher!
Thank you for the great pic and the reply Dynamike.
But I wouldn't be affraid, I believe you when you say the handling is very good.
I used to own many, many SAAB 96 sedans and 95 wagons. V4s and 3cyls. They would lean a fair amount too, but the handling was also quite good. Especially the lighter, WAY lighter 3cyl.
I could DRAG a V4 from the car without a hoist, but LIFT out a 3cyl by myself!

Sounds to me if that Citroen had a 4cyl., it would have been a great car.

If I may pick your brain a bit more; were the Citroens like the DS series considered dependable mechanically?
As a U.S.ofA'er I have little opportunity to easily purchase...in order to learn and fully experience cars like that. Your opinions would be very appreciated!
Most meat-head Americans are frightend of anything outside the norm.

[DynaMike]

That's interesting, PJ! I don't have the Salon issue (only 1939 and 1960) as they are relatively expensive and not available in Holland. A Panhard engine would indeed be much more aproppriate for such a car...

[woodinsight]

But in the end I may be wrong about the hardtop, since it's not that clear if it was a roadster plus hardtop or an hardtop-coupe!

A moot point perhaps as this earlier version would seem to indicate.
It's difficult to see where you would put this hardtop if indeed it was removable!

[Paul Jaray]

That's interesting, PJ! I don't have the Salon issue (only 1939 and 1960) as they are relatively expensive and not available in Holland. A Panhard engine would indeed be much more aproppriate for such a car...

I had the luck to find the all at a reasonable price...44 issues with all the French cars built between 1919 and 1983 with tons of pics!
..but also many missing ones.

[DynaMike]

@ Vincent Vell Vet :
Actually there was a newer version of the Ami with a 1015 cc flat-four engine of the Citroën GS, the Ami Super, and also a (very small) series of prototypes of a sort of a coupé version with the DS-like hydropneumatic suspension and a rotary engine, the M 35 (I had the honour to have a ride in one of only 276 built, a few months ago).


Maintenance of the DS is an art apart... The engine is no problem at all, and the oil-and-air suspension is very reliable as long as it gets its regular maintenance and is used regularly. But often it is seen as too complicated, and then it won't be easy to get things right again... Also trust can be a major problem. On the other hand, if you know what to do, if there is no salt on the streets (as here in winter) and not too much rain and if you're not afraid of demanteling most of the car just to replace or repair some unimported small part of it... it is (in my opinion) really teh most interesting car to drive...