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TIFOSITEASER # 44 <SOLVED> DON LEE SPECIAL[MERCEDES W154]/INDIANAPOLIS/ CHET MI

Started by Tifosi, October 23, 2007, 12:50:14 AM

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Tifosi

October 23, 2007, 12:50:14 AM Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 04:59:35 AM by Oguerrerob
Can you ID the car, driver and location in this picture?  One point for each...
"Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending..."

Bender B.Rodrigues

Allan L

#1
October 23, 2007, 03:27:12 AM
I think it may be a Mercedes W163 at the Temporada in Argentina in 1951
Opinionated but sometimes wrong

D-type

#2
October 23, 2007, 06:43:57 AM
Mercedes-Benz  W154 (can't say whether it had the M154 or M163 engine as there are no external differences)
Location - I'll copy Allan L and say  Argentine Temporada, despite a feeling that it might be Indianapolis, but an early test before it was signwritten
Duncan Rollo

The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.

Tifosi

#3
October 23, 2007, 11:16:23 AM
The car is a Mercedes; can you give the location of the pic and who the driver was?


Dan
"Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending..."

Bender B.Rodrigues

Allan L

#4
October 23, 2007, 12:31:03 PM
If what I've guessed is right it's at Costanera Norte, Buenos Aires where two 154/163s raced on 18/2/51 and a week later (25/2/51
The drivers were Hermann Lang and Juan-Manuel Fangio (2nd and 3rd) on 18th and Lang and Karl Kling (3rd and 2nd) on 25th
Both races were won by Froilan Gonzalez in a Ferrari 166
Opinionated but sometimes wrong

Tifosi

#5
October 23, 2007, 04:14:38 PM
Not Buenos Aires, nor Kling, Fangio or Lang...


Dan
"Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending..."

Bender B.Rodrigues

Allan L

#6
October 24, 2007, 03:35:12 AM
Firestone Tyres (sorry, tires) may mean D-Type was right about Indianapolis. Haven't time to look up what happened there. All I recall is that Carracciola was supposed to race a W165 there but it didn't get there so he drove and seriously crashed a normal brickyard special. Perhaps I've got the scale wrong and it's the 165 being prepared for Indy.
Opinionated but sometimes wrong

D-type

#7
October 24, 2007, 11:48:32 AM
Mercedes-Benz W154 chassis number W154/9 driven in the 1947 Indianapolis 500 by Duke Naylon
Duncan Rollo

The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.

Tifosi

#8
October 24, 2007, 05:02:26 PM
Quote from: D-type on October 24, 2007, 11:48:32 AM
Mercedes-Benz W154 chassis number W154/9 driven in the 1947 Indianapolis 500 by Duke Naylon


The car and location are correct, but the driver still hasn't been identified correctly.  You're close, however...



Dan
"Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending..."

Bender B.Rodrigues

D-type

#9
October 25, 2007, 06:00:58 AM
The 1947 and 1948 entries were signwritten 'Don Lee Special'  so it can't be Chet Miller who drove the car in 1948.

So, it must have been a demontration run at a later date.  So was the driver Phil Hill?
Duncan Rollo

The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.

Tifosi

#10
October 25, 2007, 03:14:23 PM
It is not Phil Hill...



Dan
"Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending..."

Bender B.Rodrigues

Tifosi

#11
October 27, 2007, 05:38:32 AM
...and it was not a demonstration run...


Any more clues and I'll give it away...



Dan
"Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending..."

Bender B.Rodrigues

Tifosi

#12
November 03, 2007, 05:53:35 PM
You're making this one more difficult than it is... :bump:

Dan
"Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending..."

Bender B.Rodrigues

Allan L

#13
November 03, 2007, 06:10:45 PM
Quote from: Tifosi on October 24, 2007, 05:02:26 PM
Quote from: D-type on October 24, 2007, 11:48:32 AM
Mercedes-Benz W154 chassis number W154/9 driven in the 1947 Indianapolis 500 by Duke Naylon

The car and location are correct, but the driver still hasn't been identified correctly.  You're close, however...
Dan
Since there is no driver in the photo, how can we identify him? ;D
Opinionated but sometimes wrong

Tifosi

#14
November 03, 2007, 07:42:06 PM
Sorry...but I figured that if the car and place were correctly ID'd, the driver would be a given.  The car and place HAVE been ID'd, but the driver remains a mystery.  The car raced at the location in this pic more than one year...if that helps...different driver each year...

You guys are all over the correct answer...




Dan
"Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending..."

Bender B.Rodrigues

D-type

#15
November 04, 2007, 12:33:37 PM
What have we got?

The car is a Mercedes-Benz   
The venue is Indianapolis

The W165 for Caracciola never reached Indianapolis so it must be the W154 that Don Lee ran

The driver is not  either of Don Lee's drivers - Duke Naylon (1947) or Chet Miller (1948),

And there the trail runs cold.

After 1948 the car was re-engined so strictly was no longer a Mercedes-Benz but became a Mercedes-Benz based Don Lee Special or similar.
In race condition the 1947 car was signwritten with "Don Lee Special" and a Mobil Pegasus on the scuttle and this signwriting was carried on into 1948.
I have seen photos, but can't find them now, of the car after 1948 when it was more extensively signwritten and I think repainted.
But the car in this photo carries no signwriting.

So I'm totally baffled
Duncan Rollo

The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.

Tifosi

#16
November 04, 2007, 02:25:40 PM
Look closely at the picture...



Dan
"Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending..."

Bender B.Rodrigues

D-type

#17
November 04, 2007, 04:25:33 PM
Well, if I squint a bit, then the race number might be 31 and there might be some flared out signwriting on the scuttle.  If so then it is 1948 when Chet Miller drove it.
Duncan Rollo

The more you learn, the more you realise how little you know.

Tifosi

#18
November 04, 2007, 10:13:01 PM
Quote from: D-type on November 04, 2007, 04:25:33 PM
Well, if I squint a bit, then the race number might be 31 and there might be some flared out signwriting on the scuttle.  If so then it is 1948 when Chet Miller drove it.

You've got it!  I wanted to call attention to the fact that the car wasn't only driven by Duke Nalon, but also Chet Miller...Miller drove the Novi in later years; but it wasn't the only "exotic" machine he drove at Indy.  It's interesting that the car was competetive 10 years after it first appeared on the racing scene.

Sorry you had to squint...


Dan
"Like most of life's problems, this one can be solved with bending..."

Bender B.Rodrigues
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