Solved: 128. of All. - 1949 Monviso Lancia Aprilia Coupe

[Allemano]

Make, model and coachbuilder please! 
(I've slightly  modified the revealing rims)

[Allemano]

moved.

[Anton]

Could this have been a Studebaker Starlight, maybe?

[Allemano]

Though the roofline resembles those Studebakers there's no connection.

[Joao Gois]

Camaro Concept-like wheels 

American?

[Anton]

Photoshop madness, combining Plymouth Prowler wheels, Studebaker roof and Peugeot 203 frontend?

[Allemano]

As I've told before... I did the lousy PS modifications. The wheels got nothing to do with the car, but the original ones would reveal to much!

The car is not American in any way!

[Arunas]

Russian?

[faksta]

It's not Russian... But maybe Australian?

[Allemano]

Neither Russian nor Australian!

[Allan L]

The wheels got nothing to do with the car, but the original ones would reveal to much!

I'm not happy about this - where will it end?
Surely puzzles should be presented with most of the features intact (possibly excepting logos (and just possibly registration numbers, but I'm not sure about that))?

[Allemano]

Remember a puzzle of an Alfa Romeo race car http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=4580.0 which Scudetto was completely removed with Photoshop. I was complaining (maybe a little to much...) about it, but was told it's not against the rules.
So: where's the difference?

[Quiller]

That's the 1949 Lancia Aprilia Coupe by Carrozzeria Monviso

[Allemano]

Yes! If you know it you won't get fooled by this masquerade. 

BTW: I won't use this too much I promise..

[Ray B.]

BTW: I won't use this too much I promise..

I agree with Allan, Allemano.
Don't use it too much, just don't use it at all.

I don't know what was photoshopped in the group puzzle you mentioned. It sure would be interesting if @re posted a picture so we could compare. But I agree: masking the logo and eventually license plates is OK. Changing the whole appearance of the car (like with the wheels) is TOO MUCH. There's no limit if this is allowed.

Besides this, I am curious about this car. You say it has nothing to do with Studebaker. So why has it the greenhouse, windshield and fenders of a 1947-1949 Studebaker? In fact the while body, except the grille, or a very good copy of it?

[Allemano]

Don't use it too much, just don't use it at all.

Ray B.'s rules, I guess!
Infact I really wanted to provoke a little with this car.. How far should we go? Where is the limit?

I don't know what was photoshopped in the group puzzle you mentioned.

Just take a look. It's easy to find (car E)... You're reading so many other things on that forum why not this time?...
If you remove the scudetto from an Alfa Romeo you completely change the expression of that car believe me!

Besides this, I am curious about this car. You say it has nothing to do with Studebaker. So why has it the greenhouse, windshield and fenders of a 1947-1949 Studebaker? In fact the while body, except the grille, or a very good copy of it?

It's not the only Italian car of that time which has these design elements. Boneschi did one similar Lancia, too for instance.

[Ray B.]

I had checked that car E. I just didn't know what a goddam scudetto was. A badge, OK. The limits have been explained in that topic by Otto. Erasing scudettos is within the limits (whatever you think) wheels are out. Not my rules.
I have been at times wanting to provoke with some puzzles too. Sometimes it's funny, sometimes, well...

[Allemano]

Disagree. The Scudetto is not only the badge it's usually a big and most characteristical part of the Alfa Romeo front grille! Some expert...

Hiding or obscuring the badging or other sure giveaways is not cheating. Neither is obscuring the number plate

[Otto Puzzell]

Snickering and sniping aside, it seems Allan and Ray, at least, have expressed this opinion. I agree with them in principal, as well. So, maybe it should be called the Allen, Ray and Otto-the-Admin rule, hmm? After all, the Alfa design elements weren't replaced with a BMW or Rolls grill in the puzzle you reference.

Perhaps we should put this question to our Pro Level puzzlers, utilizing their services as an AutoPuzzles court of final arbitration?

[Allemano]

I played a bit the role of an 'advocat diaboli' here! I'm on myself not a fan of modifying too much! Wanted only to discuss about it.
For me the acceptable limits are the removing/modifying of:
1) badges, name of coachbuilder/manufacturer (not removing the BMW 'kidney' for instance)
2) revealing backgrounds
3) colour pics; colour change to B+W, generating a nostalgic look without changing the shape of the original car.

[Otto Puzzell]

I can't say I disagree with those three points.

All, let's handshake on the following:

OK:

1. Change color, or change to black-and-white or sepiatone.
2. Obscure or delete tell-tale background elements.
3. Obscure or delete badging and number plates.

Not OK:

1. Replace design elements from one vehicle with those of another (wheels, grille, etc.)
2. Photoshop modifications that change the basic configuration of a car (change a coupe to a roadster; make a Tyrelll  P34 a four-wheeled car, etc)
3. Photoshop modifications that place a vehicle in an incorrect time or place.

Agreed?

Meanwhile, here is a selection of Studebaker-inspired cars from other coachbuilders:

[Otto Puzzell]

Noted, and corrected. 

[Allemano]

Agree the rules of hiding/obscuring pictures!
But what about grill modification? (BMW, Alfa Romeo)
Allowed or not?

[Allan L]

I can't say I disagree with those three points.

All, let's handshake on the following:

OK:

1. Change color, or change to black-and-white or sepiatone.
2. Obscure or delete tell-tale background elements.
3. Obscure or delete badging and number plates.

Not OK:

1. Replace design elements from one vehicle with those of another (wheels, grille, etc.)
2. Photoshop modifications that change the basic configuration of a car (change a coupe to a roadster; make a Tyrelll  P34 a four-wheeled car, etc)
3. Photoshop modifications that place a vehicle in an incorrect time or place.

Agreed?

That looks like the way we've played since I joined, so o.k. by me.
There's nothing in those rules that says you have to use a photo that shows the grille (or any other characteristic part), but the view chosen should show what you'd expect to see.

[Joao Gois]

Agree the rules of hiding/obscuring pictures!
But what about grill modification? (BMW, Alfa Romeo)
Allowed or not?

I'd say not. If you don't want to show the car's grille, you can always post a rear o r side pic of the car. I'm OK with deleting badges, letterings, some backgorund bits or B/W. But not with Photoshoping whole design elements!