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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2009 => Topic started by: Arunas on July 15, 2009, 04:41:44 PM

Title: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: Arunas on July 15, 2009, 04:41:44 PM
Know what it is?

Please, respond below and let us know the make of this car.

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Thanks!
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Arunas on July 20, 2009, 05:40:27 AM
Experts'
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Arunas on August 21, 2009, 07:39:57 AM
And this one goes for pros.
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: pnegyesi on August 21, 2009, 09:14:45 AM
I have a feeling that this may be a Lehner from Russia, though I am not sure
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Arunas on August 21, 2009, 11:28:02 AM
To make it easier I'll just say that the company I am looking for is not Russian.
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: faksta on August 22, 2009, 09:17:13 AM
I have a feeling that this may be a Lehner from Russia, though I am not sure

You meant Lessner? I have never heard of any Lehner cars.
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: pnegyesi on August 22, 2009, 10:02:16 AM
Yep, Lessner. I mixed it up with Lohner. Silly me. Anyhow, this is not it.
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 22, 2009, 10:28:37 AM
Otav?
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Arunas on August 22, 2009, 11:02:25 AM
Otav?

Not the name I am looking for..
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 22, 2009, 04:12:15 PM
From USA?
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Arunas on August 22, 2009, 04:24:52 PM
Not from USA
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 22, 2009, 05:36:22 PM
Tractor builder?
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Arunas on August 23, 2009, 01:38:15 AM
According to the name I have (unrelieable source) and information about this make (very good source), it is not mentioned that this manufacturer has built tractors.
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: pnegyesi on August 23, 2009, 04:11:06 AM
Italian?
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Arunas on August 23, 2009, 04:15:29 AM
Italian?

Nope according to my source..
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 23, 2009, 05:49:18 AM
I have a 15-name list, so is this a 6-letter name?
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Arunas on August 23, 2009, 06:01:03 AM
I have a 15-name list, so is this a 6-letter name?

It is!
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 23, 2009, 06:03:33 AM
Jaeger?
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Arunas on August 23, 2009, 06:08:05 AM
No
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 23, 2009, 06:08:43 AM
Thrige? (4 to go...)
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Arunas on August 23, 2009, 06:11:33 AM
No
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 23, 2009, 06:13:34 AM
Odense (3...)
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Arunas on August 23, 2009, 06:14:38 AM
Next..
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 23, 2009, 06:16:21 AM
Gideon (2..)
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Arunas on August 23, 2009, 06:32:21 AM
No
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 23, 2009, 06:34:24 AM
Is it Dansk at all?
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Arunas on August 23, 2009, 06:48:49 AM
Not Danks...
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: ftg3plus4 on August 23, 2009, 08:54:07 AM
Is this Hungarian by chance?
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: pnegyesi on August 23, 2009, 08:58:37 AM
I'd be rather surprised, but let's hear it from Arunas :)
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Arunas on August 23, 2009, 09:03:06 AM
I'd be rather surprised, but let's hear it from Arunas :)

According, to my source it is indeed from Hungary! This could be deadly wrong, so am open for any opinions and corrections from both You and anyone else.
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 23, 2009, 09:09:35 AM
Phonix?
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Arunas on August 23, 2009, 09:12:04 AM
Not this...
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 23, 2009, 09:12:27 AM
... then Csonka.
Title: Re: A#246
Post by: Arunas on August 23, 2009, 09:14:43 AM
... then Csonka.

Yep! That's the name I have for it..

pnegyesi, what do You think?

Could I post some other Hungarian cars that I have for confirmation of their true identities?
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: pnegyesi on August 23, 2009, 09:18:53 AM
Janos Csonka never built such a car. Oh, how I love those fake scale models which the Haris Brothers invaded the world with  >:(
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 23, 2009, 09:19:48 AM
Here's a Csonka:
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=4657.0
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: Arunas on August 23, 2009, 09:26:19 AM
Thank You, PJ!

pnegyesi, what do You mean, by saying "fake"?

Here is a couple of  ??? cars. Hungarian as I have them.
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: pnegyesi on August 23, 2009, 09:30:26 AM
Yes, that's a real Csonka.

For many decades, from the 1950s, the Haris Brothers, Lajos and Otto were the only "experts" on the history of the Hungarian auto industry. They have slightly abused what they have gathered together and added new models, new companies. Fake photos, scale models on never-built cars - they could do everything, because there was no one who would check. Well, this has changed during the last few years and unfortunately there's a lot of bad blood between the Haris brothers and yours truly.
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: pnegyesi on August 23, 2009, 09:34:35 AM
Thank You, PJ!

pnegyesi, what do You mean, by saying "fake"?

Here is a couple of  ??? cars. Hungarian as I have them.

Szamo :) :)
With correct accents: Géza Szám built this postal van in 1902.

And yes, József Bory also built some cars, but his 1908 model looked different from this one. And according to his own documents his first cars were completed in 1908, not in 1907
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 23, 2009, 09:41:53 AM
Here's another view:
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: Arunas on August 23, 2009, 09:43:17 AM
Thanks a lot! :)
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: ftg3plus4 on August 23, 2009, 09:45:13 AM
Darn it! I was thinking Csonka when I said "Hungarian." I should have just gone for it, but it seemed like such a long shot.
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: Arunas on August 23, 2009, 09:46:26 AM
Several other obscure names: Banki-Csonka, Padvinecz-Heilser and Nandor Hora. Do they say anything? :)
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: ftg3plus4 on August 23, 2009, 09:50:07 AM
For many decades, from the 1950s, the Haris Brothers, Lajos and Otto were the only "experts" on the history of the Hungarian auto industry. They have slightly abused what they have gathered together and added new models, new companies. Fake photos, scale models on never-built cars - they could do everything, because there was no one who would check.
Hmmm... why would someone do that?
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: pnegyesi on August 23, 2009, 10:04:10 AM
Haris brothers had to do it. It was thought that during the 2nd World War all correspondence, photos and documents were lots related to the Hungarian auto industry.
When István Zsuppán, the Haris brothers and Ferenc Váradi started collecting materials in the 1950s it soon became evident that there are gaping holes in the history. But the Haris brothers wanted international fame and for that they had to have complete stories so they filled out the gaps by making up stories...

I don't want to go into too much details, but there were monetary rewards as well. Arunas mentioned Nándor Hóra, who was a bicycle racer and later a repairman. He also built a few motorized quadricycles in the very early 1900s. Hóra was lucky enough to survive the 2nd World War. Both István Zsuppán and the Haris brothers visited him and took over some of his archive documents. A few years later the Haris brothers "found" a Hora automobile, a car which never existed.

I am a bit emotional on this as a librarian and an avid researcher of this topic for 17 years now, I am fighting an uphill battle to clean up the history of the Hungarian auto industry.

Please don't ask me about the Hungarian Museum of Transport and their role. That'd bring you another tirade  :-X
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: pnegyesi on August 23, 2009, 10:06:12 AM
Several other obscure names: Banki-Csonka, Padvinecz-Heilser and Nandor Hora. Do they say anything? :)

Dónát Bánki and János Csonka "invented" the spray carburetor in 1893, but I am beginning to have doubts about them being first on this field. BTW is anyone living near London?

Podvinecz and Heisler was the predecessor of MÁG, which built cars like the Magotax, Magomobil, Magosix and Magosupersix. P&H built a few cars between 1905-1912.
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: alecwolf on August 24, 2009, 02:16:01 PM
Haris brothers had to do it. It was thought that during the 2nd World War all correspondence, photos and documents were lots related to the Hungarian auto industry.
When István Zsuppán, the Haris brothers and Ferenc Váradi started collecting materials in the 1950s it soon became evident that there are gaping holes in the history. But the Haris brothers wanted international fame and for that they had to have complete stories so they filled out the gaps by making up stories...

I don't want to go into too much details, but there were monetary rewards as well. Arunas mentioned Nándor Hóra, who was a bicycle racer and later a repairman. He also built a few motorized quadricycles in the very early 1900s. Hóra was lucky enough to survive the 2nd World War. Both István Zsuppán and the Haris brothers visited him and took over some of his archive documents. A few years later the Haris brothers "found" a Hora automobile, a car which never existed.

I am a bit emotional on this as a librarian and an avid researcher of this topic for 17 years now, I am fighting an uphill battle to clean up the history of the Hungarian auto industry.

Please don't ask me about the Hungarian Museum of Transport and their role. That'd bring you another tirade  :-X

As i remember there were even fake persons in the hungarian automobile history. Just like the collective farm peasant Francois Szisz...  :) (But he was not the Haris brothers creature.)  :)
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 24, 2009, 02:22:05 PM
Please don't ask me about the Hungarian Museum of Transport and their role. That'd bring you another tirade :-X

I won't....but fell free to share what you'd like  ;).
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: pnegyesi on August 24, 2009, 02:28:14 PM

As i remember there were even fake persons in the hungarian automobile history. Just like the collective farm peasant Francois Szisz...  :) (But he was not the Haris brothers creature.)  :)

No, the fake Szisz was brought to us by György Rózsa, a sports journalist turned to bard who sang beautiful tales on past events...

As for the Museum of Transport, let's just say that there are people out there who'd like the museum to be erased for the sins some of the people there committed. In 1959 there was a report on the auto collection of the Museum featuring a few images, including one on a Rolls-Royce in very bad condition. By the time the basic inventory was laid out in 1970, the Rolls-Royce disappeared.
In the late 1980s there were rare Ikarus buses, Csepel trucks to be saved. And the Museum said: "we don't have enough space for these vehicles. We can only collect scale models" and so these buses and trucks were destroyed.
Not to mention the rare powertrain of a cca 1st World War Latil FWD (!) truck, which rotted in the open for two decades.
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 24, 2009, 02:51:25 PM
That sucks...
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: alecwolf on August 24, 2009, 03:54:35 PM
Sad story, it's sure...
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: D-type on August 24, 2009, 05:31:32 PM
Several other obscure names: Banki-Csonka, Padvinecz-Heilser and Nandor Hora. Do they say anything? :)

Dónát Bánki and János Csonka "invented" the spray carburetor in 1893, but I am beginning to have doubts about them being first on this field. BTW is anyone living near London?
Podvinecz and Heisler was the predecessor of MÁG, which built cars like the Magotax, Magomobil, Magosix and Magosupersix. P&H built a few cars between 1905-1912.
Yes, I live fairly near.
Title: Re: A#246 Solved Csonka
Post by: pnegyesi on February 28, 2019, 09:00:50 AM
FYI, this is the 1-cylinder car of Csonka, which the Haris Brothers based their scale model on. I'd say they were very far off the mark.