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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2009 => Topic started by: faksta on August 27, 2009, 09:45:37 AM

Title: Factory vs Specials - Solved by vdp. D-Type, pnegyesi, 250gto and Paul Jaray
Post by: faksta on August 27, 2009, 09:45:37 AM
Hi! Here is another group puzzle dedicated to racing. Here you can find two groups of pictures, ten cars in each. The first group contains photographs of cars built by well known automotive companies for racing using their own engines, most of these cars are well known and recognizable. The second one consists of photos of racing specials built around engines produced by the companies in a first group, this time the cars are more obscure, but some of them are not so hard either. The aim is to find all ten pairs and to name both cars in it, one point for each pair. Note that the engine may be not specifically the same, but just of the same make.
The points will be awarded upon completion.

Standings:

1. GAZ SG-1 (Pobeda Sport) - Vana Toomas (#6) - vdp
2. Jaguar C-Type - Biondetti Ferrari-Jaguar (#3) - D-Type
3. Lancia D23 - SAM-Lancia 1500 by Edward Wroclawski (#7) - pnegyesi
4. OSCA S750 - OSCA MT4 Spezial by Wolfgang Seidel (#9) - pnegyesi
5. Bristol 450 - Tojeiro-Bristol (#1) - 250gto
6. Fiat 508 C MM - Marsala-Fiat 1100S (#8) - Paul Jaray
7. Alfa Romeo 6C 3000 CM - JK Sport - Alfa Romeo (#4) - pnegyesi
8. BMW 700 RS - Holbein HH47 (#2) - 250gto
9. Porsche 718 W-RS - Trenkel Porsche Eigenbau (#10) - 250gto
10. Monopole-Panhard X84 - P.E. Barchetta (#5)* - pnegyesi

*Appeared to be two specials - my bad, read page #2 post #1.

Factory cars:
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on August 27, 2009, 09:48:20 AM
Specials:
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: Otto Puzzell on August 27, 2009, 02:12:23 PM
Neat puzzle idea! :)
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: vdp on August 27, 2009, 02:23:17 PM
I've got one - factory car #1 matches with special #6 - both have GAZ M20 engines.
The factory car is a Pobeda-Sport, a GAZ M20 with steamlined racing body - you can easily recognise it by the front doors, and there is also a stock Pobeda on the background.
The special is Vana Toomas - a Formula-1 car built in Estonia. Yes, it was actually a Formula-1 car according to the Soviet classification of that time. It was built by Raimond Esner 1957-59 and raced by it's creator 1959-60, after that sold to Ludvig Kõrge who replaced the original Pobeda engine with a GAZ 21 unit and raced it with some success 1960-67. The car has been destroyed decades ago.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on August 27, 2009, 03:05:00 PM
Right! First pair is done. You will get your point after all the pairs will be uncovered.
I thought Vana Toomas will be among the long-livers, and it's gone first. Was it so easy for you? ;)
And thanks, Otto! :)
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on August 29, 2009, 06:28:54 AM
Let's attract more people :)
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: 75america on August 29, 2009, 07:08:45 AM
Alfa Romeo 6C 3000 CM by Colli (FC07) and a Nardi with an 6C 2300 Engine (SC04)
Both have Alfa Romeo engines
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on August 29, 2009, 07:35:56 AM
Almost right, but SC04 is not Nardi.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: 250gto on August 29, 2009, 12:52:25 PM
FC09 is a Porsche 718 and its partner is SC10,  a Porsche Special built by Richard Trenkel.
FC05 is a Bristol 450 at Le Mans which has the same engine as SC01 which is a Tojeiro-Bristol
FC08 is a BMW 700 RS and SC02 is a Holbein HH47 which is also BMW engined (in its case a 328)
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: D-type on August 29, 2009, 03:19:57 PM
FC02 is a 1952 C-Type Jaguar, SC03 is the Biondetti-Jaguar Special
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on August 29, 2009, 03:30:21 PM
Right! All four pairs.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: 75america on August 30, 2009, 04:28:33 AM
Quote from: faksta on August 29, 2009, 07:35:56 AM
Almost right, but SC04 is not Nardi.

Can you clear something up.

Am I looking in the complete wrong direction with my 'Nardi' answer.
Or are we indeed talking about the '1936 Nardi 6C 2300 # 55076' which, is although known as a Nardi by many, is in fact a car that was made much later ('60-70) in Eastern Germany but with an original Alfa Romeo 6C 2300 engine.  Unfortunately I do not know the 'brand' of this car.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on August 30, 2009, 04:47:36 AM
SC04 was not Nardi at all, but used an Alfa Romeo engine. Thus, although you got the pair right, I'm still looking for the name of the special.

P.S. I think I have found your source of information about this car, but as far as I can say on that page they couldn't yet identify this car.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on August 30, 2009, 10:00:56 AM
Hunt is open to everyone.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: 75america on August 30, 2009, 10:11:11 AM
Are FC04 and SC08 are forming a pair?
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on August 30, 2009, 10:18:05 AM
Sorry, but no, they don't.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 17, 2009, 10:28:13 AM
fc06 & sc08
Fiat 508 CMM 1938  &   Fiat 1100 Marsala ex-Fiat 1100 Sutera (by Autotrasformazioni Trinacria)
fc07   & sc04 
Alfa Romeo 6c 3000 CM  &   Nardi 2300 Alfa Romeo Special
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: DynaMike on September 17, 2009, 10:38:58 AM
Fc10 and sc5 are a pair, but I cannot find the special  :(
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 17, 2009, 10:45:21 AM
Quote from: 75america on August 30, 2009, 04:28:33 AM
Quote from: faksta on August 29, 2009, 07:35:56 AM
Almost right, but SC04 is not Nardi.

Can you clear something up.

Am I looking in the complete wrong direction with my 'Nardi' answer.
Or are we indeed talking about the '1936 Nardi 6C 2300 # 55076' which, is although known as a Nardi by many, is in fact a car that was made much later ('60-70) in Eastern Germany but with an original Alfa Romeo 6C 2300 engine. Unfortunately I do not know the 'brand' of this car.

I only read it now...
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on September 17, 2009, 03:50:31 PM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on September 17, 2009, 10:28:13 AM
fc06 & sc08
Fiat 508 CMM 1938  &   Fiat 1100 Marsala ex-Fiat 1100 Sutera (by Autotrasformazioni Trinacria)

Sure!

Quotefc07   & sc04 
Alfa Romeo 6c 3000 CM  &   Nardi 2300 Alfa Romeo Special

The same situation as with 75america's guess previously - the pair is right, but the special is not Nardi. His guess about Germany was, well, closer.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on September 17, 2009, 03:52:14 PM
Quote from: DynaMike on September 17, 2009, 10:38:58 AM
Fc10 and sc5 are a pair, but I cannot find the special  :(

That's right. I have seen this special on a couple of pages in the Internet. This photo was as well taken from the net.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on September 25, 2009, 06:31:12 AM
In case someone is waiting 'two points for a pair' offer, I highly doubt that will happen :P
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: pnegyesi on September 29, 2009, 01:17:09 AM
fc07   & sc04
Alfa Romeo 6c 3000 CM & Julius Kubinsky's Alfa Romeo 2500-powered special from Czechoslovakia from 1950. I can't read Czech but as I understand there were 3 cars built, two based around BMW and a 3rd with an Alfa Rome powertrain.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on September 29, 2009, 07:45:39 AM
Yes! The car was called JK Sport, and the BMW engined ones too.
Three pairs left and then there is a point giveaway  ;).
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: pnegyesi on September 30, 2009, 12:17:51 PM
fc10 and sc05 are indeed a pair:
fc10 is a Panhard Monopole 610 cc from 1950
sc05 is a rarity from Portugal: the Panhard-engined PE by  Produtos Estrela from 1953. The company was set up  by Adérito Parente.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on September 30, 2009, 02:55:38 PM
Yes!
Here I must correct myself as the 'factory' car is indeed a special - Monopole - Panhard X84 from 1950. In Le Mans results some Panhard engined cars are recorded under their proper names, but some are still 'Panhard Dyna'. I have found out that this one was an X84, but didn't look deep enough to realize it was actually a Monopole. So here we eventually have a pair of two specials, sorry :)

Nevertheless, two pairs are left.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: pnegyesi on October 03, 2009, 01:57:10 AM
I can do the pairing:
fc04 is a Lancia, probably Aurelia and sc09 is a Lancia-based special probably from Germany
fc03 is an Osca S750 from the 1957 Millie Miglia and sc07 is an OSCA-engined special.

So anyone would like to finish this :)?
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on October 03, 2009, 02:26:04 PM
Well, that's mostly right, but sc09 is not from Germany. Still this is not yet enough to award you the points, sorry - we need the specials names (for sc07 I have only the inventors name, possibly the car has never had a 'proper' name).
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: pnegyesi on October 04, 2009, 12:40:55 PM
sc09 is it from Poland?
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on October 04, 2009, 12:52:53 PM
Exactly.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: pnegyesi on October 04, 2009, 12:55:59 PM
Adam Małochleb?
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on October 04, 2009, 01:00:57 PM
No, not him. I'd say, more known.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: pnegyesi on October 04, 2009, 01:16:57 PM
Marian Wierzba?
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on October 04, 2009, 01:39:20 PM
Not Wierzba also.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: pnegyesi on October 04, 2009, 02:31:52 PM
Julian Łączyński?
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on October 04, 2009, 02:47:00 PM
No, sorry, still no.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: pnegyesi on October 04, 2009, 03:01:20 PM
Well, if you tell me that the image is from the web,I will keep digging

As for the OSCA, I have a book on American specialist racing cars and another on British racing specials. I couldn't find either of them.
So can you give us some help? Is this image also from the web?
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on October 04, 2009, 03:28:23 PM
Yes, both images are from the web, and even from the same place. OSCA special is neither American nor British, so don't waste your time looking through those books :)
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: pnegyesi on October 05, 2009, 02:13:29 AM
I see that you built the majority of this puzzle from that "place". But still I couldn't find either the Lancia or the OSCA special there. Well, reluctantly I have to let this puzzle go
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on October 05, 2009, 02:38:20 AM
Actually only these two photos come from there  :)

Summarizing it up:
fc04 - Lancia (which?) - sc09 - special from Poland (whose?)
fc03 - OSCA S750 - sc07 - special from European country (whose?)
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: pnegyesi on October 05, 2009, 04:09:03 AM
Please, can you lock this topic for me for 3 hours?

fc04 is a Lancia D24, while SC09 is: #22 SAM-Lancia 1500 (Edward Wroclawski).
SAM in this case means a self-built car.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on October 05, 2009, 04:13:19 AM
OK, I think it would be fair since you have almost found it all. I see you've found the source :) Although you seem to be the only one in charge now.
Edward Wroclawski's SAM - Lancia 1500 is right, of course. As for Lancia itself, could you be more precise? You're extremely close, but it's not a D24.

Locked for 3 hours.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: pnegyesi on October 05, 2009, 04:16:54 AM
Lancia may be a D23, I am not a big expert on Lancia...
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on October 05, 2009, 04:17:56 AM
D23 it is. Confusion is understandable - they're so similar :)
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: pnegyesi on October 05, 2009, 04:30:34 AM
That is sorted. Great.

Can't find the OSCA though. Is this an Italian special?
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on October 05, 2009, 04:41:25 AM
No, it is not Italian. It is from a country where their domestic donor cars were far more popular than Italian ones.
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: pnegyesi on October 05, 2009, 05:54:50 AM
Boy, it is easy when you know where you have to look!

This is Wolfgang Seidel's specialbodied OSCA MT4
Title: Re: Factory vs Specials
Post by: faksta on October 05, 2009, 06:04:16 AM
Yes, done!

Now form a line for the points, gentlemen.

Points awarded.