AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!

You think you know them all?
1 point for each correct ID.
1 point for the bonus car.

Be quick, I'll move this to the expert, very soon!

Give at least one evening...
The wide part seems to be based on a Fiat Topolino, so it is my stuff.

Just from my desk, without using any book support and only my memory, I try with #2: is it a Marinella Testadoro by Casa dell'Auto?

#6: a Fiat 1100-based sport made by Antimo Minutolo?

Wow, you just picked up one of the hardest ones!
#6 - Minutolo Fiat 1100 Sport  als15
We already had the Testadoro:
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=4143.25
but it's not here.

Of course the Testadoro is smaller... This is a sport made in 1949 by Officine Elettromeccaniche Vincenzo Leone in Turin, Fiat 1100 engine and tubular chassis derived by Cisitalia, whose development ing. Leone contributed in the previous years.

How is the rule for the bonus? Can I answer or have to wait until all are cleared?

#2 is correct!
I consider it a bonus since I think it will be quite easy.
You can guess it freely.

Ok. So it's the CFM 750, made in Mestre (near Venice) in 1949 using a war-scrap VW Kubelwagen engine with reduced displacement.

#2 -           Leone Fiat 1100 Sport        als15
#6 -           Minutolo Fiat 1100 Sport    als15
Bonus-    CFM 750 Sport                      als15

The CFM was not easy, but it is featured in the cover of a well known book, 'La Sport e i suoi Artigiani', that's why it was less obscure.   

And this is indeed the reason why I know it even if it isn't Fiat-based.  ;)

So it seems I've got three more points...

You have, but the group puzzles ...get paid...at the end!

To the Experts!

Scores so far:

#2 -           Leone Fiat 1100 Sport        als15
#6 -           Minutolo Fiat 1100 Sport    als15
Bonus-    CFM 750 Sport                      als15

#5 is the very first Nardi-Danese - and that's both Nardi and Danese standing next to it!
#1: Fortunati Sport 1950
#8: Vendrame Sport 1938
#9: Ortolini Sport 750 (1949)

Correct, can you name it?
Locked for you till your next reply...
(consider that it's the first, so it's very young...)

So No5 is locked. I hope not the whole topic is locked!

No9: 1949 Ortolani Sport, powered by a 750 cc engine

Correct!
only #5 is locked for Carnut.
So far:
#2 -           Leone Fiat 1100 Sport        als15
#5 -           Nardi-Danese  ??             Carnut
#6 -           Minutolo Fiat 1100 Sport    als15
#9 -           Ortolani 750 Sport 1949     pnegyesi
Bonus-     CFM 750 Sport                      als15

etc8 is the Vendrame Sport from 1938

etc7 is probably a Giannini Sport from 1951

etc7 is a Stanga Sport from 1956

Quote from: Paul Jaray on October 01, 2009, 04:47:46 AM
Correct, can you name it?
Locked for you till your next reply...
(consider that it's the first, so it's very young...)

Nardi-Danese 750 BMW?

And don't forget my identification of #1 as a Fortunati Sport 1950!
I was busy editing my post whilst pnegyesi was posting so unfortunately I seem to have missed out on the others!

these cars are racing again!
I have to check the time of your replies (and the edited versions) to understand who found what!
Tell me if I go wrong:
#1 - Fortunati Sport 1950                                    Carnut  (how did you get this!!)
#2 - Leone Fiat 1100 Sport                                   als15
#5 - Nardi-Danese Baby Sport 750                Carnut     
#6 - Minutolo Fiat 1100 Sport                               als15
#9 - Ortolani 750 Sport 1949                        pnegyesi

Gentlemen, you are amazing. Carnut and Pnegyesi found #8 at few seconds (16!) one from the other. I'm sure tha both of them knew it and Pnegyesi (who arrived 2nd) deserves another canche: this car was indeed made by Vendrame on a Fiat-base, but the engine is missing and most important, the person the car is named after!

#7 not a Stanga
#8 Locked for Carnut and Pnegyesi

Vendrame: Tullio Vendrame who worked in Mareno di Piave (Treviso) Basis is a Fiat 500A bored out to 626 cc

Vendrame is correct, but he made the bodywork for the cars prepared by another man. I'm looking for his name.
(One of his cars run the original Mille Miglia in the 50s)

OK, I made a quick research and it seems that this one is indeed a car with bodywork by Vendrame and prepared by himself.
I thought it was one of the cars that he dressed for Zanussi, but it's not one of those.
Sorry about that.  :-\

#1 - Fortunati Sport 1950                                    Carnut  (how did you get this!!)
#2 - Leone Fiat 1100 Sport                                  als15
#5 - Nardi-Danese Baby Sport 750                      Carnut     
#6 - Minutolo Fiat 1100 Sport                               als15
#8 - Vendrame fiat 500a sport 1938                   Carnut & pnegyesi
#9 - Ortolani 750 Sport 1949                                  pnegyesi

Yes, all I could find out about the Vendrame was that it is a "Vendrame Fiat Sport 650"

You will get a point both, you being the 1st to name it and pnegyesi for diggin more and finding the details.
I found a pic of the Zanussi and it is slightly different...

I think pnegyesi was right first time with #7.
It's a Giannini Sport 750 from 1951?

Giannini is not the name I'm looking for, but the engine is a Giannini one.

And would #3 be a Fiordelisi Sport 1100 from 1949?

Quote from: Paul Jaray on October 01, 2009, 09:40:54 AM
Giannini is not the name I'm looking for, but the engine is a Giannini one.

So it must therefore be a Giaur 500?  Or failing that a Giaur 750!

Hmmmm, I have a book on Giannini but this car is not in there. And I have never seen a Giaur like this.  So how about Taraschi?

Was just going to suggest that myself!
Taraschi 750 Sport is a possibility!

#3 Not a Fiordelisi
#7 Not a Giaur-Taraschi-Urania.

So is #7 a Stanguellini?  750 Sport again?!

#7 Not a Stanguellini...

Quote from: Paul Jaray on October 01, 2009, 12:14:31 PM
#7 Not a Stanguellini...

Bandini then?!

That Giannini-powered thing, can that be the Grousset special?

#7 not a Bandini or Grousset

#3 Minardi 750 (1948)
#11 Siata 750 (Fiat Topolino chassis, body by Motto)

#3 Minardi MG75 1948  is correct.
#11 is not a Siata...

etc4 looks like Fiat Gilco 1100 Sport MM - 1949

Quote from: pnegyesi on October 01, 2009, 02:49:34 PM
etc4 looks like Fiat Gilco 1100 Sport MM - 1949

Very good!
This is indeed a Gilco Fiat 1100 S, that raced the Mille Miglia in 1951, 1954 and 1955 in its siluro configuration designed by Sergio Mantovani and built by the Bartolomeo Barbero's Carrozzeria (CBC).
The car was later prepared in this barchetta configuration for the 1956 Mille Miglia. The car was first registered in 1949 and technically speaking it's not a Gilco, since Gilco was a tubular chassis-builder (thanks als15 for reminding me that).
 
#1 -            Fortunati Sport 1950                                    Carnut 
#2 -            Leone Fiat 1100 Sport                                  als15
#3 -            Minardi MG75 1948                                       als15
#4 -            Gilco 1100 S Mantovani 1956                      pnegyesi
#5 -            Nardi-Danese Baby Sport 750                      Carnut     
#6 -            Minutolo Fiat 1100 Sport                               als15
#8 -            Vendrame fiat 500a sport 1938                   Carnut & pnegyesi
#9 -            Ortolani 750 Sport 1949                                  pnegyesi
Bonus-     CFM 750 Sport                                                  als15

etc7 is really tricky, but I have every reason to believe that I found it: MarDal 750 from 1950 by Umberto Marzotto and Nicolo dal Moro. It used a Giannini tuned 748 cc engine, Gilco parts and body made by Fontana di Padova.

This puzzle would be so much easier with often-mentioned the book on Etcetrinis. Now it is up to me and my best friend, Google, to find these beautiful creatures  ::)

You got it!
About the book:
It's a great book indeed, but it won't help much in this puzzle: some of these are not reported (Fortunati,others unguessed), many of these are in a different configuration and you can recognize them if you already knew them (Nardi, Gilco, MarDal) and other are taken in recent events so the pictures are different from the usual period ones.
You are doing an incredible work, since I was sure that this one was a very hard one. The left ones are the easiest (all but one) in my opinion and when they'll be discovered you'll see!

#1 -            Fortunati Sport 1950                                    Carnut 
#2 -            Leone Fiat 1100 Sport                                  als15
#3 -            Minardi MG75 1948                                       als15
#4 -            Gilco 1100 S Mantovani 1956                      pnegyesi
#5 -            Nardi-Danese Baby Sport 750                      Carnut     
#6 -            Minutolo Fiat 1100 Sport                               als15
#7 -           MarDal Fiat 750 Sport 1951                            pnegyesi
#8 -            Vendrame fiat 500a sport 1938                   Carnut & pnegyesi
#9 -            Ortolani 750 Sport 1949                                  pnegyesi
Bonus-     CFM 750 Sport                                                  als15

Time to move it for the pros?

Do you think the remaining three are available on the web or do we have to focus on books instead?

Quote from: Paul Jaray on October 02, 2009, 05:31:34 AM
#7 -           MarDal Fiat 750 Sport 1951                            pnegyesi

:doh: (Although it still looks different from what I've seen on the attached picture)

#7 looked much more like a Gilco to me, I must say.
They all seem to have used pretty much the same body in those days with minor differences!

Quote from: pnegyesi on October 05, 2009, 07:27:01 AM
Do you think the remaining three are available on the web or do we have to focus on books instead?

All these pictures comes from magazines or books, (not that book 'La Sport e i suoi artigiani') but the hardest ones are over.
Only one of these can be a bit obscure, but other 2 are well, well known.

Could #12 be a Bandini 1100?

This was my basis for identifying the Mardal:
(http://www.maranello.cc/All.Ferraris/images/0834/dsc-2242-1.jpg)

There's no wind-deflector aerodynamic thing behind the driver - but many other specials had that.

#12 not a Bandini

#12 is very familiar looking. It was made by quite a famous among etceterini make?

No 11 looks like a Moretti 600 cabriolet turned into a barchetta.

#12 is the less known of the 3, but I found a pic of this very car in a very well known site.
#11 not a Moretti...

Here is the basis for me saying I thought #7 looks like a Gilco.
Is the book wrong (as they have been known to be...) or is it really a Gilco?
Why is it so similar to the Mardal?

Still trying to get my computer to download the actual picture acc my last post rather than the file!

In the meantime:

Might #10 be a Lancia Ardea Pasqualini?
And is #12 a Becherini Sport?

#10 not Pasqualini or Lancia
#12 not Becherini

The MarDal has a Gilco chassis, a Giannini G1 engine and a Fontana body, under one book it's under the Marzotto name (!)

That's because MarDal means 'Marzotto - Dal Moro'.

Yes, but you can find several names for the same car, this one has a Giannini badge, but it's not a Giannini, a Fontana body, etc...

That's a typical situation with etceterini :D

Quote from: Paul Jaray on October 06, 2009, 12:59:26 PM
#10 not Pasqualini or Lancia

Must say you have surprised me there PJ!
Below are pictures of your #7 and a Pasqualini and they do look identical to me.  I've filled in the grille a bit on the Pasqualini for comparison but check out the shape of the grille opening; the headlight position; the badge; the bonnet scoop and bonnet opening; the air outlet behind the front wheel arch; the depth of the door opening; the wheelarches; the windscreen. They're all identical!

If you say it's not a Pasqualini then it's not a Pasqualini but whatever it is they both seem to have used the same body!

The car in my picture is the same as yours, same plate number.
The badge on my car is different, and it's a very well known one.
I read my book and there's not a Pasqualin like this (but not a Stanguellini either but there are so many of those...).
There is indeed another car, by Parisotto, who built similar cars starting from Pasqualin's 750 chassis.
You get one point for finding this car, but I'm not sure about its identity now...

This car, with a full name: Paqualin Parisotto is said to be based on a Lancia Ardea and features a 900 cc engine. It was entered into the 2007 Le Mitche Sport a Bassano event by Giorgio and Silvia Bandini.

Here's another Pasqualin, which is quite different - it is based on a Fiat and features a Giannini 750 cc engine:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2432/3593542850_18df8d3469.jpg)

Your picture shows Armando Pasqualin at the Catania-Etna in 1950.

#1 -            Fortunati Sport 1950                                    Carnut 
#2 -            Leone Fiat 1100 Sport                                  als15
#3 -            Minardi MG75 1948                                       als15
#4 -            Gilco 1100 S Mantovani 1956                      pnegyesi
#5 -            Nardi-Danese Baby Sport 750                      Carnut     
#6 -            Minutolo Fiat 1100 Sport                               als15
#7 -           MarDal Fiat 750 Sport 1951                            pnegyesi
#8 -            Vendrame fiat 500a sport 1938                   Carnut & pnegyesi
#9 -            Ortolani 750 Sport 1949                                  pnegyesi
#10 -          Pasqualin Ardea Sport (or a Stanguellini?)  Carnut
#11 -          ???  (you'll be surprise)
#12 -           ??? (this car is on the net)
Bonus-     CFM 750 Sport                                                  als15

Wheels of #11 look very Siata-ish, but the grille looks more Stanguellini..
Is it a Siata?

Not a Siata

Maybe #12 is a Siata then!
How about a Daina Gran Sport 1500?

#11 has a big clue in the pic.
#12 not a Siata...

Quote from: Paul Jaray on October 07, 2009, 08:03:24 AM
#11 has a big clue in the pic.

Is it a Stanguellini?

Not a Stanguellini.

#11: quite sure it's based on a Fiat 500 Topolino: sport rims like those were very diffused on this type of car. If the clue is the emblem, his triangular shape in that time would suggest Monviso, but it maken't so much sense.

I try another crazy hypotesys, because I remember I've already seen it but can't say where: first barchetta made by Ferruccio Lamborghini?

 :applause: :applause:

That's it, the first car by Ferruccio Lamborghini himself, reported as an Ala d'Oro, but built by him as his son discovered after a long research. This is a recreation made by him according to the period pictures.
This car raced the 1948 Mille Miglia with the numbers visible in the pic, with Lamborghini at the wheel.
Ferruccio modified another Topolino in 1947, but was sold to build this one. The 1st car was not an original creation, but a slightly modified Topolino.

Is #12 a Fiat?
Maybe an 1100 Spyder with bodywork by Touring or Zagato?

#12 is a Fiat 1100 but not by Touring nor Zagato.

Quote from: Paul Jaray on October 08, 2009, 02:21:42 PM
#12 is a Fiat 1100 but not by Touring nor Zagato.

So I don't get the point until I say who built it?
How long have I got?!

Actually it looks to me like the Fiat 1100B Sport RAOR Special from 1949.  Same age as me!!  Looks better though...

You mean this RAOR?

Well done!
3 mebers for 13 cars...

And here's your points:
#1 -            Fortunati Sport 1950                                          Carnut 
#2 -            Leone Fiat 1100 Sport                                        als15
#3 -            Minardi MG75 1948                                            als15
#4 -            Gilco 1100 S Mantovani 1956                             pnegyesi
#5 -            Nardi-Danese Baby Sport 750                            Carnut      
#6 -            Minutolo Fiat 1100 Sport                                     als15
#7 -           MarDal Fiat 750 Sport 1951                                pnegyesi
#8 -            Vendrame fiat 500a sport 1938                           Carnut & pnegyesi
#9 -            Ortolani 750 Sport 1949                                         pnegyesi
#10 -          Pasqualin Ardea Sport (or a Stanguellini?)          Carnut
#11 -          Lamborghini Fiat Topolino Barchetta 1948         als15
#12 -          RAOR Fiat 1100B Sport 1949                          Carnut
Bonus-     CFM 750 Sport                                                    als15


Als15:   5 points
Carnut: 5 ponts
Pnegyesi: 4 points

Considering that I love etceterinis, but I really don't know them in-depth, I shouldn't be ashamed of myself :)

Quote from: pnegyesi on October 09, 2009, 03:20:23 PM
Considering that I love etceterinis, but I really don't know them in-depth, I shouldn't be ashamed of myself :)

4 identifications is nothing to be ashamed of at all!

I choose some obscure ones and pictures that are not available online, so even a single identification was a great achievement!
I thought it was going to last longer....

Just too much of a challenge for it to last, PJ!

Here you are #5, 8 and 12 seen yesterday at the Padova's Fair:
About the RAOR, I met the owner who told me more about this unic car (it raced the Targa Florio), its builder and its story.
I told him about Autopuzzles, and the recent interest about his car and He said that we will have soon more info about.
(BTW: While I was talking with him, I discovered that I joined the military in the barracks that were once under his comman! I live in Grosseto, the barracks are in Rome and I met him in Padova! Spend few seconds on google maps to take a look at the location of these places...)

#10 is definetly a Pasqualin.
#12 is not a RAOR. The story is quite delicate and there's a lawsuit in progress too. I can't tell more, but I will reveal it all once it will be terminated.