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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2009 => Topic started by: Paul Jaray on November 15, 2009, 07:55:32 AM

Title: Solved -PJ274- Adams Eight 35-40HP Touring 1906 & Mercer Raceabout 1915
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 15, 2009, 07:55:32 AM
This one should not be too hard:
Here you are 2 cars, not too obscure at all.
3 points for the correct identification of the car + the connection between the 2.
2 point for identifying the 2 cars.
1 point for identifying only the connection.
I'll reply each guess with a clue.
This one will be soon moved to the Pro section with a BIG clue...


Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 15, 2009, 09:38:35 AM
Have a go!
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 15, 2009, 05:58:03 PM
QuoteI'll reply each guess with a clue.
More guesses, more clues...
QuoteThis one will be soon moved to the Pro section with a BIG clue...
and then will be a matter of time...
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: faksta on November 16, 2009, 02:37:21 AM
The cars seem to be of different makers?
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 16, 2009, 05:10:51 AM
Different makes and different countries.
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: jotage21 on November 16, 2009, 07:43:52 AM
The first one: Ajax?
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 16, 2009, 09:57:45 AM
Not Ajax, but one car is from the USA.
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Arunas on November 16, 2009, 03:18:25 PM
Do both cars have the bodyworks built by the same builder?
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 16, 2009, 04:55:44 PM
Not the same bodywork builder, or engine\chassis\whatsoever common builder...
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 18, 2009, 01:32:49 PM
...free for all!
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 18, 2009, 01:33:53 PM
Both cars can be found on the web.
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Allemano on November 18, 2009, 02:26:06 PM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on November 18, 2009, 01:33:53 PM
Both cars can be found on the web.
Is that the connection?
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 18, 2009, 02:30:40 PM
 :doh:
I just revealed the solution!
Ok, no panic, I found another connection.
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: João on November 18, 2009, 03:15:26 PM
V8-V16 engine from the same builder?
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 18, 2009, 03:33:59 PM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on November 16, 2009, 04:55:44 PM
Not the same bodywork builder, or engine\chassis\whatsoever common builder...
These cars have not the same builder or engine or designer or nationality or year of construction.
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: João on November 18, 2009, 03:49:21 PM
Picture 2 - They were brothers??
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 18, 2009, 03:59:41 PM
I do not know but that is a very famous car, and if I had choose another version, it was solved in a flash...
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: pnegyesi on November 19, 2009, 02:45:31 PM
First V8-engined cars in their country?

First one is the British Adams V8 tourer from 1906 and I suspect the 2nd is the American Hewitt
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 19, 2009, 02:51:13 PM
The connection is not in the engine, or in the body , or in the technical specs of this car.
One car is correct, the other one is not, and it's an easy one: look at the shape of the radiator...
Another clue: the connection is not in the cars...
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 20, 2009, 03:54:48 PM
Different makes and different countries
One car is from USA
Not the same bodywork builder, or engine\chassis\whatsoever common builder
Not the same builder or engine or designer or nationality or year of construction
One is a very famous car
The connection is not in the engine, or in the body , or in the technical specs of this car
QuoteFirst one is the British Adams V8 tourer from 1906 and I suspect the 2nd is the American Hewitt
One car is correct, the other one is not, and it's an easy one: look at the shape of the radiator...
the connection is not in the cars...
One car is already identified, the other is a well known one...I'll post a definitive clue when both cars will be found...
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Joao Gois on November 20, 2009, 09:13:38 PM
Given theclue on the shape of thr radiator grille, the secon can only be a Bugatti.
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Allan L on November 21, 2009, 03:46:55 AM
Quote from: Joao Gois on November 20, 2009, 09:13:38 PM
Given theclue on the shape of thr radiator grille, the secon can only be a Bugatti.
Got to be the only shaft-drive Bugatti with semi-elliptic rear springs in that case. ???
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 21, 2009, 04:45:42 AM
...no Bugattis here...
Pnegyesi identified one car...the remaining one is much easier.
...I'd like few more guesses before the final clue...
The unidentified car is like the Isotta Fraschini Tipo 8, or the Duesenberg Model J....a model that is very known and the masterpiece of that make...
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: pnegyesi on November 21, 2009, 05:25:44 AM
2nd car is a Mercer Raceabout from 1915.
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 21, 2009, 05:38:54 AM
correct....
Since you are the one who found also the other, 2 points for you.
Now which is the connection between an Adams Eight 35-40HP Touring car from 1906 and a Mercer Raceabout from 1915?
I already wrote that the connection is not in the cars...
I have to leave now, see you tonight....
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Ray B. on November 21, 2009, 06:01:23 AM
Mercer-Adams Funeral Service, Bethany, Oklahoma.
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 21, 2009, 02:28:32 PM
Not that...
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 21, 2009, 06:07:14 PM
There is a particular _____ that connect Mercer with Adams...it's not about the names...
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Allemano on November 21, 2009, 06:24:25 PM
kind of blow of fate?
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 21, 2009, 06:47:04 PM
...VERY close...
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Allemano on November 21, 2009, 06:47:53 PM
anything to do with a ship?
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 21, 2009, 06:48:47 PM
You are there...
time for my final clue, then?
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Allemano on November 21, 2009, 06:53:11 PM
just let us have a look...!
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Ray B. on November 22, 2009, 07:31:38 AM
Washington Augustus II Roebling, of the Roebling family who owned half of the Mercer company, died aboard the Titanic.
After the Titanic sinking, Hiram Stevens Maxim, owner of the Adams Manufacturing company (and inventor of the Maxim machine gun), proposed a new system of echolocation (like the bats) for locating the ships.
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2009, 07:56:55 AM
the connection is much easier...
(never heard of Hiram Stevens Maxim as owner of the Adams Manufacturing...each day you learn something new!)
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Allemano on November 22, 2009, 08:24:46 AM
Where's that big clue?
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2009, 09:01:57 AM
Quote from: Allemano on November 21, 2009, 06:53:11 PM
just let us have a look...!
...
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: 75america on November 22, 2009, 09:08:14 AM
They both were present on a boat that sunk?
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Allemano on November 22, 2009, 09:12:43 AM
That Chrysler Norseman got lost on the Andrea Doria desaster. It was designed by Virgil Exner who later designed a relaunch Mercer car, the Mercer Cobra, built by Sibona Basano.
but that says nothing about the Adams Hewitt brand...
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2009, 09:23:54 AM
Quote from: Ray B. on November 22, 2009, 07:31:38 AM
Washington Augustus II Roebling, of the Roebling family who owned half of the Mercer company, died aboard the Titanic.
After the Titanic sinking, Hiram Stevens Maxim, owner of the Adams Manufacturing company (and inventor of the Maxim machine gun), proposed a new system of echolocation (like the bats) for locating the ships.
You were very close
Quote from: 75america on November 22, 2009, 09:08:14 AM
They both were present on a boat that sunk?
I think that the 1915 Mercer runabour din't had the canche...and the connection is about the Makes...Ray was really close.
Quote from: Allemano on November 22, 2009, 09:12:43 AM
That Chrysler Norseman got lost on the Andrea Doria desaster. It was designed by Virgil Exner who later designed a relaunch Mercer car, the Mercer Cobra, built by Sibona Basano.
but that says nothing about the Adams Hewitt brand...
The clue had to point you in the right direction, and you and Ray got it.
The answer is now much easier than you think....
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Allemano on November 22, 2009, 09:27:03 AM
So, I guess one of the important members of the Adam (Hewitt) company died on a ship accident as well?
Find nothing about it so far..
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: 75america on November 22, 2009, 09:27:17 AM
BTW is this a photo of the Chrysler Norseman.  
In my literature there is mentioned that no picture of the car exists.
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2009, 09:28:37 AM
Quote from: 75america on November 22, 2009, 09:27:17 AM
BTW is this a photo of the Chrysler Norseman. 
In my literature there is mentioned that no picture of the car exists.
There are different pictures of the car...
Quote from: Allemano on November 22, 2009, 09:27:03 AM
So, I guess one of the important member of the Adam (Hewitt) company died on a ship accident as well?
...I'm counting the seconds now...
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Ray B. on November 22, 2009, 09:36:32 AM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2009, 07:56:55 AM
the connection is much easier...
(never heard of Hiram Stevens Maxim as owner of the Adams Manufacturing...each day you learn something new!)
I guess you're right. I got misled by the Wikipedia page about the Adams automobile (check it). Nevertheless, it establishes a indirect connection between the Adamas car, through Edward Hewitt, and Hiram Maxim.
And the connection I found, through the Titanic disaster, between Maxim and the Mercer is quite dandy in my opinion. ;D
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2009, 09:55:04 AM
Quote from: Ray B. on November 22, 2009, 09:36:32 AM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2009, 07:56:55 AM
the connection is much easier...
(never heard of Hiram Stevens Maxim as owner of the Adams Manufacturing...each day you learn something new!)
I guess you're right. I got misled by the Wikipedia page about the Adams automobile (check it). Nevertheless, it establishes a indirect connection between the Adamas car, through Edward Hewitt, and Hiram Maxim.
And the connection I found, through the Titanic disaster, between Maxim and the Mercer is quite dandy in my opinion. ;D
The one you found was a 5-star connection!
I'm surprised that no-one found the solution, so far!
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Allemano on November 22, 2009, 10:04:20 AM
I'm surprised as well, but I'm stuck.
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2009, 12:24:54 PM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on November 22, 2009, 09:28:37 AM
Quote from: Allemano on November 22, 2009, 09:27:03 AM
So, I guess one of the important member of the Adam (Hewitt) company died on a ship accident as well?
...I'm counting the seconds now...
There is nothing I can add now..
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 23, 2009, 05:42:56 AM
It's so easy, but I can't do it
So risky - But I gotta a chance it
It's so funny, there's nothing to laugh about
My money, that's all you wanna talk about
I can see what you want me to be
But I'm no fool
It's in the lap of the Gods

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ya0FPFdCSY
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Ray B. on November 23, 2009, 06:56:43 AM
Sarah Cooper Hewitt and her sister, Eleanor Cooper Hewitt were abord the Lusitania in 1907. Sarah Cooper Hewitt (a very well-known and wealthy family of socialites) was I believe the mother of Edward L. Hewitt, father of the Adams car but more well known for his books about fish and fishing. But the Lhe Lusitania wasn't sunk before 1915, so I think the connection is very weak.

The is another: after the Titanic survivors landed in America, they were nursed by many "women of prominence" as said the New York Times in the following excerpt. One of them was Mrs Edward Hewitt, which we can guess is logically our Edward L. Hewitt's spouse.

"...Women of prominence could be seen moving about from task to task. Miss Anne Morgan was always busy, Mrs. August Belmont and Mrs. Eugene Kelly were helping with this case and that, Mrs. Edward Hewitt was a tower of strength, and Mrs. Henry Dimock was tireless as her bundles of clothing arrived, stack on stack, and her motor car carried her from one errand to another..."
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 23, 2009, 07:20:01 AM
I'm trying to find more about the story I have, but there are a lot of strange things...
You wrote about Hewitt and the Lusitania, referring to Hewitt as the father of the Adams make, but there was another man involved...
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 23, 2009, 07:42:50 AM
I'm finding a lot of strange coincidences, but it seems the solution is still out there...
Find the Adams founder and the solution will be revealed...
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Allemano on November 23, 2009, 08:37:31 AM
not A.H. Adams?
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 23, 2009, 09:11:48 AM
Why not?
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Allemano on November 23, 2009, 09:28:22 AM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on November 23, 2009, 09:11:48 AM
Why not?
he wasn't mentioned so far..

He was on board of the Lusitania on May 7, 1915, that date the ship sunk after it had been hit by a German torpedo.

come second on the passenger list:
http://ancestorsatrest.com/ships_passenger_lists/lusitania_passengers_3.shtml
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Ray B. on November 23, 2009, 09:31:23 AM
And he survived I think. I just found it too.
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 23, 2009, 09:53:14 AM
OK, here's what I have:
In the Beaulieu is reported that Mr. Arthur Henry Adams died on the Titanic.
In the passenger's list therearen't any Adams.
An Arthur Henry Adams was indeed on the Lusitania and was one of the casualties. (http://rmslusitania.info/pages/saloon_class/adams_wm.html)
Many sources report that this A.H. Adams was from Massachusetts and was the chief of the United States Rubber Company.
One source reports that A.H. Adams, the founder of the Adams Manufacturing was from Massachusetts.
Nowere is reported that these two A.H. Adams are the same person.

My opinion is that A.H. Adams was the founder of the Adams Manufacturing and died on a ship, but not the Titanic.
The original connection was that both died on the same shipwrech, but I think that they shared the same fate on different ships.
Now I have to determine who got closer....

Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 23, 2009, 09:58:55 AM
Quote from: Ray B. on November 23, 2009, 06:56:43 AM
Sarah Cooper Hewitt and her sister, Eleanor Cooper Hewitt were abord the Lusitania in 1907. Sarah Cooper Hewitt (a very well-known and wealthy family of socialites) was I believe the mother of Edward L. Hewitt, father of the Adams car but more well known for his books about fish and fishing. But the Lhe Lusitania wasn't sunk before 1915, so I think the connection is very weak.

The is another: after the Titanic survivors landed in America, they were nursed by many "women of prominence" as said the New York Times in the following excerpt. One of them was Mrs Edward Hewitt, which we can guess is logically our Edward L. Hewitt's spouse.

"...Women of prominence could be seen moving about from task to task. Miss Anne Morgan was always busy, Mrs. August Belmont and Mrs. Eugene Kelly were helping with this case and that, Mrs. Edward Hewitt was a tower of strength, and Mrs. Henry Dimock was tireless as her bundles of clothing arrived, stack on stack, and her motor car carried her from one errand to another..."


That is w e i r d !  :o
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Ray B. on November 23, 2009, 10:06:35 AM
Allemano got closer. I don't know how he got the idea of the ship and the blow of destiny, but I would have got nowhere without this.

Now about the "weird" connections I found. They're not so weird. In those days I guess it was quite common for that kind of socialites to travel on those big liners. And quite nrmazl too that the ladies compete to go and take care of the victims. And in addition they had their names in the newspapar, who devoted whole articles to that kind of facts.
Title: Re: PJ - 274
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 23, 2009, 10:20:04 AM
I still think that the Adams-Hewitt make had a bad relationship with travelling... ;D
I think Allemano knew about the Mercer-Titanic from the beginning, but Ray wrote it down.
Allemano got that an Adams was involved in another shipwreck and that he was A.H. Adams, but the Lusitania name came from Ray's reply.
You know what I'm going to do, don't you?  ;)
Title: Re: Solved -PJ274- Adams Eight 35-40HP Touring 1906 & Mercer Raceabout 1915
Post by: Ray B. on November 23, 2009, 11:37:17 AM
What I don't quite get is that, if Hewitt and Adams were Americans, how come the Adams car was British?
Title: Re: Solved -PJ274- Adams Eight 35-40HP Touring 1906 & Mercer Raceabout 1915
Post by: Allan L on November 23, 2009, 12:12:42 PM
The Adams Manufacturing Co, Bedford was a British company, so Mr. Adams was British, I assume.
The Adams Co. produced (or sold) cars designed by the Hewitt Motor Co. of New York as the Adams-Hewitt until January 1907, thereafter as Adams.
BUT
the V8 was a licence-built Antoinette design from France, so I'd say no American connection there
Title: Re: Solved -PJ274- Adams Eight 35-40HP Touring 1906 & Mercer Raceabout 1915
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 23, 2009, 12:56:41 PM
I was waiting for Allan's reply, since He's the most informed...
I know that Adams Manufacturing comes from Bedford, but there are some sources that report Mr Adams as a man from Massachussets (it's on the web), who build .
About this car, it was here only as an exemplar of the Adams make.
Is there a chance to know if A.H. Adams was a britishman or was the same man from Massachussets in many other sources?
Incidentally I found out that there is a Bedford in Massachussets!!

"The Adams Car

Arthur Henry Adams, from Massachusetts, set up the Adams Manufacturing Company in Elstow Road, Bedford, in 1905, to make Adams motorcars and 'Igranic' electrical control gear. He hoped to produce 500 cars per year. His pedal-operated gearbox and self-starting mechanism were revolutionary, but despite much favourable publicity in the trade press, the Adams Company collapsed through shortage of funds in 1913. It was making too many different models, mostly aimed at the luxury market. A rare example of an Adams mail phaeton of 1907 is in Bedford Museum."
Title: Re: Solved -PJ274- Adams Eight 35-40HP Touring 1906 & Mercer Raceabout 1915
Post by: Allan L on November 23, 2009, 06:03:27 PM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on November 23, 2009, 12:56:41 PM
I was waiting for Allan's reply, since He's the most informed...
But not necessarily correct!

Quote from: Paul Jaray on November 23, 2009, 12:56:41 PM
His pedal-operated gearbox and self-starting mechanism were revolutionary, but despite much favourable publicity in the trade press, the Adams Company collapsed through shortage of funds in 1913. It was making too many different models, mostly aimed at the luxury market. A rare example of an Adams mail phaeton of 1907 is in Bedford Museum."
Their slogan was
"Adams - pedals to push!"
A friend has researched and written about Adams, so I'll see if he knows whether Mr Adams was from Massachusetts