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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2009 => Topic started by: Allemano on July 13, 2009, 09:31:55 AM

Title: Solved: Sketched, The Second - Sketch of a Turner Imp that was never made
Post by: Allemano on July 13, 2009, 09:31:55 AM
Another pure Pro amusement.

The car on that sketch was never built. Do you know what it was meant to be?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: gilescooperuk on July 13, 2009, 05:58:28 PM
Well - totally random guess but

Triumph prototype possible around the TR5, TR6 period?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 13, 2009, 06:01:47 PM
The period is correct, the country as well, but it is from a different make
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: gilescooperuk on July 13, 2009, 06:04:51 PM
Ok then I'll try a Healey...
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 13, 2009, 06:14:21 PM
Not Healey!
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: gilescooperuk on July 13, 2009, 06:17:01 PM
is this a manufacturer you would expect to be producing this type of sports cars or not?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 13, 2009, 06:19:23 PM
That's a good question...
You mean the other cars of this make look completely different?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: gilescooperuk on July 13, 2009, 06:23:26 PM
well not quite...

For example - you would expect MG, Triumph, healey to produce 2 seater sports cars so it would be a logical design.

However you wouldn't expect vauxhall to do the same (I can't think of a single performance vauxhall of that era?)

So the question is does it come from the design studio of an established sports car manufacturer or not?

I think that makes it clear  ???
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 13, 2009, 06:29:52 PM
Absolutely! ;D
Yes, the basic configuration is expectable for that make, though something is completely different...
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: gilescooperuk on July 13, 2009, 06:34:35 PM
Well I'm guessing the configuration difference would be it is rear engined as it looks like it has vents above the rear lights..

Another guess coming up - Hillman?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 13, 2009, 06:40:40 PM
Exactly – The other cars of that brand aren't rear engined!

Unfortunately there were a lot of other makes which built cars with that classic roadster/spider configuration

It's neither Hillman.
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: gilescooperuk on July 13, 2009, 06:46:55 PM
Well that would exclude MG and Lotus then.

Last guess for tonight then....

TVR?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 13, 2009, 06:49:35 PM
Nope! I'm sorry for bad dreams you may have...
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: D-type on July 13, 2009, 06:51:33 PM
Lea Francis?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 13, 2009, 06:54:26 PM
Neither!
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: guido66 on July 14, 2009, 04:21:50 PM
Morgan?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 14, 2009, 04:22:43 PM
Not Morgan, sorry!
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Otto Puzzell on July 15, 2009, 03:23:46 AM
Sunbeam?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 03:29:56 AM
Sunbeam neither.
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Otto Puzzell on July 15, 2009, 03:45:54 AM
Well, you didn't say "not a Vauxhall" in reply to gilescooperuk's post. So, was it to be a Vauxhall? GM had some rear-engine bits laying around in the early 60's. 
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Arunas on July 15, 2009, 03:51:21 AM
Reliant? ???
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 03:53:41 AM
Neither Vauxhall nor Reliant.
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: metalshapes on July 15, 2009, 04:00:38 AM
Bond ?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Otto Puzzell on July 15, 2009, 04:01:50 AM
Humber?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 04:03:42 AM
Not a Bond.

Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 04:05:22 AM
Quote from: Otto Puzzell on July 15, 2009, 04:01:50 AM
Humber?
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g106/pan1968/Gifs/nea.gif)
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Otto Puzzell on July 15, 2009, 04:08:42 AM
A something-Healey?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 04:12:09 AM
It had been many producers which built cars like that, hadn't it? ;)
No Healey either!

But time will tell...
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Arunas on July 15, 2009, 08:24:47 AM
Sunbeam?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 08:31:41 AM
Quote from: Otto Puzzell on July 15, 2009, 03:23:46 AM
Sunbeam?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Arunas on July 15, 2009, 08:55:29 AM
This means  :nod: or  :shakehead:
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 08:58:56 AM
Quote from: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 03:29:56 AM
Sunbeam neither.

It's all in the topic Mr. Arunas! (take a look at the author and the time of the last quotes!)
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Arunas on July 15, 2009, 09:05:21 AM
Sorry.

Is the company (for which the cars was sketeched) still active?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 09:08:15 AM
I reckon that Lotus would be one of the (next) guesses.
Even though it's not a Lotus.
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 09:09:24 AM
Thanks for the edit..... (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g106/pan1968/Gifs/dry.gif)

No, it isn't active anymore.
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Arunas on July 15, 2009, 09:21:14 AM
Jensen, maybe?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 09:23:12 AM
Nope.
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Arunas on July 15, 2009, 09:48:42 AM
Aston Martin / Lagonda?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 09:52:01 AM
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g106/pan1968/Gifs/non.gif)

Aston Martin is still active...did you know?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Arunas on July 15, 2009, 10:19:20 AM
I knew, just forgot. MG?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 10:23:01 AM
No.
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Arunas on July 15, 2009, 10:33:02 AM
Riley?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 10:36:39 AM
Not Riley either...
I'm afraid, that may take a long time....
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: guido66 on July 15, 2009, 01:06:49 PM
Alvis?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 01:09:45 PM
Quote from: guido66 on July 15, 2009, 01:06:49 PM
Alvis?
Worth a try, but it isn't.
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: gilescooperuk on July 15, 2009, 03:41:13 PM
Just having tried to work out what has already been guessed here is a quick summary..

it is not any of the following:

Alvis
Aston Martin
Bond
Healey
Hillman
Humber
Lea Francis
Jensen
Lagonda
Lotus
Morgan
MG
Reliant
Riley
Sunbeam
Triumph
TVR
Vauxhall

Now for a new guess.... INVICTA
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: gilescooperuk on July 15, 2009, 03:42:45 PM
and another one ELVA?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 03:43:00 PM
Oh thanks, you did my job!

.....and: you can add INVICTA to this list. ;D
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 03:43:40 PM
and ELVA, too!
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 03:44:31 PM
Alvis
Aston Martin
Bond
ELVA
Healey
Hillman
Humber
Invicta
Lea Francis
Jensen
Lagonda
Lotus
Morgan
MG
Reliant
Riley
Sunbeam
Triumph
TVR
Vauxhall
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 15, 2009, 03:46:20 PM
AC?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 03:52:41 PM
AC
Alvis
Aston Martin
Bond
ELVA
Healey
Hillman
Humber
Invicta
Lea Francis
Jensen
Lagonda
Lotus
Morgan
MG
Reliant
Riley
Sunbeam
Triumph
TVR
Vauxhall
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 15, 2009, 03:53:59 PM
Allard?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 03:56:12 PM
Do you want to complete the whole range?


AC
Allard
Alvis
Aston Martin
Bond
ELVA
Healey
Hillman
Humber
Invicta
Lea Francis
Jensen
Lagonda
Lotus
Morgan
MG
Reliant
Riley
Sunbeam
Triumph
TVR
Vauxhall
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 15, 2009, 04:00:46 PM
Berkeley?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 04:09:16 PM

AC
Allard
Alvis
Aston Martin
Berkeley
Bond
ELVA
Healey
Hillman
Humber
Invicta
Lea Francis
Jensen
Lagonda
Lotus
Morgan
MG
Reliant
Riley
Sunbeam
Triumph
TVR
Vauxhall
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Arunas on July 15, 2009, 04:11:57 PM
jowett?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 15, 2009, 04:12:34 PM
Dellow?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 04:18:56 PM

AC
Allard
Alvis
Aston Martin
Berkeley
Bond
Dellow
ELVA
Healey
Hillman
Humber
Invicta
Lea Francis
Jensen
Jowett
Lagonda
Lotus
Morgan
MG
Reliant
Riley
Sunbeam
Triumph
TVR
Vauxhall
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 04:19:44 PM
25 blanks!
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 15, 2009, 04:24:03 PM
Fairthorpe?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 04:25:46 PM

AC
Allard
Alvis
Aston Martin
Berkeley
Bond
Dellow
ELVA
Fairthorpe
Healey
Hillman
Humber
Invicta
Lea Francis
Jensen
Jowett
Lagonda
Lotus
Morgan
MG
Reliant
Riley
Sunbeam
Triumph
TVR
Vauxhall
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 15, 2009, 04:27:13 PM
Frazer-Nash
(  :censored: Erba's rule...)
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 04:29:18 PM

AC
Allard
Alvis
Aston Martin
Berkeley
Bond
Dellow
ELVA
Fairthorpe
Frazer-Nash
Healey
Hillman
Humber
Invicta
Lea Francis
Jensen
Jowett
Lagonda
Lotus
Morgan
MG
Reliant
Riley
Sunbeam
Triumph
TVR
Vauxhall
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 15, 2009, 04:35:05 PM
Gilbern?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 04:39:07 PM

AC
Allard
Alvis
Aston Martin
Berkeley
Bond
Dellow
ELVA
Fairthorpe
Frazer-Nash
Gilbern
Healey
Hillman
Humber
Invicta
Lea Francis
Jensen
Jowett
Lagonda
Lotus
Morgan
MG
Reliant
Riley
Sunbeam
Triumph
TVR
Vauxhall
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 15, 2009, 04:43:18 PM
Marcos?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 04:46:15 PM

AC
Allard
Alvis
Aston Martin
Berkeley
Bond
Dellow
ELVA
Fairthorpe
Frazer-Nash
Gilbern
Healey
Hillman
Humber
Invicta
Lea Francis
Jensen
Jowett
Lagonda
Lotus
Marcos
Morgan
MG
Reliant
Riley
Sunbeam
Triumph
TVR
Vauxhall
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 15, 2009, 04:46:42 PM
Ogle?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 04:49:05 PM

AC
Allard
Alvis
Aston Martin
Berkeley
Bond
Dellow
ELVA
Fairthorpe
Frazer-Nash
Gilbern
Healey
Hillman
Humber
Invicta
Lea Francis
Jensen
Jowett
Lagonda
Lotus
Marcos
Morgan
MG
Ogle
Reliant
Riley
Sunbeam
Triumph
TVR
Vauxhall
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 15, 2009, 04:54:37 PM
Turner?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 05:06:55 PM

AC
Allard
Alvis
Aston Martin
Berkeley
Bond
Dellow
ELVA
Fairthorpe
Frazer-Nash
Gilbern
Healey
Hillman
Humber
Invicta
Lea Francis
Jensen
Jowett
Lagonda
Lotus
Marcos
Morgan
MG
Ogle
Reliant
Riley
Sunbeam
Triumph

Turner
TVR
Vauxhall
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 15, 2009, 05:12:20 PM
I can go on for days...but...is this manufacturer (no more active) known for a single model (or various version of the same model) or was its production wider?
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 05:14:32 PM
Take a close look at my last post Mr. Jaray..
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 15, 2009, 05:25:53 PM
I did, but thought it was a mistake...so it's a Turner!
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 15, 2009, 05:27:34 PM
"This is a Vintage Thing that nearly reached production but didn't.

I recently came across an Imp derived car that I'd never heard of. I wasn't expecting to find one, either, because I was reading Turner Sports Cars by Peter Tuthill. These were sports racing cars of the traditional British front engine/rear wheel drive variety. In fact the Turner 803 was probably what spurred BMC to produce the Austin–Healey Sprite.

Unfortunately, the rear-engined Turner sports car never got built. The illness of the company's founder, Jack Turner, brought about the voluntary liquidation of the company in 1966. By that stage Jack had drawn up an attractive little car with a Kamm tail and what looks like a front mounted radiator. Jack was a personal friend of Wally Hassan the Coventry Climax development engineer. Many competition Turners featured Coventry-Climax 1216cc engines so Jack would have been more than familiar with the Imp engine's racing heritage.

Moulds for GRP bodywork were completed but they were sold on liquidation to the Watsonian sidecar company. Apparently, Watsonian were looking to diversify since demand for sidecars was dwindling, apparently as a result of the Mini. Now, I don't know about you but I think the introduction of the Imp also had something to do with the demise of the motorcycle combination. But Imp engines were quickly adapted for sidecar racing and became the powerplant in many successful outfits. There was a Mini powered device called the Greenwood Mini but that was a symmetrical affair with two wheels at the front and one at the back. It was subsequently banned as not entering into the general spirit of lop-sided awkwardness beloved of conventional outfit crews. The Greenwood Mini was also hugely successful, which didn't help either. Anyway, the Imp was good for sidecars – well, the racing variety, anyway – while the Mini was not.

Producing an Imp based sports car alongside its sidecars would seem to be a smart move by Watsonian in a kind of "if you can't beat them join them" sort of way but the project ran out of steam without Jack Turner. The moulds were moved to Watsonian Sidecars but it would appear that they were subsequently broken up without ever having been used.

The illustration and information is reproduced here with kind permission from Peter Tuthill the author of Turner Sports Cars. For more information on the Turner Imp and the other cars made by this manufacturer I can wholeheartedly recommend Peter's book, which is available at £11.95 from Peter himself – peter.tuthill@tesco.net

The Turner Imp came tantalisingly close to production on more than one occasion but remains another fascinating "what if". If the success of the Turner 803 really did prompt BMC to launch the Frogeye Sprite, would the Turner Imp's success have got Rootes to do their own thing and get the Asp prototype into production?"
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 05:28:05 PM
It's so easy to find!  :hah:

Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 15, 2009, 05:30:23 PM
Turner Imp.
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: Allemano on July 15, 2009, 05:31:59 PM
Yes!

So, this marathon race has a winner as well!  :)
Title: Re: Sketched, the second
Post by: metalshapes on July 15, 2009, 07:59:08 PM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on July 15, 2009, 05:27:34 PM
"This is a Vintage Thing that nearly reached production but didn't.

I recently came across an Imp derived car that I'd never heard of. I wasn't expecting to find one, either, because I was reading Turner Sports Cars by Peter Tuthill. These were sports racing cars of the traditional British front engine/rear wheel drive variety. In fact the Turner 803 was probably what spurred BMC to produce the Austin–Healey Sprite.

Unfortunately, the rear-engined Turner sports car never got built. The illness of the company's founder, Jack Turner, brought about the voluntary liquidation of the company in 1966. By that stage Jack had drawn up an attractive little car with a Kamm tail and what looks like a front mounted radiator. Jack was a personal friend of Wally Hassan the Coventry Climax development engineer. Many competition Turners featured Coventry-Climax 1216cc engines so Jack would have been more than familiar with the Imp engine's racing heritage.

Moulds for GRP bodywork were completed but they were sold on liquidation to the Watsonian sidecar company. Apparently, Watsonian were looking to diversify since demand for sidecars was dwindling, apparently as a result of the Mini. Now, I don't know about you but I think the introduction of the Imp also had something to do with the demise of the motorcycle combination. But Imp engines were quickly adapted for sidecar racing and became the powerplant in many successful outfits. There was a Mini powered device called the Greenwood Mini but that was a symmetrical affair with two wheels at the front and one at the back. It was subsequently banned as not entering into the general spirit of lop-sided awkwardness beloved of conventional outfit crews. The Greenwood Mini was also hugely successful, which didn't help either. Anyway, the Imp was good for sidecars – well, the racing variety, anyway – while the Mini was not.

Producing an Imp based sports car alongside its sidecars would seem to be a smart move by Watsonian in a kind of "if you can't beat them join them" sort of way but the project ran out of steam without Jack Turner. The moulds were moved to Watsonian Sidecars but it would appear that they were subsequently broken up without ever having been used.

The illustration and information is reproduced here with kind permission from Peter Tuthill the author of Turner Sports Cars. For more information on the Turner Imp and the other cars made by this manufacturer I can wholeheartedly recommend Peter's book, which is available at £11.95 from Peter himself – peter.tuthill@tesco.net

The Turner Imp came tantalisingly close to production on more than one occasion but remains another fascinating "what if". If the success of the Turner 803 really did prompt BMC to launch the Frogeye Sprite, would the Turner Imp's success have got Rootes to do their own thing and get the Asp prototype into production?"

Awesome History and Info.

Thanks.

Lost opportunity, that would have been a cool car.

Funny you should mention the Greenwood Mini.

;D