AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!
Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2010 => Topic started by: neilshouse on October 30, 2009, 02:02:47 PM
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I do not know what this car is!
All I know is that the driver is Bertie Sayers from England (who was a very distant relative of mine), I have found a reference to a driver with that name driving a car called 'Aberties' which given his name would probably be a self built car, however I have no idea if this is the Aberties or not, and if it is, what is the Aberties based on?
Hopefully someone can identify it.
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Did this come from Autosport Magazine, January 10, 1964 edition?
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To me it looks like it could be BMC Mini based. At least it's front wheel drive (and front engined? I can see no exhaust pipes anywhere).
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To me it looks like it could be BMC Mini based. At least it's front wheel drive (and front engined? I can see no exhaust pipes anywhere).
Don't agree.
It has the Triumph uprights used on many British specials and limited production cars of the time, and you can see it's not front driven.
The front wheels look like A40/Sprite BMC wheels, but the rears are different and may even be VW.
I think it must be rear engined, but water-cooled, so perhaps used VW transmission/rear suspension but not engine.
For the moment I can't find the Aberties, but I do remember there was a special of that name.
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I can't differ one car's uprights from another one's, so I have nothing to do but to believe you ::)
It looks like I was mistaken with the front engine layout, too - not enough space there even for a very small one.
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I can't differ one car's uprights from another one's, so I have nothing to do but to believe you ::)
It looks like I was mistaken with the front engine layout, too - not enough space there even for a very small one.
The Triumph (Alford & Alder) upright looks like this:
(http://www.zen11896.zen.co.uk/vixen/handbook/images/front_suspension.jpg)
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Did this come from Autosport Magazine, January 10, 1964 edition?
I have no idea Otto, the picture came from a genealogy website with no information about the car or year. There is a reference to 'Aberties' in that magazine but I don't have a copy.
It has the Triumph uprights used on many British specials and limited production cars of the time, and you can see it's not front driven.
The front wheels look like A40/Sprite BMC wheels, but the rears are different and may even be VW.
I think it must be rear engined, but water-cooled, so perhaps used VW transmission/rear suspension but not engine.
I was thinking along the same sort of lines Allan, the rear wheels do have a VW look to them although there is no camber but this could be due to the cars position in the corner. I don't recognise the formula either, the car has a F3 look to it but is being raced on dirt.
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I think you guys are right about the Triumph/ Standard 10 uprights, and the VW rear wheels.
Probably with a VW swingaxle transaxle, and maybe even a VW engine ( mid mounted, because the tail looks really short ).
A 4 inline could be too tall for that bodywork, and the nose looks really short to be able to have a radiator in front of the front mounted R&P.
I hope you find out more...
That is a very cool car.
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A pic with higher resolution would help to identify the name written on the front, but guess this isn't available ?!
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This is the highest resolution pic I have. The name is a bit clearer but not clear enough to read properly, it could be 'Aberties'
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Probalbly it's something similar, though the first letter seems to be an "E".
Tried to unveil the logo with PS, but unfortunately that's all what I could extract from the pic.
With some imagination it really could be 'Alberties', but something completely different as well.. :-\
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(A belated) thank you for the zoomed in picture of the badge Allemano, like you say, it could be 'Aberties' but could also be any number of other things.
I have managed to buy a copy of Autosport Jan 10th 1964 from ebay, it features an Aberties but as you can see from the picture it is very different to the other car.
I was thinking that the badges are the same but on closer inspection it seems they are not.
The Autosport picture comes from the Warco Trial in Northampton, organised by the Peterborough Motor Club.
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Moved to the black hole, hopefully one day someone will recognise it.
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This car IS an Abertie's, It was built by my father Bertie Sayers. In which he won the british auto cross championship in 1966. the car was rear engined 1600 cosworth tuned ford. gear box behind that , right at the back. He also made several cars & accessories for mud plugging which he was involved with for many years. I have several other pictures of the autocross car if any one is interested.
Moved to the black hole, hopefully one day someone will recognise it.
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This car IS an Abertie's, It was built by my father Bertie Sayers. In which he won the british auto cross championship in 1966. the car was rear engined 1600 cosworth tuned ford. gear box behind that , right at the back. He also made several cars & accessories for mud plugging which he was involved with for many years. I have several other pictures of the autocross car if any one is interested.
That is fantastic, thank you aberties for joining Autopuzzles to identify the Aberties.
Interesting to note that it was road legal judging by the number plate and tax disc on your picture
I would be very interested in seeing more pictures of the cars that your father built, seems he was a talented man as both engineer and driver.
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Agreed!
The whole construction and looks are quite interesting.
Hopefully weŽll see some more pictures...
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Thank you very much aberties for your input.
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Just to add a bit of info. I'm one of the grandsons of Bertie Sayers (son of Aberties forum member) I posted the photo on the genealogy forum that started this. I can't add a great deal more then my Dad, as I was only about 6 or 7 at the time, but it was pretty cool having a racing driver granddad.
I did buy a copy of Autosport from ebay that had a small piece of info, so I'll dig that out and post any new pictures.
Neilshouse, you'll have to let me know the connection so I can fit you into the tree.
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This story is a good example for why I like this place so much. :)
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Bertie Sayers built several cars, including the 2 different pictures already on this site. If you look carefully you will notice that he put his logo 'Aberties' on both of them. I believe I may have found an Aberties in Devon but I am awaiting confirmation of this in the next week or two.
He built a roadster in the early 60's for a friend, similar to the autocross car. This car was fully restored in the 80's by the owner, I have a photo of this car after restoration, but it will take some while to find it.
Apart from the 'mud plugger' already pictured, he built at least 3 others. The last one of which was quite revolutionary at the time, it had 'loop sprung' suspension at the front and cable stearing [to do away with stearing box] thereby saving weight.
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Bertie Sayers in his mud plugger. I believe this was the last car of this type he built. Besides building this car he also made the wheels.
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Those wheels do have a neat design even today. :o
May I ask, when the last posted picture was made?
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An amazing addition, gentlemen. Do you happen to have Bertie Sayers' cars racing statistics and some technical information?
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The last picture on this site was taken from a magazine, unfortuneatly no date or name, BUT, one of the pictures showed a tax disc expiring Dec 66. The attached picture was also in the same article.
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The attached picture has the following information written on the reverse;
B. Sayers. Aberties 1340cc. E.A.M.C. Autocross. Stanway 13/9/64.
The 3 pictures show the engine compartment of that car.
Also attached is the roadster Bertie built [in the late 50's early 60's], after it was restored in the mid 80's.
As regards races won , I shall have to find some of his trophies for info.
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Wonderful!
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Thank you aberties for the pictures and extra information, very interesting indeed. The road car especially looks wonderful and is quite a surprise to find out about.
Just to add a bit of info. I'm one of the grandsons of Bertie Sayers (son of Aberties forum member) I posted the photo on the genealogy forum that started this. I can't add a great deal more then my Dad, as I was only about 6 or 7 at the time, but it was pretty cool having a racing driver granddad.
I did buy a copy of Autosport from ebay that had a small piece of info, so I'll dig that out and post any new pictures.
Neilshouse, you'll have to let me know the connection so I can fit you into the tree.
erlang, I'm sure I'm in the tree, my father has been tracing our family tree for several years, and has been in contact with you, it was him who gave me the photo that you posted on the genealogy website (genes reunited). Bertie Sayers was my Great Grandmother's first cousin.
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Hi there, I'm one of the granddaughters of Bertie Sayers (daughter of Aberties forum member) and I think I may have a photo or two of granddad as well. I'll see what I can find.
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Hey, we have the whole family on the forum!
I love it.
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This is a closeup of an "aberties" trials car, clearly showing the logo on the front.
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Fantastic, thank you.
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A few more photos.
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Thank you Erlang168 for sharing those pictures.
Do you know what happened to the car?
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+++!
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Thank you Erlang168 for sharing those pictures.
Do you know what happened to the car?
Afraid not at the moment my Dad is on it's trail, but no sign so far.
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Time to call this one "solved"?
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And probably movve to feature articles or somewhere there instead of Solved section? ???
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Thank you Erlang168 for sharing those pictures.
Do you know what happened to the car?
Afraid not at the moment my Dad is on it's trail, but no sign so far.
Please keep us posted.
Time to call this one "solved"?
Yes, it is solved but I am hoping we receive more information to make it more solved!
And probably move to feature articles or somewhere there instead of Solved section? ???
Sounds like a good idea, what does anyone else think?
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I am in the process of creating a list of Bertie Sayers raceing, his achievments & trophy's won. Also some technical details although that is proveing difficult as my brothers and I where young at the time and not engine knowledgeable.
Also still awaiting information on an A berties traced in Devon, I'll try contacting the owner again.
Bertie was interested in cars & owned an old saloon before the second world war. It was laid up in the shed on Blocks for most of the war, due to petrol shortage.
Soon after the war as petrol became available his club, the Cambridge 50 car club arranged Small, Short rally's. He was quite succesful & inovative in these and he soon got interested in building his first car for mud plugging. The same car was used in his first autocross event. First picture showing testing this car, then the two different events.
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Moved to Solved, please read the Featured Article about Bertie Sayers and his cars www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=13476.new#new (http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=13476.new#new)