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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2010 => Topic started by: guido66 on October 14, 2010, 04:41:06 PM

Title: GG-239 Pierre Brissonnet Voiturette
Post by: guido66 on October 14, 2010, 04:41:06 PM
ID the car and you'll receive a point.
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: guido66 on October 23, 2010, 05:20:59 AM
Experts?
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: Carnut on October 23, 2010, 06:17:24 PM
Chantecler?
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: guido66 on October 24, 2010, 04:31:22 AM
That's not the name that I have for this car.
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: cmetisse on October 24, 2010, 06:20:59 AM
I think it is the PB, a 1955 french microcar.
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: guido66 on October 24, 2010, 07:20:40 AM
Locked for you, to tell me what PB stands for  ;)
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: cmetisse on October 25, 2010, 06:00:40 AM
To be honest, I really don't know what "PB" stands for !  ;D

I guess it is related to the man or the company who had built this microcar... All I know is that it was shown at the 1955 Paris Motorshow, as the Paul Vallée Chanteclerc, which looked quite like the PB !

Both had plastic body, 3 wheels and a choice of Ydral engines, 125 or 175 cc.

But only the Paul Vallée was put in small production, until the death of Mr. Paul Vallée in april 57.

Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: Carnut on October 25, 2010, 07:11:53 AM
Quote from: cmetisse on October 25, 2010, 06:00:40 AM
All I know is that it was shown at the 1955 Paris Motorshow, as the Paul Vallée Chanteclerc, which looked quite like the PB !

So I was right first time?!
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: cmetisse on October 25, 2010, 09:46:00 AM
Sorry, my english is sometimes... rusty !

The PB and the Paul Vallée were both shown at the 1955 Paris Motorshow, this is what I wanted to say...

Perhaps they had the same father, but they were two differents bubblecars.  ;)
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: Carnut on October 25, 2010, 09:47:28 AM
Quote from: cmetisse on October 25, 2010, 09:46:00 AM
Sorry, my english is sometimes... rusty !

The PB and the Paul Vallée were both shown at the 1955 Paris Motorshow, this is what I wanted to say...

Perhaps they had the same father, but they were two differents bubblecars.  ;)

I see what you mean...
They do look similar, hence my first guess..
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: guido66 on October 25, 2010, 10:19:41 AM
Do you want me to keep it locked for you, cmetisse? It's not an impossible puzzle  ;)
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: cmetisse on October 25, 2010, 10:48:13 AM
No problem, you can unlocked it !

In fact, I've said everything I know about this car. I've search everywhere in my archives, and no traces of the full name hidden behind "P.B.".
I don't even know where it was built : most microcar books doesn't even mention it...
Anyway, I've found the country, the maker, the year and the engines... Not bad, isn't it ?
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: Carnut on October 25, 2010, 11:11:19 AM
I'm posting this for interest:

QUOTE

1956 P. VALLEE CHANTECLER

This individualistic designer in the Loire valley was ex-director of a French auto racing team (hence the rooster emblem).
He introduced a sporty single seater called Chantecler at the 1952 Salon, having previously introduced an open frame scooter with a big splash at Montlhery in 1949. Well received, the scooter evolved into a "Lastenroller", a three-wheeled transporter with front-mounted platform.
This chassis was used for his Chantecler (rooster) small car, with its amusing bulbous body in fiberglass. The first version shown had a single central headlight, steel tube windshield frame, moulded-in front bumper, and sharply cut-off tail. Interestingly, this was identical to another car also on show at the 1955 Paris Salon: the very short-lived P.B.The P.Vallee version grew another headlight, and the production version Chantecler had a similar bulbous body, but with aluminum bumpers, fiberglass windshield frame and rounded tail. Colours offered were ivory, red, two-tone and later blue.
The car was equipped with the Westinghouse Gyrostarter, which on pulling a lever wound up a flywheel with a whining sound. At maximum revs, the lever was dropped, suddenly engaging a clutch coupled to the motor and causing it to turn over, exactly like an aircraft starter. The Inter also used it.
The little car was well suited to the limited parameters for which it was designed, and enjoyed a happy but brief life, cut short by the death by heart attack of M.Vallee on April 3, 1957.

UNQUOTE
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: guido66 on October 25, 2010, 11:59:03 AM
Free for all experts and rookies to come up with the full name.

CMetisse will get a point for his efforts when I move it to solved  ;)
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: cmetisse on October 25, 2010, 02:15:31 PM
Indeed, I can't wait to read the full name !
I think I've tried all the well-informed sources for obscure microcar brands, and still I have not find much...
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: thorax on November 24, 2010, 07:06:34 AM
I think that this model is made by the manifacturer S.I.C.R.A.F (France) and named "Chantecler".

This microcar was created when the french Paul Valleè motorcycle company, decided to make a three wheeled utility truck, which was later redesigned into a vehicle that was more car-like, the Chantecler (Nightingale).
Powered by a 175 cc Ydral two stroke single cylinder engine, the Valleè has a fiberglass body that is attached to a square tube chassis. Anyone who bought this vehicle was allowed to ride it without a licence providing they stayed under 60 Km/h of the permitted speed limit.
Manifacturer : S.I.C.R.A.F.
country of origin : France
model : Chantecler
years of production : 1956 - 58
numbers produced : 200
lenght : 3100 mm
width : 1320 mm
motor : Ydral 2 stroke
no. cylinders : 1
displacement: 125 cc
horsepower : 6 HP
gearbox : 4 + rev
brakes : cable
top speed : 75 Km/h
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: Carnut on November 24, 2010, 09:12:09 AM
Thorax - see my Reply #2 and Guido66's response #3!
Don't tell me I was right all along?
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: Amsterdam on November 24, 2010, 09:33:56 AM
No it is truely called a PB.

at the Paris Motor Show 1955, PB has its new cart, with a body made entirely of plastic and powered by a 125 or 175cm3 brand Ydral, BP is capable of 65km / h for the 125 and 80km / h for 175.

The question now is what does PB stands for? I for sure do not know.
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: thorax on November 24, 2010, 12:00:46 PM
Quote from: Carnut on November 24, 2010, 09:12:09 AM
Thorax - see my Reply #2 and Guido66's response #3!
Don't tell me I was right all along?

ok, ok  ;D(http://thumbnails25.imagebam.com/10804/e342e1108039383.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/e342e1108039383)
but I've found this:
(//)
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: Carnut on November 24, 2010, 12:33:09 PM
Can't open the picture thorax - can you have another go at posting it please?

Thanks
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: guido66 on November 24, 2010, 01:20:13 PM
It is a PB and not a S.I.C.R.A.F.

Here are all the other photos I have of this car. There were 2 slightly differenent ones:
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: Amsterdam on November 24, 2010, 01:30:14 PM
PB. are those initials of the builders name?
Or does it mean something else, like Petit Bolide? ;D
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: guido66 on November 24, 2010, 01:34:24 PM
Yes, PB are the initials of the builder.
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: cmetisse on November 25, 2010, 02:20:04 AM
Please, tell us...

Because I'm really doubtful the man behind the P.B. was somebody already known in the car business : we would have heard that story before, as some french magazines were very well aware of even the smallest "car" projects...
Maybe Mr. "P.B." was from the motorcycle industry ?
On your pictures, the man with glasses sitting on passenger side looks quite like Jean Bernardet (l'Automobile, then l'Equipe). But the frame and powertrain looks... very Paul Vallée !
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: guido66 on November 25, 2010, 12:45:55 PM
I'll move it to the pros and see what happens  ;)
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: cmetisse on November 25, 2010, 02:31:42 PM
... I'm still waiting for my hard-earned point.  ;D
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: Amsterdam on November 25, 2010, 02:34:44 PM
Quote from: cmetisse on November 25, 2010, 02:31:42 PM
... I'm still waiting for my hard-earned point.  ;D


Quote from: guido66 on October 25, 2010, 11:59:03 AM

CMetisse will get a point for his efforts when I move it to solved  ;)


;)
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: cmetisse on November 27, 2010, 04:12:40 AM
Anyway, are "P.B." the initials of the boss of the "factory", or the brain behind the car ?
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: guido66 on November 27, 2010, 04:40:44 AM
Both  ;)
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: cmetisse on November 27, 2010, 08:04:17 AM
Someone well known in the french motorcycle or car industry ?
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: guido66 on November 27, 2010, 09:15:44 AM
Not well known obviously, otherwise this puzzle would have been long solved  ;)

He also made this:
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: cmetisse on November 27, 2010, 09:49:11 AM
Think I've got it...

The scooter is a Mors Speed, the brain behind is Pierre Brissonnet !
I guess there was a connection with Paul Vallée, maybe Mr. Brissonnet has worked on both projects, the P.B. and the Chanteclerc !

Mors scooters were produced in a factory of Sens. And yes, it was the same Mors famous for his luxury cars until 1925...

Much, much later, the Mors brand was even used as "MTM" (Mors Transmissions Mécaniques) for a transaxle and a rack and pinion steering used on many voiturettes in the eighties, previously known as "Renondin-Losson"...
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: Allan L on November 27, 2010, 10:45:25 AM
Quote from: Amsterdam on November 24, 2010, 01:30:14 PM
PB. are those initials of the builders name?
Or does it mean something else, like Petit Bolide? ;D
PourBoire?
Title: Re: GG-239
Post by: guido66 on November 27, 2010, 12:55:03 PM
 :thumbsup: Two points for your work, CMetisse!  :applause:

He was also in the aftermarket tuning business:
Title: Re: GG-239 Pierre Brissonnet Voiturette
Post by: cmetisse on November 27, 2010, 01:22:59 PM
Thank you !  ;)

But I think its real "commercial" name was really the "P.B.", that's the one I have in the rare documents talking about this car...

Guido, just one question : where did you find these pictures ? In fact, I've never seen them before !
You can answer in MP if you want.
Title: Re: GG-239 Pierre Brissonnet Voiturette
Post by: DeAutogids on November 28, 2010, 02:06:10 PM
Brissonnet sold all of his own products, as far as I know, under the Speed brand.

By the way, this was not his venture in car manufacturing...
Title: Re: GG-239 Pierre Brissonnet Voiturette
Post by: Wendax on November 04, 2012, 01:08:47 PM
A contemporary article:
Title: Re: GG-239 Pierre Brissonnet Voiturette
Post by: Wendax on May 01, 2021, 04:07:31 PM
Another picture of the existing PB: