AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!

Productmobile #4, although it isn't quite readable, is a BromoSeltzer advertising truck.

Neat! ;D

Have fun, experts and pros!

#3 - Mayer Wienermobile, based on ...

#5 Daimler Worthington 1923

Quote from: Paul Jaray on August 11, 2009, 01:17:40 PM
#3 - Mayer Wienermobile, based on ...

I hope it wasn't too hard guessing this, Paul. ;D
I expect better from you.

Quote from: guido66 on August 11, 2009, 01:21:47 PM
#5 Daimler Worthington 1923

Fine... I just knew it was a Daimler.

#3: is this wienermobile based on a 1952 dodge chassis?

#1: 1921 Dodge

#6: 1936 Studebaker

#4: 1932 White

Quote from: 75america on August 11, 2009, 01:53:04 PM
#3: is this wienermobile based on a 1952 dodge chassis?

Dodge is correct, 1952 is not the year I have.
So, what kind of Dodge, and what year (you're close). Locked for you until your next answer.

Quote from: 75america on August 11, 2009, 02:04:52 PM
#1: 1921 Dodge

Exact.

Quote from: 75america on August 11, 2009, 02:54:12 PM
#6: 1936 Studebaker

Correct, but what model of Studebaker? Locked for you til your next answer.

Quote from: 75america on August 11, 2009, 03:00:05 PM
#4: 1932 White

Exact. You're sweeping this one clean!

Quote from: Ray B. on August 12, 2009, 04:45:36 AM

Quote from: 75america on August 11, 2009, 02:54:12 PM
#6: 1936 Studebaker

Correct, but what model of Studebaker? Locked for you til your next answer.

I'm not an expert in American cars and I can only find that it was based on a 'Studebaker Coupé'.  If I'm correct, in 1936 Studebaker only had the 'Dictator' and 'President' in their line-up...but both of them were available with a coupé body...

It's said "possibly model and year". My source (which is not on the internet) gives the model. I'd like you to find it, but it's not mandatory. The difference between both will be the wheelbase, of course.

Quote from: Ray B. on August 12, 2009, 04:43:25 AM

Quote from: 75america on August 11, 2009, 01:53:04 PM
#3: is this wienermobile based on a 1952 dodge chassis?

Dodge is correct, 1952 is not the year I have.
So, what kind of Dodge, and what year (you're close). Locked for you until your next answer.

Also for this one, I cant find more information. 
This model of the wienermobile was made in the period 1950-1953.  This one looks a little bit older than the better known 1952 one, so I guess 1951...

I won't be a nitpicker regarding the year, but  what kind of Dodge chassis? It is on the internet.
Still locked for 75america.

#8 is styled (if you can call it styling) like a Hanomag Kommisbrot. So is it a Hanomag?

If you read the first post, you'll see that I don't know. But if it was one, it would be a giant Kommisbrot.

Numer #2 It´s a 1928 Studebaker?

Good enough! (1929)

Quote from: Ray B. on August 12, 2009, 12:55:59 PM
I won't be a nitpicker regarding the year, but  what kind of Dodge chassis? It is on the internet.
Still locked for 75america.

:snooze:

That's right: he lost his chance. Up to you...

I believe #3 is built on a Dodge Metro chassis; the body was built by Gerstenslager in Ohio.

I er... don't know what is a Dodge Metro, and couldn't find it. But since you found Gerstenslager you must know what you're talking about. Probably it matches what my (reliable) source says.
Can you be more precise?
Locked for you, now, til your next answer.

Quote from: Ray B. on September 29, 2009, 05:21:40 AM
That's right: he lost his chance. Up to you...

I only know it's Dodge based.  And in your first post you ask only the make as an valid answer...

See also your reply # 17 ;)

Quote from: Ray B. on August 12, 2009, 12:55:59 PM
I won't be a nitpicker regarding the year, but  what kind of Dodge chassis? It is on the internet.
Still locked for 75america.

Not only the make: I was asking for "the make, possibly model and year", and locked it for you so you could be more precise.
Why didn't you reply then?

Quote from: Ray B. on September 29, 2009, 06:36:43 AM

Quote from: Ray B. on August 12, 2009, 12:55:59 PM
I won't be a nitpicker regarding the year, but  what kind of Dodge chassis? It is on the internet.
Still locked for 75america.

Not only the make: I was asking for "the make, possibly model and year", and locked it for you so you could be more precise.
Why didn't you reply then?

Because nothing changed since my reply #18  :-[

75america, my rteply #17 concerned Productmobile #6, the Studebaker, not the Dodge.
You say that nothing changed since your reply #18. What didn't change is that the answer is somewhere on the internet and you didn't find it.

I am just trying to apply some simple rules, without making a fuss about it:
when a puzzler gives an incomplete answer, the point usually goes to the one who completes it. To avoid being unfair, we often lock puzzles for a certain time in favor of the one who gave the first answer. You've had about 6 weeks: don't you think others could try their luck?

@ Ray B

You are the owner of the puzzle so you make the rules for it.
If I can't give you all the requested information within a reasonable time, so be it.

I only thought that because of the text ' Give us the make, possibly model and year' in your first post, the model name and year were not mandatory. (But English is not my mother language so I probably misunderstand it)
No problem if this one is open for all again, because I can't find the model name of the Dodge it is based on.

As for the Wienermobile - I guess it was based on a truck chassis (although all of the around billion pages I've visited say only "based on a customized Dodge chassis"). So a 1952 Power Wagon maybe?

Edit: After further thinking I've decide a Poer Wagon would be too big. So a Dodge Route Van maybe? Or a simple B-Series truck?

Bump?

Ray B. won't be a frequent visitor for some period, so, please be patient!

Quote from: Otto Puzzell on September 29, 2009, 05:41:03 AM
I believe #3 is built on a Dodge Metro chassis; the body was built by Gerstenslager in Ohio.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I don't mind you sticking to it, Otto, if you can show us what a "Dodge Metro" is. I can't find any such thing. The name I have is a more generic one (although official). An remember, only the chassis was used. So a name like "package delivery panel" would be meaningless.

Quote from: Ray B. on January 16, 2010, 07:31:14 AM
I don't mind you sticking to it, Otto, if you can show us what a "Dodge Metro" is. I can't find any such thing. The name I have is a more generic one (although official). An remember, only the chassis was used. So a name like "package delivery panel" would be meaningless.

Is none of my guesses correct?

Quote from: ImpishGrin on January 16, 2010, 09:28:45 AM

Quote from: Ray B. on January 16, 2010, 07:31:14 AM
I don't mind you sticking to it, Otto, if you can show us what a "Dodge Metro" is. I can't find any such thing. The name I have is a more generic one (although official). An remember, only the chassis was used. So a name like "package delivery panel" would be meaningless.

Is none of my guesses correct?

Dodge Route Van falls in the same category as "Package Delivery Panel". As for B-series trucks, you may be right, but on the brochures I have Dodge trucks series are identified in another  manner. So, prove me wrong or give me this (very simple) ID for this chassis.

Dodge 3/4-Ton?

Not that, but you're on your way (unless Otto gets there first)

Well, the B-Series trucks (1948-1953) were made as half-ton, 3/4-ton and one-ton models. So let's try again: Dodge B-Series one-ton truck chassis?

Bingo!

The number 6's identification (a Studebaker) isn't complete yet.
As soon has someone fills this gap, I'll tally the points, but will leave it in this section until the last two, which may be harder, are found (2 points each).

As for No8. It is from 1931 and the original article doesn't mention a word on its chassis: THERE seems to be no end to the ingenuity of advertising men; they pop up everywhere with devices that attract attention by their novelty and ingenuity. An outstanding case in point is that of a Berlin advertising man who has rigged up a novel contrivance on an automobile that creates widespread gaping as it travels through the streets of Berlin. The car, shown in the photo at the left, has mounted on it a powerful loud speaker in the form of a huge drum, on the heads of which are painted the actors of the feature attraction. Announcements, music, etc., are furnished by a gramaphone hooked to the speaker. At night, the attractiveness of the device is accentuated by means of vari-colored lights arranged inside the drum. The driver operates the speaker.

Fine!
At least you found my original source and it's usually worth one point.
I'll save the other for whoever gives us the chassis. A very slim chance for this, but we've seen it happen.

Well, I have an idea on where Modern Mechanics sourced this picture from in 1931. I will visit a library in June, wher I can see that magazine. I'll bookmark this one now

I had saved N°7 for a quite long time, but – same as in pnegyesi's case – no infos about chassis or original car:

One point for you too then.
Now I just came to see that the make and approximate year, even if the magazine doesn't say it, is quite obvious.

The ad dates from 1934 and the car judging by the wheels could be a 1930 Maybach..

The wheels point in another direction, and so does a precise trademark of this make.

I'm not an expert on this terrain. To me most of them look pretty much the same..
Let's invite others to make a more educated guess.

I'd say it is an Adler, probably a Favorit

Quote from: Ray B. on April 30, 2010, 03:40:07 AM
Fine!
At least you found my original source and it's usually worth one point.
I'll save the other for whoever gives us the chassis. A very slim chance for this, but we've seen it happen.

:crap: I've had these pictures sitting on my computer for months now. Never thought that posting the "originals" here would be worth a point  :bag:

Sorry about that, Guido. So did pnegyesi and Allemano, apparently, but they were faster.
And pnegyesi only replied because I had posted a reminder of this old puzzle, not because I had promised a point, which I didn't.
I eventually decided it was worth one because in such cases, when the picture comes from an old magazine, it usually gives an identification for the car. So the job is to find the source.

You can still earn your own point by finding the original car (I only ask the make and year, given 1 or 2).

@pnegyesi: not an Adler.

Ray, do you have the right make for sure?

95% sure. The 5% being because it's not confirmed by the source, and the photo quality isn't topnotch. But I know these cars well and to me there's no mistake. I'll show examples.

Brennabor?

No. Look in another direction.

German manufacturer?

Nope.

Maybe a late twenties Buick? ('28 Master Six) The level line of the bonnet makes me think about this..

a 1929 Cadillac is another possibility..

It cannot be a Cadillac, I'll explain why. And if a GM car, it sould be earlier than 1928, last year for the drumlike headlights.
But I had foreseen some strong resemblances of  Buicks with the puzzle car.  Yet I believe that my proposal is more correct. When you find it we'll declare this solved. Locked for you 48 hours.

All right. In the end I'll say that Allemano's guess, a Buick (but 1926-27) is even with mine (1927-28 Packard).
Let's get picky (paying no attention to what's behind the firewall and has been modified.
I proposed a Packard because they had an unmistakable hood shape. Seen from the front you have a rounded bulge in the center, then on both sides a flat part, maybe two inches wide. That flat part accounts for the protruding shape that you see on pictures taken from this angle.
Packard 1, Buick 0
Packard also had very commonly disc wheels with the same 6 bolts setup and an hexagonal red center.
Packard 2, Buick 0
But I realized that Buicks had an approaching hood shape, with a less wider flat part, before 1929 (Cadillacs never had that).
Packards were much more common with sidemounts, but some Buicks had them too.
Buicks almost never sported disc wheels, but they were optional. And they were less concave than the Packard's, as it seems to be in the puzzle car. They came with our without a red center, depending on images.
Packard 2, Buick 1
Last but not least, you often saw on these Buicks that protective plate below the door sill than you see on the puzzle car. I didn't see it on Packards.
Packard 2, Buick 2

And a point for Allemano.

Now I'm still uncertain but think the edge of the cooler refers to a 1925/26 Packard. Probably something like that:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g106/pan1968/1926Packard.jpg)

Oh I see, you already made some own research..

with protective plates.. ;)

Here is a 1926 Buick with protective plates that look more like it (as in my former Buick picture).  And disc wheels, 6 wheel nuts too,  that would look more like it unless... I hadn't seen these bolts on the outside rim!
Youre right, the radiator edge is much more Packard.  There can be endless discussion. We must never forget that, just like now, people changed things on cars.

75america 3 points (I gave up waiting for him to give us the model of the #6 Studebaker. It's a Dictator).
Allemano 2 points
Joaoa, Impishgrin, Guido66, pnegyesi 1 point

Points tallied. Still open for final ID of #7

Productmobile #7 might have been built upon the chassis of an Opel 15/40 (built between 1927 and 1929).

I think Grobmotorix could be right!

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g106/pan1968/opeb43b.jpg)

This is the Opel 12/50

They got that certain edge on the cooler as well:

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g106/pan1968/30caop4-20_IPkennzeichen_Baydekarte.jpg)

And the bonnet looks exactly the same!

True about the hood, but the hood only: look at the wheel hubs and the fenders, front and rear. The wheels don't match well and the fenders have a vertical side slab (is this the right way to say it), that the puzzle car hasn't got at all.
It's not because we're in Germany that it's a german car. Packards and Buicks were abundant in Europe.

I'm searching for some better pics, but still, I believe it could be an Opel.
Would be more likely in the city of Berlin..

On the Coffee Car the diameter of the circle described by the wheel nuts is still different from the Buick and Packard. The circle is at least wider on Opel wheels

I don't think you can't measure that with precision on such grainy pictures. Looks all the same to me.
Once again, I believe that we can discuss this endlessly. I'll point at two details that point, the first in a direction, the second in another
Here are two more pictures of Opels from your source (note that the smaller models have four nut wheels):
1-  What may indicate that Opel is the right answer is the space between the firewall and the windshield, shorter in the Opel and the puzzle car. But it may vary beween models of the same brand.
2- Look again at the fenders and check what I've said. Those on the puzzle car match the american cars' not the Opel's at all.
Let's admit that we're not sure.

Well, look at the Wheels, the bolts, the fixing of the Spare wheel, the bonnet rips, the lines of the cooler mask.

I´m quite sure it is the 10-15 and no other Opel.

Stop! Are we going to be able to end this debate someday? I'll caption the picture as a Packard, Buick or Opel and hope I will please everyone...

Quote from: grobmotorix on May 04, 2010, 12:42:33 AM
Well, look at the Wheels, the bolts,
No difference with the Buick to me
The fixing of the Spare wheel,
It's fixed like this in almost any car. I had a picture of a Packard with the same ornament on the spare wheel cover but didn't attach it.
The bonnet rips, the lines of the cooler mask.
Except what I wrote above, they're quite the same on the Packard.

I´m quite sure it is the 10-15 and no other Opel.

... and something you missed: the protective plates below the door sill are wider and less rounder on the puzzle car than on the  Opel.

..and the lights are not drum-shaped..


Why you want to stop the debate?
I always was of the opinion that this site is about finding the true identity of cars – as accurate as possible!
Are you only dissapointed it possibly could be a boring Opel and not a much more glamerous American? ;D

Of course you're the boss of your own puzzle!

but if you don't mind I do some further research to my own pleasure...  ;)

Quote from: Allemano on May 04, 2010, 04:31:16 AM
..and the lights are not drum-shaped.
Why you want to stop the debate?
I always was of the opinion that this site is about finding the true identity of cars – as accurate as possible!
Are you only dissapointed it possibly could be a boring Opel and not a much more glamerous American? ;D

The lights, true (but an earlier model could have drum-shaped lights).
And I forgot to remind Grobmotorix about the fenders: they have an outer lip that you find on the Packard, on the Buick Limo but on NONE of the Opels. Why would the builder change the fenders?
If I'm disappointed it would rather be to have believed I had found the correct make and discover that other could match too.

So, keep it open. I don't know if there will ever be an evidence conclusive enough for me to give the second point, but let's go on.

Before I post a solution to one of the two unidentified productmobiles, I have to share a little story with you.
When I saw that there's a German vehicle from 1931 and another from 1934 I instantly knew that the original pictures came from Motor magazine. It was a lavish monthly, published from the 1910s to the 1940s. If you ever met the French Omnia magazine, you get the idea.
I recalled that there are no volumes of Motor in Hungarian libraries, but then I checked out the on-line catalog of the Technical University Library and saw that they had 1931 indeed. So today I went to the depot of the Library - the place where I usually check out various years of Automobile Revue (and find nice puzzles and materials for my auto history class). They know that I am a kind of automobile history freak, and as the manager of the depot was at hand he showed me a couple of magazines awaiting to be sent to the shredder. I immediately jumped into action and saved 8 years of Automotor Journal (a British publication from the 1910s), a couple years of La France Automobile and about 2 years of Autocar. It was this very puzzle, which led me to saving these beautiful publications!!! Thank you

And now, onto Productmobiles. I found the 1931 one, relating the Berlin Wintergarten Varieté. The car was based on a 1-ton Brennabor chassis. Please find enclosed a picture and a description in German
As for the 1934 productmobile - you have to wait until June when I will get to Austria and as I have to do some research there, I'll check out the relevant issues of Motor then.

:applause:

Well, someone else has to do the translation from German :)

What a story. It´just unbelievable that someone would just throw away magazines like those...

Congratulations! Enjoy them...

 :applause: :applause: :applause:

Pnegyesi, you are in invaluable recruit for Autopuzzles! I didn't think this would ever be found. But it is about the tenth time I feel this way and an Autopuzzler comes up with the answer.
As Allemano said:

Quote from: Allemano on May 04, 2010, 04:31:16 AM

I always was of the opinion that this site is about finding the true identity of cars – as accurate as possible!

Grobmotorix will translate it later, but what's left of my German studies says it's built on a one ton Brennabor Chassis.
You've got the point, right now.

I don't think I'll give another for the basis of Productmobile #8, in the meantime, unless someone (you?) comes up with  some kind of evidence, because there's no certainty about it.

 :hail: :hail:

Thanks. There are many similar stories from the last 15 years or so. Sometimes we are lucky and arrive on time to save magazines, one-off academic research materials, sometimes we are too late. Just a couple of weeks ago got wind of news that another library collection is being dismantled. We arrived too late - a 1916 photo album, comprising beautiful illustrations of Magyar Waggon and Gépgyár (Rába)'s product range disappeared. There are not too many copies left of this album :(

And we'll see about the other Productmobile in June

Well, it was hard work for me, but I hope you will understand everything.

So, here´s the translation of the subtext of the Brennabor productmobile photography:

"The special purpose of advertising is even emphasized by its strange body modifications.
This advertising vehicle of the Wintergarten-Varieté has been presented at the Radio Exhibition.
It´s equipped with an amplifier a for radio and record broadcasting.
The vehicle also contains a translucent, lighted area for advertising space that would even be able to display "Double-8" movies.
The whole bodywork rests on a 1-ton chassis, built by Brennabor.
The constant electrical voltage generator and the ac/dc converter have been attached next to each other on cross beams below the vehicle´s floor pan.
All the electrical apparatus to be operated was placed in the interiour of the cabin, at the back window.
The interiour had to leave as much space as necessary for two persons, the driver and the operator."

Brennabor´s were produced very near to Berlin, so it is most likely that the bodywork has been built by Buhne or Luchterhand & Freytag, which both were renowned companies in producing special vehicles like that.

Wow thanks! Just was working on the same task.., but still on the first lines..  ;)

Ich hasse deutsche Schachtelsätze.... :'(

I never researched in public libraries in Germany, but after I've read pnegyesi's story I will include them as well....

You can never substitute research in libraries and archives with the internet. The net is a nice tool and a great additional resource, but I still enjoy spending time in archives :)

I hadn't tallied the point for this one yet .
There may be a last one to earn on N°7 because we can't make up our minds whether it's based on an Opel, Buick, or Packard. But let's move this to the solved section anyway. Rigt now the count goes like this:
75 America, 3 points
Allemano, pnegyesi, 2 points
Joao, Impishgrin, Guido 66, 1 point

Well, unfortunately Motor is not available at the Austrian National Library. Will anyone be visiting Münich in the not so distant future? At the Deutsches Museum Library, the answer could be found.