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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2010 => Topic started by: Allemano on May 05, 2010, 05:50:22 PM

Title: Solved: 409. by Allemano - Packard 8 for General Koenig designed by L.L. Lepoix built by C.R.A.S. and Spohn
Post by: Allemano on May 05, 2010, 05:50:22 PM
Please respond below if you know the make and model designation of this car.
Furthermore I'd like to know the client for it was built, the coachbuilder and who was responsible for the design.
One point for the right and complete answer!

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Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on May 12, 2010, 08:28:41 AM
next level.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: DeAutogids.nl on May 12, 2010, 08:35:10 AM
Russian?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on May 12, 2010, 08:46:55 AM
Not from there.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: DeAutogids.nl on May 12, 2010, 08:55:16 AM
American?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on May 12, 2010, 08:58:41 AM
Certain parts are American...
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: DeAutogids.nl on May 12, 2010, 09:26:48 AM
I vaguely remember seeing a picture like this with a Jonckheere coachwork. Does it have Belgian parts?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on May 12, 2010, 09:32:50 AM
No.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on May 25, 2010, 09:38:04 AM
Professionals!
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on May 26, 2010, 09:05:17 AM
:bump:
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Paul Jaray on May 26, 2010, 09:07:18 AM
I think I saw it but have no time...is this car related to (at least) another one, british (probably) prototype already present here as a puzzle?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on May 26, 2010, 09:13:53 AM
I think I saw it but have no time...is this car related to (at least) another one, british (probably) prototype already present here as a puzzle?
Not related to any British prototype(wouldn't call it a prototype at all).
I think this car is very interisting for a certain kind of car collectors...
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: guido66 on May 26, 2010, 11:56:04 AM
Military car collectors?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on May 26, 2010, 11:57:48 AM
No.. ;D
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: guido66 on May 26, 2010, 12:47:08 PM
Is it actually a scale model?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on May 26, 2010, 01:32:21 PM
Did somebody famous die in this vehicle?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on May 26, 2010, 01:48:16 PM
Though the photo was made at a rather depressive location I'm not aware of any person that passed away in this car.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: guido66 on May 26, 2010, 03:08:40 PM
was it made for or did it appear in a movie?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on May 26, 2010, 03:15:18 PM
Not to my knowledge.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Ray B. on May 27, 2010, 12:03:00 PM
I sense some Buick somewhere. Am I right?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on May 27, 2010, 12:19:21 PM
No, your intuition is playing tricks on you..
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Paul Jaray on May 27, 2010, 12:26:46 PM
UK?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on May 27, 2010, 12:28:27 PM
In reply #11 I've said it's not British. That includes the whole UK.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on May 27, 2010, 12:28:54 PM
I'm getting a Packard vibe.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on May 27, 2010, 12:30:10 PM
I'm getting a Packard vibe.
That must feel good! :) It's indeed Packard based!
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Paul Jaray on May 27, 2010, 12:33:50 PM
In reply #11 I've said it's not British. That includes the whole UK.
You said it's not ... British ... I thought it was a sort of a hint...
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on May 27, 2010, 12:35:21 PM
Sorry, I did confuse you.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Paul Jaray on May 27, 2010, 12:39:01 PM
It was a long shot, I knew it... ;D
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Arunas on May 27, 2010, 12:46:46 PM
So, is it fully American?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on May 27, 2010, 12:52:15 PM
So, is it fully American?
Not at all! (reply #5)
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: DynaMike on June 02, 2010, 05:47:35 AM
Is the coachwork done in Central Europe?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on June 03, 2010, 07:30:27 AM
Yes!
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: DynaMike on June 03, 2010, 01:57:24 PM
Czechoslovakia?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on June 03, 2010, 02:31:06 PM
No.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: pnegyesi on June 03, 2010, 02:55:09 PM
Poland?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on June 03, 2010, 03:56:12 PM
No.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Amsterdam on June 03, 2010, 05:06:14 PM
Austria?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on June 04, 2010, 01:43:49 AM
No.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: pnegyesi on June 04, 2010, 02:05:23 AM
Romania?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on June 04, 2010, 02:08:52 AM
Would you say that Romania is part of Central Europe? ;)
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: pnegyesi on June 04, 2010, 02:46:23 AM
You tend to add Switzerland to Central Europe, so why not :)

BTW, Swiss?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on June 04, 2010, 03:13:12 AM
No.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: yves on June 04, 2010, 04:21:01 AM
Hungary ?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: pnegyesi on June 04, 2010, 04:27:54 AM
Do you consider the Baltic countries Central Europe?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on June 04, 2010, 04:31:53 AM
I'll throw in with Liechtenstein
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on June 04, 2010, 05:04:47 AM
I'll throw in with Liechtenstein
:shakehead:
It isn't Monaco, San Marino, Vatican & Andorra either...
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on June 04, 2010, 05:05:48 AM
..and it's neither from Hungary nor any Baltic country.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: pnegyesi on June 04, 2010, 05:16:01 AM
Slovenia?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on June 04, 2010, 05:18:13 AM
Not from Slovenia as well.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on June 04, 2010, 05:30:37 AM
The Duchy of Grand Fenwick?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: pnegyesi on June 04, 2010, 05:43:13 AM
Croatia?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on June 04, 2010, 06:13:29 AM
Not from Croatia not from any fantasy state.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on June 04, 2010, 06:14:34 AM
(http://wikitravel.org/upload/shared//thumb/5/5a/Central_Europe_Regions.png/350px-Central_Europe_Regions.png)
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: pnegyesi on June 04, 2010, 06:37:41 AM
So it is German. It is a rather free interpretation of Central Europe :)
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on June 04, 2010, 06:43:36 AM
Yes from Germany!
According to WIKI Central Europe there isn't only one definition. Some source say Romania and the BeNeLux are part of CE as well, but usually it's like shown in the pic I've posted in my last reply.
Switzerland is mentioned in almost all definitions, but rarely Croatia...
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: pnegyesi on June 04, 2010, 06:59:26 AM
Well, you're German, do you think you reside in Central Europe? Nah, you live in Western Europe, a region which we secretly envy :)
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on June 04, 2010, 07:29:06 AM
Before 1989 the BRD was per definition a Western European state but after re-union we stepped a bit more in the center..

Whatever!  :P

Back to work again!
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on June 05, 2010, 04:25:21 AM
Hitler was known to travel by Packard occasionally - was this one associated with the little dictator?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: yves on June 05, 2010, 05:45:06 AM
Coachwork by Spohn ?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on June 05, 2010, 06:13:11 AM
Coachwork by Spohn ?

YES! I lock this for you to find the rest of required infos! Your puzzle for 48h!

Hitler was known to travel by Packard occasionally - was this one associated with the little dictator?
:shakehead:
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on June 05, 2010, 06:22:43 AM
I was gonna say Spohn, but yves was looking over my shoulder, so I changed my answer.  :P
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on June 05, 2010, 07:24:49 AM
[...]
I think this car is very interisting for a certain kind of car collectors...
This referred to the recent Post War Spohn topic.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: yves on June 13, 2010, 04:12:18 PM
Sorry, I didn't find additional information about that car.
I said Spohn because I knew that this coachbuilder had made modifications on American cars, both before and after WWII (and apparently during WWII as well...)
If someone knows better, it's up to him.
There is certainly a very interesting story about that car, first of all how could an American car have been imported in Germany during the war...
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: D-type on June 13, 2010, 07:06:12 PM
Sorry, I didn't find additional information about that car.
I said Spohn because I knew that this coachbuilder had made modifications on American cars, both before and after WWII (and apparently during WWII as well...)
If someone knows better, it's up to him.
There is certainly a very interesting story about that car, first of all how could an American car have been imported in Germany during the war...

Well, the USA was neutral until December 1941.  After that cars could theoretically have been imported via a neutral country.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on June 14, 2010, 04:28:44 AM
It wasn't unusual for Spohn to re-body cars that were not new.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on July 02, 2010, 03:35:17 PM
Well known the designer is...
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: João on July 02, 2010, 03:38:45 PM
Josef Eiwanger Jr?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on July 02, 2010, 03:40:21 PM
Not him, not from the inner Spohn circle..
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: guido66 on July 02, 2010, 04:43:22 PM
It looks inspired by this, so Neumann-Neander?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on July 03, 2010, 02:36:22 AM
no.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on July 03, 2010, 03:32:08 AM
We had that designer before, but on a completely different make.. The historical (and visual!) background seems to be quite similar, though.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on July 03, 2010, 03:37:58 AM
PJ?

Wendler
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on July 03, 2010, 03:45:20 AM
Neither Paul Jaray nor from one of the other aerodynamic trailblazers.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on July 03, 2010, 03:46:30 AM
Err. Wendler I thought is a coachbuilder as well, but this car is made by Spohn...
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on July 03, 2010, 03:53:47 AM
Wendeler designed a Maybach, constructed by Spohn, that resembled this Packard.

OK - how about Wunibald Kamm
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on July 03, 2010, 03:57:38 AM
OK - how about Wunibald Kamm
Neither Paul Jaray nor from one of the other aerodynamic trailblazers.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on July 03, 2010, 04:00:38 AM
This designer had a very wide range of activities
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on July 03, 2010, 04:01:03 AM
Sorry - we seem to be posting over each other. I'll cool it.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on August 23, 2010, 05:30:10 PM
This designer had a very wide range of activities
One of his is shown in one of the current group puzzles..
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: João on August 23, 2010, 10:08:20 PM
Walter Gropius?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: João on August 23, 2010, 10:16:52 PM
Or Alex Tremulis?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on August 24, 2010, 04:04:09 AM
hehe, that would be too easy... none of the above! ;D
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Oguerrerob on August 24, 2010, 04:36:46 AM
Brook Stevens?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on August 24, 2010, 09:05:47 AM
Brook Stevens?

It seems you don't find him in the result list, yet... ;D
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on September 01, 2010, 04:48:37 AM
Last call before it does its way to the BH
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 02, 2010, 04:56:07 AM
An industrial designer?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on September 02, 2010, 05:04:58 AM
Yes, automotive and industrial designer I would say.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 02, 2010, 05:09:06 AM
French?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on September 02, 2010, 05:12:56 AM
French?
:nod:
You're getting closer...
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 02, 2010, 05:19:25 AM
Not Raymond Loewy...
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on September 02, 2010, 05:21:37 AM
Not Raymond Loewy. If you follow one of my previous clues, you should find something..
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 02, 2010, 05:35:16 AM
Also involved in motorsports?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on September 02, 2010, 05:38:11 AM
Not that I'm aware of, but who knows? However motorsports definetely wasn't what he was famous for.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 02, 2010, 05:38:29 AM
Lepoix, perhaps. He designed a similarly swoopy motorcylce in the 1940's, and worked in Germany.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on September 02, 2010, 05:39:04 AM
Lepoix, perhaps. He designed a similarly swoopy motorcylce in the 1940's, and worked in Germany.
BINGO!
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 02, 2010, 05:41:33 AM
Woo-hoo! ;D
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 02, 2010, 05:47:45 AM
Was the customer a foreigner living in Germany?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on September 02, 2010, 05:57:52 AM
Was the customer a foreigner living in Germany?
This question implies you're on to something..
Yes, he was a foreigner living in Germany back then.
For some reason and for a certain time..
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 02, 2010, 06:39:19 AM
Was his presence related to the occupation of Germany at the end of WWII?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 02, 2010, 06:44:53 AM
Wild guess, since I can find no corroborating information - Dwight D. Eisenhower?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on September 02, 2010, 07:02:55 AM
No, the client wasn't American.
But he's on this pic as well...
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 03, 2010, 03:43:01 AM
Is the Frenchman Jean de Lattre de Tassigny?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on September 03, 2010, 03:48:49 AM
No, but do you know the one standing in the center?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 03, 2010, 03:52:58 AM
Frenchman is Kœnig, which makes the central figure Tedder?
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 03, 2010, 03:54:39 AM
Nope - Tedder's on the right.  :P
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on September 03, 2010, 03:58:40 AM
You spotted Marie-Pierre Kœnig which finally closes this chapter! :applause:
Man in the center is the already mentioned Dwight Eisenhower. Why did I asked for the man in the center?  :doh:
The whole story of this car follows later!
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on September 03, 2010, 04:20:57 AM
Short summary:
This car was ordered by French General Pierre Koenig who was governor of the French zone in Germany (1945-49). He told Louis Lepoix (who was a French soldier back then) to design a Packard based car. The rough bodywork was done by the C.R.A.S. (Centre de Reperation Automobile Sud) in Friedrichshafen which was kind of a huge repair garage of the French forces.
The paintjob and the entire interior was made by Spohn in Ravensburg. The car was delivered in 1949.

I'm not sure if there was a relation between Lepoix and Spohn at all. The sketch illustrates that the Koenig Packard based on a 1932 chassis.
The pic below shows the unfinished body at C.R.A.S.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on September 03, 2010, 04:25:35 AM
I give two points for this as it was really hard and not to find on the internet. Two well deserved points for Otto Puzell who fulfilled three of the requirements:
1. Packard
2. Lepoix
3. Pierre König


Oh, and Yves guessed the coachbuilder right.. :-\
Hmmm.. I'm too generous today, so, I give him a point as well.
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 03, 2010, 04:32:03 AM
That's very generous, as I didn't ID Spohn. Can yves get the second point? To satisfy the requirement of  the puzzle as posted:

Please respond below if you know the make and model designation of this car. (1932 Packard Eight)

Furthermore I'd like to know the client for it was built, (French General Pierre Koenig) the coachbuilder (Spohn and C.R.A.S.) and who was responsible for the design  (Louis Lepoix).
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Allemano on September 03, 2010, 04:35:38 AM
Already edited my last post! ;)
Title: Re: 409. by Allemano
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 03, 2010, 04:38:42 AM
I beat you by 45 seconds!  ;D
Title: Re: Solved: 409. by Allemano - Packard 8 for General Koenig designed by L.L. Lepoix built by C.R.A.S
Post by: Ray B. on September 03, 2010, 04:59:37 AM
 :hail: the both (or three) of you. This is definitely Autopuzzling at its best!
Title: Re: Solved: 409. by Allemano - Packard 8 for General Koenig designed by L.L. Lepoix built by C.R.A.S
Post by: yves on September 18, 2010, 02:50:52 PM
The sketch title says 1932, but the car itself looks more like a 1942 model. Is there an error ?
Title: Re: Solved: 409. by Allemano - Packard 8 for General Koenig designed by L.L. Lepoix built by C.R.A.S
Post by: Allemano on September 20, 2010, 12:55:58 AM
The sketch title says 1932, but the car itself looks more like a 1942 model. Is there an error ?
no, the sketch title only says it is based on a 1932 Packard chassis.

The sketch dates from 11. March 1947 (written right below the sketch)