Solved - NEH 380: Bertone or Centro Stile Alfa proposal for Alfa Spider early 1960s

Carnut · February 19, 2010, 09:10:51 AM

To earn your point you'll need to say not only what this is but what it was intended to be and who designed it:

Ultra · February 28, 2010, 02:41:46 PM

Alfa........

Carnut · February 28, 2010, 06:39:17 PM

Quote from: Ultra on February 28, 2010, 02:41:46 PM
Alfa........

Really?!!

Ultra · March 05, 2010, 04:53:10 PM

It is an Alfa. It was intended to be a convertible and an Italian designed it.

Carnut · March 06, 2010, 06:44:47 AM

Quote from: Ultra on March 05, 2010, 04:53:10 PM
It is an Alfa. It was intended to be a convertible and an Italian designed it.

A cigar but no point...

Ultra · March 06, 2010, 12:33:38 PM

I do enjoy a good cigar.

Carnut · March 06, 2010, 12:42:50 PM

Quote from: Ultra on March 06, 2010, 12:33:38 PM
I do enjoy a good cigar.

Goes very nicely with a single malt...

Oguerrerob · March 08, 2010, 07:19:48 AM

Alfa Romeo Spider

Carnut · March 08, 2010, 08:07:18 AM

Quote from: Oguerrerob on March 08, 2010, 07:19:48 AM
Alfa Romeo Spider

Er quite so, yes.
But that doesn't answer any of the questions posed!

Carnut · March 10, 2010, 10:22:00 AM

Sure the Experts will soon have the full story sorted out...

How about a nice rear view to help?

Amsterdam · March 10, 2010, 12:34:49 PM

My guess (not sure)is that it is a Bertone roadster proposal, designed by Scaglione, ment to become the convertible version of the Alfa Romeo Giulietta (spider). This design was rejected by Alfa. They choose the Pininfarina design who according to Alfa had more of a fraternal appearance when seen alongside the Sprint coupe.

Carnut · March 11, 2010, 05:24:21 AM

Quote from: Amsterdam on March 10, 2010, 12:34:49 PM
My guess (not sure)is that it is a Bertone roadster proposal, designed by Scaglione, ment to become the convertible version of the Alfa Romeo Giulietta (spider). This design was rejected by Alfa. They choose the Pininfarina design who according to Alfa had more of a fraternal appearance when seen alongside the Sprint coupe.

Good reply but not quite there yet.
It's apparently not actually known for sure if it was Bertone or Centro Stile Alfa who did it. It was rejected by Alfa in favour of a Pininfarina alternative, but not for the Giulietta Spider.
You should be able to get it now? Locked for you for 24 hours!

Amsterdam · March 11, 2010, 08:24:32 AM

Still not a 100% sure,but how about: Rejected proposal design what was ment to be the 1966 Alfa Romeo 1600 Spider Duetto $:-\$

Carnut · March 11, 2010, 09:46:42 AM

Quote from: Amsterdam on March 11, 2010, 08:24:32 AM

Still not a 100% sure,but how about: Rejected proposal design what was ment to be the 1966 Alfa Romeo 1600 Spider Duetto $:-\$

Absolutely!
The Duetto was the Pininfarina design that was chosen over this very Giulia-like proposal. Wonder if Giugiaro ever felt a bit ripped-off over this design?!

And Touring were chosen to produce the GTC version of Bertone's Giulia Sprint in fairly tiny numbers. Nothing like sharing the favours around!

Allemano · March 11, 2010, 10:19:09 AM

I'm afraid it has a quite distinctive name and the designer isn't unknown at all.

The strange thing is the Bertone badge on the dash....

Carnut · March 11, 2010, 10:41:25 AM

OK, couldn't see the dash from where I was sitting...

I got the info from a website where the current owner and restorer of the car, an architect named Corrado Lopresti, was discussing its background and he seemed to agree that they weren't sure if it was a Bertone design or if it was done by Ernesto Cattoni at Centro Stile Alfa.

Of course, you can't necessarily believe everything you find on the Internet...

What was its specific name then?

Allemano · March 11, 2010, 10:54:56 AM

Let's wait for 75america's reply. I'm curious what he has to say...

Carnut · March 11, 2010, 11:18:28 AM

Quote from: Allemano on March 11, 2010, 10:54:56 AM
Let's wait for 75america's reply. I'm curious what he has to say...

OK.. I just read through the in-depth article on the Italian website I used as my source, and although it gives the name of the car as Alfa Romeo Giulia Spider prototype it reaches the conclusion that this was not a prototype of the Giulia GTC despite the fact it used many styling cues from the Giulia Sprint (and possible interchangeable parts too) but should be considered the first prototype of the 1600 Duetto.

Furthermore it reaches the specific conclusion that it was the work of Ernesto Cattoni at Centro Stile Alfa and not Bertone! It is of course very possible they started off with a Giulia Sprint, which might be why it has some Bertone badging...?

75america · March 11, 2010, 12:42:18 PM

I know this car as the '1963 Alfa Romeo Giulia Spider prototype' with S/N 105.03*00002.

The history of this car is also not clear to me.

Type 105.03 is the type designation for the ... 1600 Spider (Duetto), but that car (production version) only appeared in 1966.
The Giulia GTC is type 105.25

My theory of this car is that it started as a Bertone design proposal (see picture 1 and 3 I added in my post), and that Alfa Romeo Centro stile ( E. Catoni) modified that car later on (front and rear, but keeping the rest. So also the dashboard which might explain the presence of the Bertone logo).
And that in the end, it was rejected in favor of the Pininfarina proposal.

I added also another design proposal from Catoni (picture 2).

Back in the days, modifying showcars/prototypes happened all the time (look at the Alfa Romeo 2000 Sole, Alfa Romeo 2000 Sestrière, Alfa Romeo 6C 3000,... ) so my theory might be correct, but it is just a guess.

@ Carnut, can you please PM me the website where you found your information?

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Solved - NEH 380: Bertone or Centro Stile Alfa proposal for Alfa Spider early 1960s