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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2010 => Topic started by: Paul Jaray on June 17, 2010, 09:34:21 AM

Title: Solved -PJ334- Cisitalia 1100 Millemiglia 1954
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 17, 2010, 09:34:21 AM


Know what it is?

Please, respond below and identify this car.
As always, detailed answers are greatly appreciated by all. 
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Thanks!
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 17, 2010, 09:42:10 AM
This one goes directly to the top:
I have a make, a model, a year and so on...but I've never heard of this model...that's why I'd like some proofs to support your guesses...
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Carnut on June 17, 2010, 10:20:54 AM
Is it a Serenissima?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 17, 2010, 10:34:58 AM
Not Serenissima...
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Arunas on June 17, 2010, 10:36:28 AM
Bizzarrini?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 17, 2010, 10:38:28 AM
Not Bizzarrini...
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 17, 2010, 10:40:18 AM
This one is not obscure and in few guesses you'll find the maker.
I won't lock it for the maker alone and 1 point will go to the Maker-Model-Year answer and another 1 for any support to that guess.
It's not hard.
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Arunas on June 17, 2010, 10:47:46 AM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on June 17, 2010, 10:40:18 AM
It's not hard.

:D It is a very subjective notion.
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 17, 2010, 10:48:37 AM
Time will show you if I'm right.... ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Allemano on June 17, 2010, 10:50:15 AM
The easiest guess would be Ferrari Dino..
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Carnut on June 17, 2010, 10:51:34 AM
Ferrari?!
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 17, 2010, 10:57:32 AM
Not THAT easy and not a Ferrari... ;D
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: 75america on June 17, 2010, 11:34:36 AM
I guess it's Italian.  ISO?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 17, 2010, 11:38:20 AM
It is italian, but not an ISO.
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: yves on June 17, 2010, 05:39:01 PM
Osca ?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 17, 2010, 06:10:46 PM
Not OSCA...
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Arunas on June 18, 2010, 01:19:47 AM
Maserati?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Allemano on June 18, 2010, 02:02:30 AM
It looks quite small. Is it from one of the 'Etceterini' makes?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 03:28:38 AM
Not Maserati...
...it depends on what is your idea of Etceterini...
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: woodinsight on June 18, 2010, 03:57:04 AM
ASA?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 04:10:20 AM
Not an ASA.
If I had to decide, I won't call it an Etceterini, but ...
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: woodinsight on June 18, 2010, 04:22:25 AM
Fiat based?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Carnut on June 18, 2010, 04:30:22 AM
Abarth?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 04:43:22 AM
Woodinsight got my hint.
It is Fiat-based, like an Abarth (but not an Abarth)...
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: 75america on June 18, 2010, 06:10:01 AM
Giannini?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 07:07:57 AM
Not Giannini...
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Carnut on June 18, 2010, 07:23:34 AM
Moretti?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 08:14:03 AM
Not Moretti...
ASA - Abarth - ISO were somewhat closer....
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Carnut on June 18, 2010, 09:19:34 AM
Conrero?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 09:29:03 AM
Not Conrero...
We are talking about a pretty known name, like Abarth or ISO ...and a regular maker...
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Arunas on June 18, 2010, 09:33:46 AM
OSI?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 09:38:10 AM
Not OSI...this maker is quite a milestone....for different reasons...
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Carnut on June 18, 2010, 11:00:54 AM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 09:29:03 AM
Not Conrero...
We are talking about a pretty known name, like Abarth or ISO ...and a regular maker...

Alfa Romeo?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 11:06:21 AM
Less known and less active...
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: 75america on June 18, 2010, 11:18:42 AM
Stanguellini?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 11:29:30 AM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 04:10:20 AM
If I had to decide, I won't call it an Etceterini, but ...
Not a Stanguellini...(I would definetly call a Stanguellini an Etceterini  ;D )
You cannot love cars without knowing these cars...
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Carnut on June 18, 2010, 11:31:45 AM
De Tomaso?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 11:34:46 AM
Not De Tomaso.
I will stress 2 very important clues:
"Fiat based"  and  "a milestone"... 
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: 75america on June 18, 2010, 11:43:37 AM
Cisitalia?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Carnut on June 18, 2010, 11:46:43 AM
Autobianchi?!
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 11:48:31 AM
Quote from: 75america on June 18, 2010, 11:43:37 AM
Cisitalia?
:applause:
..and for the point, I need a model name and a year.
Cisitalia XXXX XXXXXXXXXXX 19XX
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Carnut on June 18, 2010, 12:16:49 PM
Cisitalia was also one of my first ideas but after I trawled through all the websites dedicated to them and found nothing like it I decided that couldn't be the answer, hence all the daft suggestions...!
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 12:21:10 PM
This car is a mistery...the name is quite easy, expecially knowing that it was Fiat (that Fiat) based and....
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 03:51:10 PM
the year is mid 50s (not '55) and there is a number and a race in the name...
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Arunas on June 18, 2010, 04:30:42 PM
Millemiglia?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: 75america on June 18, 2010, 04:35:51 PM
So the year must be 1954 or 1956.
According to the catalogue raisonné Cisitalia, there was no Cisitalia participating in the Mille Miglia of 1954 and 1956,
but in 1954, a Cisitalia was participating in the Targa Florio. 
I do not know which one, but in 1954 the 33DF Voloradenta was made.
So my guess: 33DF TargaFlorio 1954
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 05:04:08 PM
QuoteI won't lock it for the maker alone and 1 point will go to the Maker-Model-Year answer and another 1 for any support to that guess.
Quote from: Arunas on June 18, 2010, 04:30:42 PM
Millemiglia?
Partially correct.
Quote from: 75america on June 18, 2010, 04:35:51 PM
So the year must be 1954 or 1956.
According to the catalogue raisonné Cisitalia, there was no Cisitalia participating in the Mille Miglia of 1954 and 1956,
but in 1954, a Cisitalia was participating in the Targa Florio. 
I do not know which one, but in 1954 the 33DF Voloradenta was made.
So my guess: 33DF TargaFlorio 1954
The year is correct.
This model is unknown, is probably a customized version.
The final answer is:
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: 75america on June 18, 2010, 05:10:10 PM
 ???

Cisitalia 1100 Mille Miglia 1954 ?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on June 18, 2010, 05:39:38 PM
Yes, that's the name.
This car was for sale in the 70s:
"Cisitalia 1100 Millemiglia 1954, one-off, modernized."

There is no reference to the coachbuilder...I'll give you a point now and wait for any additional info for another point.
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Bugace on July 03, 2010, 10:50:15 AM
Was this raced by Casales?
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 03, 2010, 12:35:24 PM
I found this pic in an old magazine.
The car was for sale and this is what is written in the ad:

1100 Millemiglia - 1954 - one-off, modernized, engine needs overhaul - L.800.000 (possible to exchange with high-powered bike) - Name - address - telephone - city.

Just to give you an idea, in the same magazine (1971), the price for a new Fiat-Abarth 595 Competizione was L.830.000, a new Giannini 590 GT Vallelunga L.820.000 and L.838.000 for a Renault 4 Luxe or L.880.000 for a NSU Prinz 4L.
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 03, 2010, 12:40:38 PM
I was not able to find more on this, and there is not a similar model in any book.
I suspect with "rimodernato" (modernized) the seller was referring to a totally different custom body made in recent years by an unknown coachbuilder.
If it was a race car, with a solid pedigree, the seller would have mentioned it, unless this was a destroyed racing car with a new body...
I'm sorry Bugace, but I really have no idea on this... :-\
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Bugace on July 03, 2010, 02:08:22 PM
It's not raced in Mille Miglia in '54, '55, '56, '57 or '58, then it would have not been named Cistalia.
I have traced Cistalia 1100 in this races, GP Pergusa   29.8.54. Driven by Casales. Have check official world touring races, as well as non tour races. The latter into the mid '60s, and world tour races until '58. Guess that I've spendt enough hours on this car today.
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 22, 2010, 04:20:01 PM
OK, I can move this to the solved section.
If someone has got more info, another point will be given.
Title: Re: PJ - 334
Post by: 75america on July 22, 2010, 04:59:37 PM
@ PJ: Can you change the subject title?
Title: Re: Solved -PJ334- Cisitalia 1100 Millemiglia 1954
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 22, 2010, 05:04:11 PM
Fixed!
Title: Re: Solved -PJ334- Cisitalia 1100 Millemiglia 1954
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 26, 2017, 09:02:12 AM
I finally found out who built it!!