AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!
Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2011 => Topic started by: Djetset on January 09, 2010, 07:53:05 AM
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What is this for a point please?
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Movin' Up.
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Moving' up again.
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Well, it's from the UK ;D
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Well, yes it is (that's why the photo is that strange colour, due to the pale British sunlight!) ;D
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Tojeiro?
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No, not Tojeiro.
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I have removed the colour cast on the photo - if you want I can post a corrected version (doesn't help me with identifying the car though).
Send me an email if you want it giles at gilescooper dot co dot uk
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Is there a Jaguar lurking underneath?
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It's often minor details that give the best clues, and when I saw this picture, I knew I'd seen the wheels before. The penny finally dropped today when I was looking for something else.
These are cast aluminium wheels used on some early Turner sports and racing cars from the 1950s. So pursuing that, I came across a picture, on the left below, of a Turner, thought to be chassis number 005, with the same registration number as the puzzle car, though looking quite different. However, the web page said that the car had been rebodied in 1956 in a style similar to that of the car known as chassis 004a. So I am guessing that the puzzle car is the rebodied version.
I can't find much detail about these early Turners, though this one is likely to have had a Vauxhall or Lea Francis engine. The pictures below show chassis 005 on the left, and for comparison, chassis 004a, which does look quite like the puzzle car.
It is thought this car was Chassis No. 005, Originally owned by Mr Ron Hill of Hills Fibreglass Developments Limited who would go on to supply Jack Turner with the first Turner 803 Body Shells. The car is not thought to survive today , However it is known that this car was rebodied around 1956 in a similar style to that of Chassis 004a. Registration Number 439 DRE is pictured here at Shelsley Walsh in June 1955.
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I think Tom_I is correct. The chassis no. of this early Turner is still unknown and the body would appear to have been on a different chassis at one time or the car was re-registered.
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Tom I's answer is so well researched and compelling that I'm tempted to award a point. I can't, however, it's not the answer I have. There is a Turner connection though, as the registration number was originally assigned to a Turner, but as you rightly say, this car was rechassis'd and rebodied more than once.
I'm going to lock it to Tom I for 24 hours, as you are in the right territory with your Turner answer, although this one is not a Turner!
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Thanks, but I don't think I'm going to be able to get any further with this, so if anyone else can solve it, please feel free to grab the point. :)
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That's very admirable Tom I, thank you. As you were getting so close, I think you should take a wild guess anyway, as you might just hit on the right answer!
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Okay - one last try for tonight - Kieft?
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No, not a Kieft, but arguably from a less prestigious marque.
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Fairthorpe?
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On the right lines, but not a Fairthorpe.
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Buckler then?
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Ta Da! You got it, as this is indeed the very first Rochdale model, with a GRPbody that was also used in other forms by other marques. Well done.
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The Rochdale Owners Clup page reports that the first Rochdale with GRP body was the MK VI which looks quite different...
Quote:
When GRP (Glass Reinforced Plastic) came on the scene a range of bodyshells was produced to fit any chassis. The first was the Mark VI, followed by the type 'F' and type 'C', then the ST (Sports Tourer).
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My mistake, apologize!
You meant the first shell of course not that of the particular puzzle car.
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And just to add to the puzzle surrounding this car, I spoke to the guy manning the Turner stand at the NEC Classic Car Show this weekend about this picture that was displayed on the board of the Turner cars.
He insisted it was in fact one of the first 3 Turners. He said it was a Turner chassis, and they just stuck any body on that they could lay their hands on that would fit. He reckoned this body was also used by both Buckler and Rochdale, but that the car in the puzzle picture was definitely a Turner!
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This one is very complex, ans I have also seen this same car/photo captioned as a Buckler, as well as the first Rochdale and Turner. It seems all three marques used this same body, with Buckler supplying the spaceframe chassic. And there was me thinking that life was meant to be simple in the 1950s!
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Interesting, but as I mentioned, it was actually the wheels that first made me suggest it was a Turner, rather than the bodywork. Those cast alloys with detachable rims were Turner's own design. Of course it's not impossible that they could have been used on other cars - I think some early Tojeiros had them.
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This one is very complex, ans I have also seen this same car/photo captioned as a Buckler, as well as the first Rochdale and Turner. It seems all three marques used this same body, with Buckler supplying the spaceframe chassic. And there was me thinking that life was meant to be simple in the 1950s!
Turner used a large-tube ladder chassis so did not use Buckler spaceframe chassis so far as I remember.
The other point to quibble about is that until the 803, Jack Turner did not supply "kit cars".
As Tom_I stated above it looks quite like 004a and I can see no similarity to any Rochdale body I've ever seen.
Hey-ho!
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I would agree - it looks like Turner chassis 004A
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The caption next to the photo on the Turner stand at the N.E.C. said as follows:
QUOTE
Jack's first foray into car production was building eight chassis supplied with a choice of engines, which the customer would have bodied to their own taste. One of the chassis became a Formula 2 racing car for John Webb (of Webb Corbett fame). The picture shows chassis No. 5 supplied to Ron Hill, whose company Hills Fibreglass Developments of Wednesfield produced the body.
UNQUOTE
Now I understand that the first Turner chassis were 1951/1953 and I don't believe that this body could date from then. The chassis might have done, and the car might have been rebodied much later as has been suggested. The caption might not even have referred to the puzzle photo, but there wasn't another one nearby that it might have referred to!
So it seems to be the car that sits on Turner chassis no.5 dating from 1952/3 rebodied later but don't know if the caption refers to the later body or its original one.
For those who don't know Webb Corbett they produced high-quality cut-glass crystal.
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Well Turner ch. no. 005 looked like this at one time:
(http://www.turnersportscars.co.uk/t_photos01b.jpg)
which has the same registration number as the puzzle car, which supports Carnut's analysis.
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Which is what I said back in reply #9!
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Which is what I said back in reply #9!
Yes of course it is, now I remember/look back, but it seemed to have been ignored.
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Which is what I said back in reply #9!
Quite so! I hadn't forgotten what you said!
But I don't know if the Hills Fibreglass Developments body is this one or the earlier one.
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I mention this in case anyone is interested:
Jack Turner died on Monday 7th March.
He was 94 years of age.
At least he has left a nice legacy of cars named after him so he will always be remembered.
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These pictures are of the same car, or at least of the same body on a Turner chassis!
Whether or not it's the same chassis is open to conjecture; it's said to be either chassis 004 or 005 so has been given '004A' in case they find another 004!
Either way the registration number is different..
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and car #41 has a Rochdale MkVI body fitted