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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2011 => Topic started by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 01:43:43 PM

Title: Solved: Sketched. - Karmann sketch of a Daf 55 designed by Michelotti
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 01:43:43 PM
Hope this doesn't upset Otto.
Cocky as I am I simply copied his idea. So I do apologize in advance.

Who made this drawing for which company and for what model?
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 01:45:53 PM
Paul Braq for BMW?
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 01:47:35 PM
Nope!
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 01:56:16 PM
Ercole Spada?
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 01:56:36 PM
I give you a second view:
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 01:57:33 PM
not E. Spada!
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 01:59:18 PM
Is it a proposal for an Austin?
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 02:01:11 PM
No, I'd suspected you've seen that car before...
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 02:18:01 PM
Is He Italian, like Paolo Martin?
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 02:19:14 PM
He's from Italy, but he isn't Paolo Martin.

I'm still wondering that this car doesn't look familar to you..
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 02:21:02 PM
Fiore? He's british...Michelotti?
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 02:25:46 PM
Bingo! for the first part!
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 02:26:25 PM
Michelotti for Triumph?
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 02:27:43 PM
Not Triumph.
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 02:29:56 PM
Is it a british brand?
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 02:30:56 PM
Nyet!
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 02:35:17 PM
Italian? Reminds the AR Goccia...
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 02:37:20 PM
neither Italian...
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 02:39:35 PM
German?
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 02:44:51 PM
The make isn't German, but the manufacturer is. ;)


Interisting that most of the internet sources provide wrong facts concerning the car designer.
Even more interisting/confusing that the final car was from a different brand, but from the same manufacturer.. :D
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: DynaMike on July 11, 2009, 02:45:52 PM
?? Ford Capri ??
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 02:50:58 PM
Not Ford...

BTW: I've edited my last post
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 03:17:04 PM
So, the make is not from UK, Italy or Germany, but the manufacturer is German...but the final model was made for another brand of the same manufacturer.
Is it a French make?
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 03:32:51 PM
No, it's not French.
Would you like to see the final car or at least a cropped image?
But note that it's not the car/make that I'm actually after...
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: DynaMike on July 11, 2009, 03:36:49 PM
In 1965 Karmann built a car on a VW Beetle base, that looked pretty much alike... It was designed by Hans A. Muth....
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 03:43:18 PM
As far as I know it wasn't Hans A. Muth. And there is another (Italian) name on the web, wrong as well!
But you found the correct make of the built prototype.
The sketch was penned for a completely different brand. Unfortunately it was never built.

Here is the Volkswagen by Karmann:
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: DynaMike on July 11, 2009, 03:47:17 PM
I found this in 'Markt' Sonderheft #4 (1987), a special about prototypes. But it isn't the first time information from this magazine turned out to be wrong  :(
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 03:51:15 PM
So back to the origin...is this make european?
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 03:52:51 PM
I have this issue as well. back then they weren't too accurate about their investigations.

BUT: it's not always easy to give a definete statement about authorship of car designs.
Quite often the official stories differs from the inofficial..
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 03:55:14 PM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 03:51:15 PM
I know this car...but Volkswagen is not correct, I'm afraid...

Volkswagen is correct, but the authorship of the "official" design is wrong.
VW Museum Wolfsburg still claims it was G. Giugiaro....
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 03:56:22 PM
What is left to find? The original make of the proposal? I suppose is another make of the Volkswagen Group, not a German one, so...Skoda  ;D ? Seriously, I'll say Seat.
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 03:56:35 PM
The make is European! :)
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 03:57:26 PM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 03:56:22 PM
I suppose is another make of the Volkswagen Group, not a German one, so...Skoda  ;D ?

precisely not! ;D
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 03:58:23 PM
Seat?
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 04:00:28 PM
In the original front view sketch make and designation are written on the grille/plate, but I had to veil it with Photoshop
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 04:01:01 PM
Seat is Volkswagen Group ;D
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 04:08:30 PM
The designer is Michelotti.
The sketch was for a brand (yet to be found) and later used for a german brand (Karmann-Volkswagen) that is different from the original one but of the same manufacturer but not German...if the final car is a Volkswagen, the misterious one should be one of the non-german Volkgswagen brand...Skoda or Seat....
Were am I wrong?
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 04:18:09 PM
The manufacturer was Karmann  ;), the make of the built car was Volkswagen (German), the brand of the sketched car is neiter German nor from any of other Volkswagen-Group make. It is European.
Karmann was the builder/manufacturer who was commisioned to built this Michelotti design for brand X, as well!

What's the name of this make and for which model was it sketched?
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 04:24:04 PM
Thank You.
Italian - French - British - German Daf?
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 04:26:07 PM
Great! Daf is correct!!  :)
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 04:28:17 PM
Daffodil Sport Coupe  ;D
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 04:31:47 PM
No!
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 11, 2009, 04:35:57 PM
Found it...Daf 55!
Title: Re: Sketched.
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 04:38:12 PM
 :applause: :applause: :applause:
That was fun!  :)
Title: Re: Solved: Sketched. - Karmann sketch of a Daf 55 designed by Michelotti
Post by: Allemano on July 11, 2009, 04:55:58 PM
It wasn't unusual to use the same design for different makes, but the alleged VW-Karmann-Giugiaro connection is still a mystery to me.
The finshed car for VW (Type 1 based) had asymmetrical designs on both sides. It was built 1965, but the Daf sketches are seemingly from 1966/67.
Title: Re: Solved: Sketched. - Karmann sketch of a Daf 55 designed by Michelotti
Post by: thewarlord on July 29, 2011, 09:24:58 AM
I don't think the drawings look like Giugiaro's, unlike this one for the Cheetah
Title: Re: Solved: Sketched. - Karmann sketch of a Daf 55 designed by Michelotti
Post by: Allemano on July 29, 2011, 09:31:55 AM
The Volkswagen museum in Wolfsburg captioned the silver (asymmetrical) car as one of Giugiaro's works. I have my doubts as well.
In my opinion it's a Michelotti design he used for several occasions.., but still can't confirm.
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