Ever seen this ?
If you did, please respond below and let us know the make and model of the car posted here.
I have no identification for this car myself, just some clues. So if you find it this will earn you two points.
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Thanks![/center]
Experts?
Could it be French? It doesn't look a typical American streamliner.
It's not French.
I'll say it right away so you won't have to play Phileas Fogg: it's most probably American.
Pros?
Coachbulit, for a well-known builder of trucks?
As I said above, it's for you to find and I know nothing of this vehicle. Except (this is the clue I was speaking of) that the picture was probably taken in the Milwaukee area.
I'll have to go with my standard guess of (Wisconsin's favorite son) Brooks Stevens. I'll follow that hunch and go digging.
Sure, I'd do the same. Good luck.
What about putting this one to be nursed in the Pros secret garden?
Guys, I've recently stumbled on some informations that may confirm the Milwaukee clue and lead us towards the answer. It's easily avalaible.
Anyone wants to try?
Is the chassis an International Harvester?
Maybe, but I don't know about this. The clue that I found is rather about its conception and outer shell.
conception, so the info is about the purpose of this minivan?
Conception may not be the right word. Design would be more correct.
Did you manage to get confirmation that this one was designed by Brooks Stevens after all?
This resembles some other vehicles designed by Count Alexis de Sakhnoffsky
Quote from: Otto Puzzell on October 10, 2010, 02:38:59 AM
This resembles some other vehicles designed by Count Alexis de Sakhnoffsky
:lurk:
If you have it, Allemano, please proceed. I've spent a lot of time on this one, and have come up empty-handed.
Quote from: Otto Puzzell on October 10, 2010, 03:13:21 AM
If you have it, Allemano, please proceed. I've spent a lot of time on this one, and have come up empty-handed.
No it's about the name you've mentioned. Could be relevant on some other topic...
I am going to do something unusual: lock it for THREE puzzlers (Otto Puzzell,pnegyesi and Allemano) for the next 72 hours.
Why? Because they're the only ones who made a guess (Otto first) that seem quite close to the truth.
So one point to the first to find the same additional informations I've found, leading us possibly to this puzzle solution - and explains why.
The second point to the first to find definite evidsence, if it exists, of what this vehicle is.
Quote from: Ray B. on October 10, 2010, 04:06:59 AMI am going to do something unusual: lock it for THREE puzzlers (Otto Puzzell,pnegyesi and Allemano) for the next 72 hours.
Why? Because they're the only ones who made a guess (Otto first) that seem quite close to the truth.
I did not, I believe... (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g106/pan1968/Gifs/h.gif)
All right. Locked for OP and pnegyesi.
Nearly endless searching has resulted in no discoveries by me. I relinquish my lock. It's all up to pnegyesi, now.
His lock is up too by now, so it's a free for all.
If a puzzler reads me well, checks all the posts in this topic, goes to the right well-known place and looks over his shoulder, he should find the clue that I mentioned without an endless search, in fact quite easily.
Did the ladies work at a Brewery, or other Milwaukee-area employer?
Quote from: Ray B. on September 17, 2010, 03:51:28 PM
... I've recently stumbled on some informations that may confirm the Milwaukee clue and lead us towards the answer. It's easily avalaible...
This is the clue I've been lecturing about in all my last posts, and it has nothing to do with where the ladies were employed. Bu with another vehicle that seems to have lots in common with this one.
I found this pic in a magazine, there aren't much details: according to the fashions the ladies are wearing, it should be a late thirties motorhome\minibus. The area is reported to be Milwaukee and there are some hints of a A.O. Smith \ Brooks Stevens connection.
From these details I guess it's the same magazine where I found it.
Since no one is finding the clue I'm talking about... let me speak a little louder: I believe that it is connected with this other vehicle.
Hunt?
Nope. Find where the above image comes from and you'll have the probable answer.
D'oh! Recently I've seen this very pic that Ray has posted, but don't know where anymore.. >:(
Okay. found it again.. According to that mysterious source Ray's last pic is an early attempt for a motorhome of Brook Stevens.
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g106/pan1968/07fea3fa.jpg)
My source is not "mysterious", I've kept saying so, and again in my last post. Is it only me who is seing the similarities between this long motorhome and the smaller vehicle of my puzzle? The bumpers, espescially the rear bumper, the shap and arrangement of windows and windshield. I could say the headlights setup but it's not easy to see in the profile photo of the bigger one. There are some elements not unlike Hunt' cars, yes. But his Turtle carries a decorative molding placed lower. When both these vehicles carry one just below and over the side glass.
The big one is attributed to Stevens by SIA. Stevens is noted by SIA as the possible author of the small one.
While Otto and Paul Jaray made earlier correct but unsure guesses, I think its right to give that point to Allemano who found the only (in my opinion) conclusive evidence sofar.
As it was a two points puzzle the second point is still at stake for whomever achieves to lift the veil.
I thought about that resemblance at that time the puzzle was locked for Otto and Pal, but forgot about it till it was unlocked again.
I'm not complaining, but is there any evidence that the small vehicle has been made by Brooks as well? Or is it rather uncertain?
No other evidence than what I wrote and was worth a point to you.
Certainty will be worth another when it comes.
Here is another welk-known vehicle by Brooks Stevens, the Western Printing Sales van. You can see several details it is sharing with the puzzle car: the bumpers again, the panoramic windshield separated in four elements of flat glass, the molding around the side windows, the little round lights above the windshield and what seems to be a radio antenna all along the roof.
I've pasted the 3 pictures together so that you can compare them.
What do we think about this one? Looks very similar to me. Based on a 1939-ish Dodge, but the coachbuilder is not 100% - looks like the same firm though.
Quote from: barrett on November 11, 2010, 12:47:04 PM
What do we think about this one? Looks very similar to me. Based on a 1939-ish Dodge, but the coachbuilder is not 100% - looks like the same firm though.
Sure, several styling clues like the third of mines. There seems to be a missing word after "100%" in your reply. What did you mean?
I mean that the builder of that van is thought to be a certain company, but it's not known 100% who actually built it or when. To me it looks like the work of the same stylist as your puzzle but, as I can't provide any proof for either vehicle, it's a moot point.
I thought maybe that image might be helpful for another puzzler....
by the way, the company presumed responsible is DeKalb...
Which gives us another link with Brooks Stevens (not saying that any of these is the van mentioned below, though.)
..Dodge entered this segment in 1938 with urban delivery vans blending a standard Dodge truck chassis with a specialized tall body constructed by an external supplier. Examples include the Montpelier Urban Delivery Vans of 1938-39 and postwar vans with bodies designed by noted Milwaukee industrial designer Brooks Stevens and built by the De Kalb Wagon Works of De Kalb, Illinois...
I found this yesterday : "This photo is a house car that was designed by Brooks Stevens."
I don't believe it's the same car,but it looks like...
The bent A-pillar is different, though.
Yes, but it is much like the one of the Dodge van found by barrett. The side decor also. The picture is too small to see if it's got the four-pieces windshierld of some of the others.
All in all, it seems to me a rather safe assumption to suppose that those five vehicles have probably been designed by Stevens.
not the same but...
I think that what you found may be the same car that Joao posted is his reply #41.
I've found this, very similar and by Brooks Stevens
Yes, I had found it too, and didn't post it , waiting for one of you to stumble upon it. I am sure that the bottom picture in you document is the vehicle which can be seen in Joao's reply #41, and Paul Jaray's reply #44.
So now we're sure that this one is by Brooks Stevens. And most probably he also did the puzzle car, but we have no positive proof of that.
Is it called "The Clipper", as can be seen here (a 1952 photo)?
Amazing pic!
Say - that's pretty cool!
It looks more like Oggy's pic than the puzzle vehicle, at least to my old eyes. ;)
You´re right, but I´m still quite sure it is a Brook Stevens design.
The puzzle vehicle might have been a kind of predecessor?
I'm sure that's correct. I wonder if we'll ever get the proof on this one?
Quote from: Otto Puzzell on October 27, 2011, 03:55:13 AM
I'm sure that's correct. I wonder if we'll ever get the proof on this one?
Yes we do!
Look what I have found:
Great Allemano!!! :)
So it is a Brook Stevens (Western) Clipper, as I´ve said before?
Let´s close this one finally and award the point to Allemano...
Interesting. Many sites have the Western van as being built on an International Clipper chassis. It had round windows, and a stubbier wheelbase. It can be seen elsewhere in the AutoPuzzles site, and even on the second page of this thread (miss-titled "Westprint").
Quote from: Otto Puzzell on November 28, 2011, 04:14:04 AM
Interesting. Many sites have the Western van as being built on an International Clipper chassis. It had round windows, and a stubbier wheelbase. It can be seen elsewhere in the AutoPuzzles site, and even on the second page of this thread (miss-titled "Westprint").
I corrected this for the name by which it is known: Western Printing van. Apparently I had pasted the shortened file name that I had used while saving it on my HD.
:applause: for Allemano, and two points (unless he wants to share one to Grob). I'd call this teaching SIA and Hemmings a lesson, but triumph should be modest.
Here is the interior of another of his Western Publishing Co. vans for comparison.
Grob deserves a point! He first mentioned the name 'Clipper'.
About my source: I surprisingly found it in the September 1995 edition of CarStyling bimonthly (#108).
So, if the Japanese know their US-streamline-bus-stuff better than the US of A experts. — I don't know!
Who first suggested 'Stevens'? ;D
You did for sure. ;) But I had opened the doors wide for you.
Quote from: Ray B. on September 21, 2009, 06:29:22 PM
As I said above, it's for you to find and I know nothing of this vehicle. Except (this is the clue I was speaking of) that the picture was probably taken in the Milwaukee area.
I substracted a point to Allemano and added it to Grob.
Otto, my heart bleeds for you, but you know that suggestions are not enough.
Thank you.
Autopuzzles sometimes is like archeology - it was pure incidence that I´ve found the clipper in the bottom left edge of a bigger picture while digging through my HD...
It's always nice to see these long-running puzzles finally laid to rest, good work guys!
Paul Jaray warned me that the car was featured in a recent article about "the incomplete history of Brooks Stevens motorhomes".
As it is incomplete, precisely, we don't learn much bout the particulars of this particular car, but there are very valuable details on the subject.
And four more pictures of this one, where we see the these ladies nicely chatting inside the car, on the front seat, then rejoined by a gentleman on the rear seats.
And that's all.
Here they are.
:thumbsup: