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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2011 => Topic started by: Ray B. on August 20, 2009, 04:29:45 AM

Title: Whaddyacallit #402 - Brooks Stevens' Western Clipper
Post by: Ray B. on August 20, 2009, 04:29:45 AM


Ever seen this ?

If you did, please respond below and let us know the make and model of the car posted here.
I have no identification for this car myself, just some clues. So if you find it this will earn you two points.

If you haven't registered yet, you need to do so in order to reply with your answer. You can do so by clicking here (http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?action=register).
Also, please be sure to check out our other puzzles, and, please post a puzzle of your own if you'd like - the more, the merrier.

Thanks![/center]
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on August 26, 2009, 08:50:25 AM
Experts?
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: faksta on August 26, 2009, 10:57:06 AM
Could it be French? It doesn't look a typical American streamliner.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on August 26, 2009, 11:01:53 AM
It's not French.
I'll say it right away so you won't have to play Phileas Fogg: it's most probably American.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on September 07, 2009, 05:21:11 PM
Pros?
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 21, 2009, 05:20:19 PM
Coachbulit, for a well-known builder of trucks?
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on September 21, 2009, 06:29:22 PM
As I said above, it's for you to find and I know nothing of this vehicle. Except (this is the clue I was speaking of) that the picture was probably taken in the Milwaukee area.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Otto Puzzell on September 22, 2009, 05:27:52 AM
I'll have to go with my standard guess of (Wisconsin's favorite son) Brooks Stevens. I'll follow that hunch and go digging.

Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on September 22, 2009, 04:21:32 PM
Sure, I'd do the same. Good luck.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on November 19, 2009, 11:57:43 AM
What about putting this one to be nursed in the Pros secret garden?
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on September 17, 2010, 03:51:28 PM
Guys, I've recently stumbled on some informations that may confirm the Milwaukee clue and lead us towards the answer. It's easily avalaible.
Anyone wants to try?
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Otto Puzzell on October 09, 2010, 07:12:10 AM
Is the chassis an International Harvester?
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on October 09, 2010, 09:17:47 AM
Maybe, but I don't know about this. The clue that I found is rather about its conception and outer shell.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: pnegyesi on October 09, 2010, 01:43:45 PM
conception, so the info is about the purpose of this minivan?
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on October 09, 2010, 05:55:36 PM
Conception may not be the right word. Design would be more correct.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: pnegyesi on October 09, 2010, 11:35:02 PM
Did you manage to get confirmation that this one was designed by Brooks Stevens after all?
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Otto Puzzell on October 10, 2010, 02:38:59 AM
This resembles some other vehicles designed by Count Alexis de Sakhnoffsky
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Allemano on October 10, 2010, 02:54:27 AM
Quote from: Otto Puzzell on October 10, 2010, 02:38:59 AM
This resembles some other vehicles designed by Count Alexis de Sakhnoffsky
:lurk:
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Otto Puzzell on October 10, 2010, 03:13:21 AM
If you have it, Allemano, please proceed. I've spent a lot of time on this one, and have come up empty-handed.

Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Allemano on October 10, 2010, 03:16:53 AM
Quote from: Otto Puzzell on October 10, 2010, 03:13:21 AM
If you have it, Allemano, please proceed. I've spent a lot of time on this one, and have come up empty-handed.
No it's about the name you've mentioned. Could be relevant on some other topic...
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on October 10, 2010, 04:06:59 AM
I am going to do something unusual: lock it for THREE puzzlers (Otto Puzzell,pnegyesi and Allemano) for the next 72 hours.
Why? Because they're the only ones who made a guess (Otto first) that seem quite close to the truth.
So one point to the first to find the same additional informations I've found, leading us possibly to this puzzle solution - and explains why.
The second point to the first to find definite evidsence, if it exists, of what this vehicle is.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Allemano on October 14, 2010, 07:35:11 AM
Quote from: Ray B. on October 10, 2010, 04:06:59 AMI am going to do something unusual: lock it for THREE puzzlers (Otto Puzzell,pnegyesi and Allemano) for the next 72 hours.
Why? Because they're the only ones who made a guess (Otto first) that seem quite close to the truth.
I did not, I believe... (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g106/pan1968/Gifs/h.gif)
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on October 14, 2010, 08:34:37 AM
All right. Locked for OP and pnegyesi.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Otto Puzzell on October 19, 2010, 05:53:15 AM
Nearly endless searching has resulted in no discoveries by me. I relinquish my lock. It's all up to pnegyesi, now. 
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on October 19, 2010, 06:02:17 AM
His lock is up too by now, so it's a free for all.

If a puzzler reads me well, checks all the posts in this topic, goes to the right well-known place and looks over his shoulder, he should find the clue that I mentioned without an endless search, in fact quite easily.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Otto Puzzell on October 21, 2010, 11:53:57 AM
Did the ladies work at a Brewery, or other Milwaukee-area employer?
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on October 21, 2010, 04:26:50 PM
Quote from: Ray B. on September 17, 2010, 03:51:28 PM
... I've recently stumbled on some informations that may confirm the Milwaukee clue and lead us towards the answer. It's easily avalaible...

This is the clue I've been lecturing about in all my last posts, and it has nothing to do with where the ladies were employed. Bu with another vehicle that seems to have lots in common with this one.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 25, 2010, 09:24:48 AM
I found this pic in a magazine, there aren't much details: according to the fashions the ladies are wearing, it should be a late thirties motorhome\minibus. The area is reported to be Milwaukee and there are some hints of a A.O. Smith \ Brooks Stevens connection.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on October 25, 2010, 10:31:17 AM
From these details I guess it's the same magazine where I found it.
Since no one is finding the clue I'm talking about... let me speak a little louder: I believe that it is connected with this other vehicle.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 25, 2010, 10:42:21 AM
Hunt?
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on October 25, 2010, 11:04:52 AM
Nope. Find where the above image comes from and you'll have the probable answer.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Allemano on October 25, 2010, 11:17:48 AM
D'oh! Recently I've seen this very pic that Ray has posted, but don't know where anymore..  >:(
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Allemano on October 25, 2010, 11:31:05 AM
Okay. found it again.. According to that mysterious source Ray's last pic is an early attempt for a motorhome of Brook Stevens.

(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g106/pan1968/07fea3fa.jpg)
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on October 25, 2010, 12:19:47 PM
My source is not "mysterious", I've kept saying so, and again in my last post. Is it only me who is seing the similarities between this long motorhome and the smaller vehicle of my puzzle? The bumpers, espescially the rear bumper, the shap and arrangement of windows and windshield. I could say the headlights setup but it's not easy to see in the profile photo of the bigger one. There are some elements not unlike Hunt' cars, yes. But his Turtle carries a decorative molding placed lower. When both these vehicles carry one just below and over the side glass.

The big one is attributed to Stevens by SIA. Stevens is noted by SIA as the possible author of the small one.

While Otto and Paul Jaray made earlier correct but unsure guesses, I think its right to give that point to Allemano who found the only (in my opinion) conclusive evidence sofar.
As it was a two points puzzle the second point is still at stake for whomever achieves to lift the veil.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Allemano on October 25, 2010, 12:29:55 PM
I thought about that resemblance at that time the puzzle was locked for Otto and Pal, but forgot about it till it was unlocked again.
I'm not complaining, but is there any evidence that the small vehicle has been made by Brooks as well? Or is it rather uncertain?
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on October 25, 2010, 12:53:52 PM
No other evidence than what I wrote and was worth a point to you.
Certainty will be worth another when it comes.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on October 26, 2010, 08:38:52 AM
Here is another welk-known vehicle by Brooks Stevens, the Western Printing Sales van. You can see several details it is sharing with the puzzle car: the bumpers again, the panoramic windshield separated in four elements of flat glass, the molding around the side windows, the little round lights above the windshield and what seems to be a radio antenna all along the roof.
I've pasted the 3 pictures together so that you can compare them.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: barrett on November 11, 2010, 12:47:04 PM
What do we think about this one? Looks very similar to me. Based on a 1939-ish Dodge, but the coachbuilder is not 100% - looks like the same firm though.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on November 11, 2010, 04:04:15 PM
Quote from: barrett on November 11, 2010, 12:47:04 PM
What do we think about this one? Looks very similar to me. Based on a 1939-ish Dodge, but the coachbuilder is not 100% - looks like the same firm though.

Sure, several styling clues like the third of mines. There seems to be a missing word after "100%" in your reply. What did you mean?
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: barrett on November 11, 2010, 04:48:11 PM
I mean that the builder of that van is thought to be a certain company, but it's not known 100% who actually built it or when. To me it looks like the work of the same stylist as your puzzle but, as I can't provide any proof for either vehicle, it's a moot point.
I thought maybe that image might be helpful for another puzzler....

by the way, the company presumed responsible is DeKalb...
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on November 14, 2010, 06:31:41 AM
Which gives us another link with Brooks Stevens (not saying that any of these is the van mentioned below, though.)

..Dodge entered this segment in 1938 with urban delivery vans blending a standard Dodge truck chassis with a specialized tall body constructed by an external supplier. Examples include the Montpelier Urban Delivery Vans of 1938-39 and postwar vans with bodies designed by noted Milwaukee industrial designer Brooks Stevens and built by the De Kalb Wagon Works of De Kalb, Illinois...
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: João on December 02, 2010, 10:56:07 AM
I found this yesterday : "This photo is a house car that was designed by Brooks Stevens."
I don't believe it's the same car,but it looks like...
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Allemano on December 02, 2010, 11:07:26 AM
The bent A-pillar is different, though.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on December 02, 2010, 11:55:26 AM
Yes, but it is much like the one of the Dodge van found by barrett. The side decor also. The picture is too small to see if it's got the four-pieces windshierld of some of the others.
All in all, it seems to me a rather safe assumption to suppose that those five vehicles have probably been designed by Stevens.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 07, 2011, 01:20:55 PM
not the same but...
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on January 07, 2011, 03:58:56 PM
I think that what you found may be the same car that Joao posted is his reply #41.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Oguerrerob on October 13, 2011, 02:10:10 AM
I've found this, very similar and by Brooks Stevens
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on October 13, 2011, 04:03:33 AM
Yes, I had found it too, and didn't post it , waiting for one of you to stumble upon it. I am sure that the bottom picture in you document is the vehicle which can be seen in Joao's reply #41, and Paul Jaray's reply #44.

So now we're sure that this one is by Brooks Stevens. And most probably he also did the puzzle car, but we have no positive proof of that.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: grobmotorix on October 26, 2011, 02:25:34 PM
Is it called "The Clipper", as can be seen here (a 1952 photo)?
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Allemano on October 26, 2011, 02:58:23 PM
Amazing pic!
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Otto Puzzell on October 26, 2011, 03:33:56 PM
Say - that's pretty cool!

It looks more like Oggy's pic than the puzzle vehicle, at least to my old eyes.  ;)
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: grobmotorix on October 26, 2011, 03:51:46 PM
You´re right, but I´m still quite sure it is a Brook Stevens design.
The puzzle vehicle might have been a kind of predecessor?
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Otto Puzzell on October 27, 2011, 03:55:13 AM
I'm sure that's correct. I wonder if we'll ever get the proof on this one?
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Allemano on November 27, 2011, 01:39:46 PM
Quote from: Otto Puzzell on October 27, 2011, 03:55:13 AM
I'm sure that's correct. I wonder if we'll ever get the proof on this one?
Yes we do!

Look what I have found:
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: João on November 27, 2011, 02:41:28 PM
Great Allemano!!!  :)
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: grobmotorix on November 28, 2011, 01:49:05 AM
So it is a Brook Stevens (Western) Clipper, as I´ve said before?
Let´s close this one finally and award the point to Allemano...
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Otto Puzzell on November 28, 2011, 04:14:04 AM
Interesting. Many sites have the Western van as being built on an International Clipper chassis. It had round windows, and a stubbier wheelbase. It can be seen elsewhere in the AutoPuzzles site, and even on the second page of this thread (miss-titled "Westprint").  
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on November 28, 2011, 10:52:13 AM
Quote from: Otto Puzzell on November 28, 2011, 04:14:04 AM
Interesting. Many sites have the Western van as being built on an International Clipper chassis. It had round windows, and a stubbier wheelbase. It can be seen elsewhere in the AutoPuzzles site, and even on the second page of this thread (miss-titled "Westprint").  

I corrected this for the name by which it is known: Western Printing van. Apparently I had pasted the shortened file name that I had used while saving it on my HD.

:applause: for Allemano, and two points (unless he wants to share one to Grob). I'd call this teaching SIA and Hemmings a lesson, but triumph should be modest.

Here is the interior of another of his Western Publishing Co. vans for comparison.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Allemano on November 28, 2011, 11:13:21 AM
Grob deserves a point! He first mentioned the name 'Clipper'.

About my source: I surprisingly found it in the September 1995 edition of CarStyling bimonthly (#108).
So, if the Japanese know their US-streamline-bus-stuff better than the US of A experts. — I don't know!
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402 - Brooks Stevens' Western Clipper
Post by: Otto Puzzell on November 28, 2011, 11:15:35 AM
Who first suggested 'Stevens'?  ;D
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402
Post by: Ray B. on November 28, 2011, 05:56:28 PM
You did for sure.  ;) But I had opened the doors wide for you.
Quote from: Ray B. on September 21, 2009, 06:29:22 PM
As I said above, it's for you to find and I know nothing of this vehicle. Except (this is the clue I was speaking of) that the picture was probably taken in the Milwaukee area.

I substracted a point to Allemano and added it to Grob.
Otto, my heart bleeds for you, but you know that suggestions are not enough.


Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402 - Brooks Stevens' Western Clipper
Post by: grobmotorix on November 29, 2011, 01:26:15 AM
Thank you.
Autopuzzles sometimes is like archeology - it was pure incidence that I´ve found the clipper in the bottom left edge of a bigger picture while digging through my HD...
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402 - Brooks Stevens' Western Clipper
Post by: barrett on November 29, 2011, 11:24:11 AM
It's always nice to see these long-running puzzles finally laid to rest, good work guys!
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402 - Brooks Stevens' Western Clipper
Post by: Ray B. on September 22, 2014, 09:13:07 AM
Paul Jaray warned me that the car was featured in a recent article about "the incomplete history of Brooks Stevens motorhomes".
As it is incomplete, precisely, we don't learn much bout the particulars of this particular car, but there are very valuable details on the subject.
And four more pictures of this one, where we see the these ladies nicely chatting inside the car, on the front seat, then rejoined by a gentleman on the rear seats.
And that's all.
Here they are.
Title: Re: Whaddyacallit #402 - Brooks Stevens' Western Clipper
Post by: grobmotorix on September 22, 2014, 01:55:57 PM
 :thumbsup: