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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2012 => Topic started by: woodinsight on November 24, 2012, 07:54:01 AM

Title: Solved - MJW #1044 - Guy Arab III Half-Deck Crellin-Duplex prototype 1949
Post by: woodinsight on November 24, 2012, 07:54:01 AM
Another PSV (Passenger Service Vehicle) for the bus enthusiasts.
Identify the make, model, type of bus and the designer/founder of this type.
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on November 24, 2012, 10:36:56 AM
I should point out that I've disguised the radiator badge as that would have given the game away too easily.
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: targhediferro on November 28, 2012, 02:39:03 AM
AEC?
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: nicanary on November 28, 2012, 11:30:55 AM
Maudesley?
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: Carnut on December 03, 2012, 11:07:21 AM
Bump....
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 03, 2012, 11:25:30 AM
Apologies for the delay in answering - neither AEC or Maudslay
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 04, 2012, 03:11:43 AM
Up to the next level
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: D-type on December 04, 2012, 11:26:33 AM
Bristol?
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 04, 2012, 12:14:24 PM
Quote from: D-type on December 04, 2012, 11:26:33 AM
Bristol?
Not a Bristol but still a well-known make in its day
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: nicanary on December 04, 2012, 12:16:16 PM
Leyland?
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 04, 2012, 12:17:47 PM
Quote from: nicanary on December 04, 2012, 12:16:16 PM
Leyland?
Not a Leyland and don't forget I've blurred the radiator badge.....
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: targhediferro on December 04, 2012, 05:45:14 PM
Bedford?
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 04, 2012, 08:57:12 PM
Quote from: targhediferro on December 04, 2012, 05:45:14 PM
Bedford?
Not Bedford.....
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: nicanary on December 05, 2012, 07:11:17 AM
Foden?
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: frederick59 on December 05, 2012, 09:19:11 AM
Daimler?
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 05, 2012, 09:20:51 AM
Not Foden or Daimler
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: nicanary on December 05, 2012, 09:37:16 AM
Should there be a big letter T on the radiator, for Thorneycroft?
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 05, 2012, 01:32:38 PM
Quote from: nicanary on December 05, 2012, 09:37:16 AM
Should there be a big letter T on the radiator, for Thorneycroft?
No but the full name of the make was in the badge at the top of the radiator.....
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: targhediferro on December 05, 2012, 03:01:44 PM
Commer?
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 05, 2012, 03:13:30 PM
Quote from: targhediferro on December 05, 2012, 03:01:44 PM
Commer?
Not Commer.....keep going you're bound to come across this make soon
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: targhediferro on December 05, 2012, 04:45:07 PM
Albion
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: max on December 05, 2012, 06:17:56 PM
Based on a Morris-Commercial Dictator?
And is it a Colonel Millard designed sleeper coach?
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 06, 2012, 01:44:46 AM
Quote from: targhediferro on December 05, 2012, 04:45:07 PM
Albion
Not an Albion...
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 06, 2012, 01:47:55 AM
Quote from: max on December 05, 2012, 06:17:56 PM
Based on a Morris-Commercial Dictator?
And is it a Colonel Millard designed sleeper coach?
Not a Morris-Commercial.
It's a short name.
It is a coach but not designed for sleeping in.
It's a prototype of quite a few that were built on different chassis.....
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: frederick59 on December 06, 2012, 04:58:56 AM
a short name=GUY?
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 06, 2012, 05:39:18 AM
Quote from: frederick59 on December 06, 2012, 04:58:56 AM
a short name=GUY?
That's it!
Not enough to lock it yet unless you can provide more information......
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: targhediferro on December 06, 2012, 10:07:31 AM
Guy Arab mkIII, 1949?...I have no idea of the coachbuilder
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: targhediferro on December 06, 2012, 10:14:22 AM
perhaps Strachan body?
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 06, 2012, 12:55:40 PM
Quote from: targhediferro on December 06, 2012, 10:07:31 AM
Guy Arab mkIII, 1949?...I have no idea of the coachbuilder
Yes it's a Guy Arab III c.1949
Coachbuilder is not Strachan though.
I'll give the point for the name of the designer of this type of bus rather than the coachbuilder of this particular vehicle as it was the only one they constructed I believe.
LOCKED for you until your next answer only
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: targhediferro on December 07, 2012, 10:33:01 AM
maybe Doug Pargeter who worked for Northern Coachbuilders and for Picktree?
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 07, 2012, 12:18:46 PM
Quote from: targhediferro on December 07, 2012, 10:33:01 AM
maybe Doug Pargeter who worked for Northern Coachbuilders and for Picktree?
Not by him......
The name I'm looking for is not the name of a person (forename & surname) but a hyphenated name of the patented design (the first word may be a surname)
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 07, 2012, 12:52:13 PM
I've just received confirmation that the first name is the surname of the person who patented the design.
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: targhediferro on December 07, 2012, 02:47:31 PM
hard challenge...
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 07, 2012, 02:52:26 PM
Quote from: targhediferro on December 07, 2012, 02:47:31 PM
hard challenge...
Perhaps but if you know your bus history back in the 1940s/1950s it shouldn't be too difficult;
I think you have to know what this type of bus was called to take it further.
OPEN for others now.
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 08, 2012, 08:01:32 AM
Moving it up to the Pros now.....
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: Carnut on December 08, 2012, 08:03:31 AM
It's the original Crellin-Duplex prototype of 1949, designed by George Crellin and based on a Guy Arab Mk III chassis.
I'll add a bit more shortly!
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: Carnut on December 08, 2012, 08:11:39 AM
This particular half-deck coach was built (I believe) in Preston, where George Crellin was based, and it was originally operated by a company associated with the businessman who funded Crellin's exploits.  It was registered DCK 111, a Preston issue from October 1949, and ended its days as a school bus with Butters of Childs Ercall, Shropshire.

Around 20 or so coaches to this or similar design were built, based on Guy, Foden, AEC and perhaps other chassis, bodied by various different coachbuilders in various parts of the country.  Mann Egerton were one of those builders, and below are a couple of advertisements for their bus.

They were, however, not popular with passengers.  In order to keep the height as low as possible, the footwells for the upper deck encroached into the headroom of the lower deck, making passengers feel claustrophobic.  Hence only the 20 or so were built and did not remain in service for very long.

I'm happy to say there is one survivor, in a preservation group!

Here are more photos:
Title: Re: MJW #1044
Post by: woodinsight on December 08, 2012, 08:20:22 AM
That's it Carnut and for your excellent reply with all those extra photos I'm going to award you 2 points.
Title: Re: Solved - MJW #1044 - Guy Arab III Half-Deck prototype by Crellin-Duplex 1949
Post by: Carnut on December 08, 2012, 08:24:00 AM
You're too generous!
Many thanks.
A very interesting bus and a great find for a puzzle; well done woodinsight!
Title: Re: Solved - MJW #1044 - Guy Arab III Half-Deck prototype by Crellin-Duplex 1949
Post by: Carnut on December 08, 2012, 07:28:09 PM
Regarding the heading - it's not strictly true to say it's "by Crellin-Duplex" because that was the name under which George Crellin's design was patented.  The bodies were then made under licence.

The original Guy prototype was constructed by Farghers of Preston, but the next 11 or 12 (depending on where you get the information from!) were made by Lincolnshire Trailer Co of Scunthorpe (incl the one pictured above operated by KLM Royal Dutch Airlines).  Note in the picture used for the original puzzle photo the bus actually wore a Wolverhampton trade plate (039 UK), but I'm not sure why when it was built and eventually registered in Preston.  In the other pictures of a Guy that I posted it's wearing a Lincolnshire trade plate, which would suggest that it's perhaps the first one produced by Lincolnshire Trailer and seems to be an exact copy of the prototype.

The final 8 were made by Mann Egerton, including the one in the very small picture below which is the only survivor.  It was delivered in 1952 to Homeland Tours, who only kept it for 4 years, and eventually ended up in the hands of Mr R.A. Jenkinson, who has restored it, only completing it this year, and intends to enter it in bus rallies.
Title: Re: Solved - MJW #1044 - Guy Arab III Half-Deck Crellin-Duplex prototype 1949
Post by: woodinsight on December 09, 2012, 05:01:24 AM
Heading altered as suggested.....