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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2012 => Topic started by: pnegyesi on August 31, 2011, 12:16:07 PM

Title: Solved: PN #221 -- Cadillac V-63, 1924 at the 1925 Hungarian Touring Race
Post by: pnegyesi on August 31, 2011, 12:16:07 PM
Please identify the car with starting number 5. The picture was most probably taken in 1925 (my previous guess of 1924 was plainly wrong).
A brand name and an approximate model year are sufficient for a point.
Title: Re: PN #221 - I don't know this one
Post by: João on August 31, 2011, 12:50:09 PM
Maybe a Fiat 521 (1928-31) ?
Title: Re: PN #221 - I don't know this one
Post by: pnegyesi on August 31, 2011, 12:55:52 PM
The picture was definitely taken before 1926. So it can't be a Fiat 521.
Title: Re: PN #221 - I don't know this one
Post by: Wendax on August 31, 2011, 01:49:46 PM
Those wheels remind me of American cars. Could it be a 1924 Moon 6-50?
Title: Re: PN #221 - I don't know this one
Post by: pnegyesi on August 31, 2011, 02:14:51 PM
Though it looks a bit similar, but I don't think it is a Moon - smaller-scaler American brands arrived to Hungary from 1926-1927
Title: Re: PN #221 - I don't know this one
Post by: Wendax on August 31, 2011, 03:18:17 PM
So you don't think it is American?
Title: Re: PN #221 - I don't know this one
Post by: pnegyesi on August 31, 2011, 03:54:18 PM
I think it is not from USA
Title: Re: PN #221 - I don't know this one
Post by: Allemano on August 31, 2011, 04:16:42 PM
The name of the shop suggests it's indeed not USAmerican... Is it from Hungaria?
Title: Re: PN #221 - I don't know this one
Post by: pnegyesi on August 31, 2011, 10:49:08 PM
The picture was taken in Budapest, in front of a dealership which sold mainly French cars. It may have been French but I am not entirely sure.
It is definitely not a Hungarian-made car
Title: Re: PN #221 - I don't know this one
Post by: pnegyesi on January 03, 2012, 01:45:40 AM
I was wrong, it seems this one IS from the US of A. And probably a tad earlier than 1924
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: Manuel on March 30, 2012, 05:00:49 AM

Packard with non original lights.
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: Otto Puzzell on March 30, 2012, 05:31:04 AM
I agree - the fenders, hood and front bumper suggest a Packard 236, appx ca. 1925
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: pnegyesi on March 30, 2012, 08:56:20 AM
Well, can you show me proof, because I am convinced it is not a Packard
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: Tom_I on March 30, 2012, 10:15:31 AM
I don't think the wheels are right for a Packard. The five bolt wheel fixing is not typical (though not impossible), and Packard Hubs would have had a red hexagon on the end (photo below), which is not there on the puzzle car.

Having had a look around, I think the wheels fit best with a 1924 or 25 Hupmobile. It's not easy to find good photos, but the three shown below all seem to fit quite well with the puzzle car (apart from the headlamps).


Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: pnegyesi on March 30, 2012, 02:14:40 PM
No, I don't think it is Hupmobile either
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: Manuel on March 30, 2012, 10:44:36 PM

I am new here but I am on other car ID sites. I prefer this to crossword puzzles :-)
The car in front is a big car; of the Packard, Pierce, full size Studee etc etc etc  size.
The one at the back may be a Hupp but I don't think Hupp made them this big. I could be wrong. If u can't see the front of a car it could be anything!!
On other sites U can enlarge parts of the car. Is this done here? I don't know how but if so can someone enlarge a hubcap plse--it may help?
Cheers,
Manuel in Oz
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: pnegyesi on March 30, 2012, 11:29:04 PM
Puzzle car is car with starting No5, here's the original scan
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: Otto Puzzell on April 01, 2012, 05:13:33 AM
Quote from: Tom_I on March 30, 2012, 10:15:31 AM
I don't think the wheels are right for a Packard. The five bolt wheel fixing is not typical (though not impossible), and Packard Hubs would have had a red hexagon on the end (photo below), which is not there on the puzzle car.


Packard sold cars with 5-bolt wheels in 1923-24. And a Packard pressed into rough-road use could be retrofitted with grease caps that protruded less.

Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: Tom_I on April 01, 2012, 06:35:29 AM
That certainly ticks a lot of boxes - this body style was clearly used on a variety of chassis.

But the door handles are different, and the puzzle car has a swage line along the panel covering the chassis side member, scuttle mounted sidelamps, and no opening vent in front of the windscreen, details which fit with a Hupmobile Eight of about 1925.

Also the Packard has 28 louvres on the side of the bonnet, while the puzzle car and Hupmobile Eight only have 27...

I know, I should get out more.  :-[
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: pnegyesi on April 01, 2012, 06:55:45 AM
I still don't think it is a Hupmobile
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: Otto Puzzell on April 01, 2012, 07:52:10 AM
Buick cars also had 27 louvers per side, at least in 1924. I can't find one with disc wheels.
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: pnegyesi on April 01, 2012, 08:04:44 AM
It is not a Buick, but getting closer (IMHO)
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: Otto Puzzell on April 01, 2012, 08:33:29 AM
Hmmm...

Pontiac/Oakland cars were sold in the 1920's with disc wheels.

More digging to do!
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: Otto Puzzell on April 18, 2012, 03:49:32 AM
Home page featured:

http://www.autopuzzles.com/
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: Otto Puzzell on May 11, 2012, 06:18:36 AM
No bites on the GM brands...

How about an Ajax Six, from the junior brand to Nash?
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: pnegyesi on May 11, 2012, 07:16:26 AM
Are you sure it is not a GM-brand?
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: Otto Puzzell on May 11, 2012, 08:09:08 AM
I didn't get a response to Pontiac / Oakland, so I assumed I was off-base
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: pnegyesi on May 11, 2012, 08:15:28 AM
It is not a Pontiac/Oakland
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: Otto Puzzell on May 11, 2012, 08:40:51 AM
Thanks!

Since Buick was headed in the right direction, let's try Marquette
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: pnegyesi on May 11, 2012, 09:58:30 AM
No, something bigger
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: Otto Puzzell on May 11, 2012, 10:20:42 AM
One up from Buick was LaSalle...
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: Otto Puzzell on May 11, 2012, 10:26:13 AM
Strike that - they weren't around pre- 1927.

How about a 1924 Cadillac V-63? They could be had with disc wheels, though I cannot find a picture of one with that option
Title: Re: PN #221
Post by: pnegyesi on May 11, 2012, 12:23:56 PM
And that is my opinion too. Inititally I was confused because I thought the picture was taken in 1924. But now I firmly believe this was taken in 1925 at the Hungarian Touring Race - a journey through Hungary. Antal Palugyai started with starting number No5, a Cadillac.

So a very well earned point for Otto.
Title: Re: Solved: PN #221 -- Cadillac V-63, 1924 at the 1925 Hungarian Touring Race
Post by: RayTheRat on May 11, 2012, 08:09:03 PM
I'm confused...as usual.  And I sure don't want to cause trouble for Otto.  But did the question refer to the car with the number "5" on the cowl or the one behind it?  If it's the car in front, while there are many similarities to a 1924 Cadillac, but I can't find one with the sharp edge to the hood as the top of it meets the louvered sides.  I've attached a photo of a 1924 Caddy V-63 touring car (phaeton) and it looks more like the car in the rear.  It has artillery wheels, but as Otto pointed out, I believe disc wheels were available at that time.  The 24 Caddy was a pretty advanced car in its time, with a 90-degree V8 and 4-wheel brakes (even if they WERE mechanical) and would have been a very good choice for a touring race.  There are many photos of this year/model of Cadillac on a well-known web site that deals with motion pictures.

One possible answer is bespoke coachwork, but I'm not familiar with many that changed the shape of the grill shell and, as a result, the lines of the hood.  I hope I'm mistaken as well as confused and someone can enlighten me.

Thanks,

RtR
Title: Re: Solved: PN #221 -- Cadillac V-63, 1924 at the 1925 Hungarian Touring Race
Post by: pnegyesi on May 12, 2012, 02:53:17 AM
The puzzle car was indeed car Number 5 and I am just as confused as you are. I hope it is a Cadillac as it has an American flag on its nose, which would correspond to my theory of a Cadillac which raced with starting number No5 at the 1925 Hungarian Touring Race.
I don't have many entry lists from that period, but I know that the picture was taken between 1924-1926 and I have not seen too many American cars racing at that time.
Title: Re: Solved: PN #221 -- Cadillac V-63, 1924 at the 1925 Hungarian Touring Race
Post by: Otto Puzzell on May 12, 2012, 03:36:16 AM
Tryin' to snarf my point, are ya?  ;)
Title: Re: Solved: PN #221 -- Cadillac V-63, 1924 at the 1925 Hungarian Touring Race
Post by: RayTheRat on May 12, 2012, 11:07:37 AM
Quote from: Otto Puzzell on May 12, 2012, 03:36:16 AM
Tryin' to snarf my point, are ya?  ;)

Like I said, I didn't wanna cause trouble for ya.  The only points I wanna snarf are the ones yer givin away.   :o