MPC#008 - Solved - 1947 Piacenza starting grid

[Iluvatar]

I don't think this is the car...
MPC

It probably isn't pictured here indeed. I have just found the info that Cattina was a DNS.

[faksta]

#13 - Aldo Renzini, Tinarelli Lancia Aprilia
#15 - Giovanna Maria Cornaggia Medici, Sail Alfa Romeo 2500 SS

OK for the Lancia... but now I don't know what to do for the Alfa... I think I will give a point to SACO too as he found the coachbuilder...
MPC

I really don't know who made the body for that Alfa. Tried to find that yesterday, but ended up with nothing certain. I can make a shot from the book if you'd like, though.

P.S. And oops, the man is Ranzini, not Renzini...

[Iluvatar]

I really don't know who made the body for that Alfa. Tried to find that yesterday, but ended up with nothing certain. I can make a shot from the book if you'd like, though.

P.S. And oops, the man is Ranzini, not Renzini...

I don't know the coachbuilder, but the car looks with Ghia style...
Similar to other Ghia 6C 2500 of that period...
MPC

[Iluvatar]

#6 : Aprillia by Colli ?

Regarding #6, I think SACO could be right about the car.

You know, looking at the second picture you've posted here, #6 doesn't look quite like Aprilia Colli from the side. Rather like Eugenio Minetti's Zagato bodied Aprilia made by Pagani, which was driven by Giovan Battista Azzi in 1947 (who was running that race). Think this is the car.

It has been mentioned at AP before, BTW: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=7318.msg64046#msg64046

I'm not sure about this one...
Are you sure the picture with number 86 is Azzi with a Zagato Aprilia?
And the shape of the fenders is still different...
Nobody has more infos??
MPC

[faksta]

The #86 car is Eugenio Minetti in 1946, the car went to Azzi later AFAIK.

[Iluvatar]

The #86 car is Eugenio Minetti in 1946, the car went to Azzi later AFAIK.

And what about the coachbuilder?? It doesn't look really Zagato...
A few pixture just to compare...
MPC

[faksta]

Here is some info on Sail and Tinarelli from The Book

[Iluvatar]

Here is some info on Sail and Tinarelli from The Book

Reading the text I understand Ghia wasn't involved...
MPC

[faksta]

In case 'disegno' in Italian means the same as its Russian analog - just a visual, artistic work, seems it wasn't, but if like in English 'design' more or less = development, then it still might have been involved. Like (for example) Sail put together Alfa chassis, Ghia body, worked on the engine and dealt with other issues.

[Iluvatar]

In case 'disegno' in Italian means the same as its Russian analog - just a visual, artistic work, seems it wasn't, but if like in English 'design' more or less = development, then it still might have been involved. Like (for example) Sail put together Alfa chassis, Ghia body, worked on the engine and dealt with other issues.

You are right... but I don't know... according to the text Sail was a "carrozzeria" so it was something like a coachbuilder... and looking at the picture the car doesn't looks so much in Ghia style... and maybe creator of this one took inspiration from the Ghia bodies...
MPC

[sixtee5cuda]

I don't think this is the car...
MPC

It probably isn't pictured here indeed. I have just found the info that Cattina was a DNS.

Most of the information about this race, shows 13 cars as starting.  3 cars are shown as DNS.  In all likelihood, 2 of those DNS cars did start the race (to make up the 15 puzzle cars).  I have found images of the Cattina car racing before WWII.  It seems to be an Alfa Romeo 6C 2300B MM by Touring.  I think this is car #11.

[Iluvatar]

I don't think this is the car...
MPC

It probably isn't pictured here indeed. I have just found the info that Cattina was a DNS.

Most of the information about this race, shows 13 cars as starting.  3 cars are shown as DNS.  In all likelihood, 2 of those DNS cars did start the race (to make up the 15 puzzle cars).  I have found images of the Cattina car racing before WWII.  It seems to be an Alfa Romeo 6C 2300B MM by Touring.  I think this is car #11.

Can you post a picture of Cattina's Alfa? I don't know this car, but maybe you can be right...

[sixtee5cuda]

This Alfa Romeo also raced in the 1937 Mille Miglia.  It is strange to think a 10 year old car raced at Piacenza in 1947, until you take into account a large war during the intervening years.

[faksta]

Most of the information about this race, shows 13 cars as starting.  3 cars are shown as DNS.  In all likelihood, 2 of those DNS cars did start the race (to make up the 15 puzzle cars).  I have found images of the Cattina car racing before WWII.  It seems to be an Alfa Romeo 6C 2300B MM by Touring.  I think this is car #11.

He could have stalled on start. I think in this case he would have been classified as DNS? Or this could have been simply a mistake.

[grobmotorix]

#3: Nino Rovelli drove this special BMW 328.
It is not one of the three BMW 328 Touring roadsters that were built for the NSKK by Touring in 1940/41, intended to race in the 1941 Berlin - Rome race that never was...
Nino Rovelli was an ex-Touring employee and has built this car just in the look of the named three NSKK-Roadsters.

So this seems to have been a one-off body on a standard BMW 328 chassis.

Just to complete the first starting row:

#1 (128) Ferrari 125 S was driven by Cortese.
#2 (132) Maserati 6CS-1500 was driven by Angiolini.

[Iluvatar]

#3: Nino Rovelli drove this special BMW 328.
It is not one of the three BMW 328 Touring roadsters that were built for the NSKK by Touring in 1940/41, intended to race in the 1941 Berlin - Rome race that never was...
Nino Rovelli was an ex-Touring employee and has built this car just in the look of the named three NSKK-Roadsters.

So this seems to have been a one-off body one a standard BMW 328 chassis.

Are you sure about it?
Those are pictures of the "Berlin to Rome" roadsters (IAA-57781/2/3) and a drawing from november 1940... just to compare...

[Iluvatar]

This Alfa Romeo also raced in the 1937 Mille Miglia.  It is strange to think a 10 year old car raced at Piacenza in 1947, until you take into account a large war during the intervening years.

Yes, the car looks the same... so I think I can give you the solution of #11
And to reply to faksta...

#11 is probably Giovanni Cattina on Alfa Romeo 8C 2300B MM Touring?

...it's not an 8C 2300...

[Iluvatar]

#6

#6 : Aprillia by Colli ?

Regarding #6, I think SACO could be right about the car.

You know, looking at the second picture you've posted here, #6 doesn't look quite like Aprilia Colli from the side. Rather like Eugenio Minetti's Zagato bodied Aprilia made by Pagani, which was driven by Giovan Battista Azzi in 1947 (who was running that race). Think this is the car.

It has been mentioned at AP before, BTW: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=7318.msg64046#msg64046

I'm not sure about this one...
Are you sure the picture with number 86 is Azzi with a Zagato Aprilia?
And the shape of the fenders is still different...
Nobody has more infos??
MPC

The #86 car is Eugenio Minetti in 1946, the car went to Azzi later AFAIK.

And what about the coachbuilder?? It doesn't look really Zagato...
A few pixture just to compare...
MPC

Pictures of Minetti's Aprilia Zagato (#32, 1938 Coppa Acerbo) and Colli (#68, 1940 Mille Miglia).
The second one looks indeed similar to #6 and to 1946 #86 car. So I think this colud be the same car with a post-war modification... and I can consider #6 solved by SACO, the first to recognize it as a Colli Aprilia...
More info are welcome...

[Iluvatar]

What about #9 and #12??

[als15]

Could #9 be the Siata 1500 Viotti done before the war for V. Mussolini, Scuderia Parioli? This panoramic windscreen could suggest so.

[sixtee5cuda]

My research indicates the unsolved cars are either 2 Lancias, or a Lancia and a Maserati.  #9 being a coupe should make it easy to find, but it hasn't turned out that way.

[grobmotorix]

Are you sure about it?
Those are pictures of the "Berlin to Rome" roadsters (IAA-57781/2/3) and a drawing from november 1940... just to compare...

Yes, that´s what the photo´s text says. And the source has been edited by "BMW Moderne Tradition", so I tend to trust it, really.

It doesn´t sound like he has just altered and tuned one of the three NSKK Touring 328 roadster´s, but took a standard 328 and built a fourth one...

[Iluvatar]

Could #9 be the Siata 1500 Viotti done before the war for V. Mussolini, Scuderia Parioli? This panoramic windscreen could suggest so.

This is a good guess, but...
...I have the Vittorio Mussolini car as a Siata 1100, and if it was a 1100 this is not the correct starting grid (over 1100...).
The car is far and not easy to recognize, but I think the rear fenders looks different and the windshield looks lower...
And indeed sixtee5cuda should be right:

My research indicates the unsolved cars are either 2 Lancias, or a Lancia and a Maserati.  #9 being a coupe should make it easy to find, but it hasn't turned out that way.

[als15]

The year before (it was 1937) V. Mussolini also raced a very similar 1500. Two were made for Scuderia Parioli, one was very soon rebodied with a lighter (and very different) body, but the other probably stayed unchanged. I was guessing it could be this one.
I'll try to post a photo this evening.

[Iluvatar]

The year before (it was 1937) V. Mussolini also raced a very similar 1500. Two were made for Scuderia Parioli, one was very soon rebodied with a lighter (and very different) body, but the other probably stayed unchanged. I was guessing it could be this one.
I'll try to post a photo this evening.

Ok, I found the car you are talking about...
But the fenders still looks different to me, and indeed the only Fiat based cars in that starting grid should be #7-Stanguellini 2800 and #10-Maserati-Fiat 1500 Speciale