Puzzle #45 - Solved! 1957 Talbot-Lago / BMW 2500 Barchetta

[Otto Puzzell]

Know what it is?

Please, respond below and let us know what make and model you think you see here.


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Thanks!

[SeaLion]

Talbot Maserati Le Mans from 1956?

[Otto Puzzell]

Very close...

[Otto Puzzell]

Non-Italian powerplant in this one...

[gilby]

TALBOT BWM

[Otto Puzzell]

Yes!


Known as Darracq to 1920, Talbot of Suresnes, Seine, was acquired that year by the British Sunbeam-Talbot combine. For some years cars were made on both sides of the Channel under the joint names of Talbot Darracq: this led to some confusion, for they were sold from France as Talbot and from England as Darracq.

The same confusion happened with the firm's racing cars. The first models to leave the Suresnes factory after the merger were the 18/20, the four-cylinder ohv 10 cv ( 1505cc) and 12/ 14 cv (2950cc) as well as the 4594cc V-8, discontinued in l923. The four-cylinder models were built until 1926. In 1927 came the excellent six-cylinder Talbots, available in three versions- 2687cc, 2915cc and the 3027cc sport model. In 1930 Talbot presented a straight-eight of 3800cc, of which very few were made. In 1935, the old French factory saw the arrival of the brilliant engineer Anthony Lago, who modified the six to create the Talbot-Lago Special engine of 4000cc.

After the war Talbot-Lago had a great racing history with the wonderful 4483cc ohv six-cylinders. Their "Record" models sold very well. In 1955 Talbot-Lago presented a 2500cc coupé with Maserati engine, and a "Baby" 2.7-litre. BMW 2.6-litre engines were then used, and the last of the line had Simca power. In 1979 the Talbot name was resurrected by Peugeot-Citroën but used with the Simca name for the French market.

[Carnut]

What's this, by whom, from when - for 1 point?:

ANYONE FOUND GIVING ANSWERS OBTAINED BY USING GOOGLE SEARCH BY IMAGE MAY BE BANNED FOR AN INDETERMINATE PERIOD!

[Carnut]

Experts?

[nicanary]

1956 Talbot Lago 2500 Barchetta.

I meant to add bodywork by Bernard Pichon and Andre Parat. Images of this car on the web show it to be red - my reference books for that era are in black-and-white, but all models of the car are in French blue. In addition the restored red car has minor differences in detail at the front, and no "300SL" -style strakes above the wheel arches. Odd, so I could have mis-identified.

[nicanary]

Why ! Why ! I meant Talbot Maserati. It' s the weather I reckon. Snowing a blizzard outside - my daughter tried three different routes to work but had to return (Traffic lights off, telegraph poles down, cars abandoned.) I've got to work tonight, really looking forward to that.

[Carnut]

You're largely there, although you haven't quite given the full name as I have it.
Pichon-Parat made at least 2 very similar cars and the blue one you refer to might be the other one, which is still in blue.  It may be they have different engines though, as the other one was based on a BMW V8 chassis I believe.

So, this is the Maserati-engined Pichon-Parat-bodied Talbot from 1956 (or 1957 or 1958 depending on where you read it!) but what's its full name?

Locked for nicanary's reply.

P.S. I'm far from an expert on these cars so someone might pull me up on what I've written..

[nicanary]

Well the earlier cars were named Gran Sport, and these were on a shorter chassis, and were simply "Sport". Any good ?

[Carnut]

Well the earlier cars were named Gran Sport, and these were on a shorter chassis, and were simply "Sport". Any good ?

No!
Have another look..

[nicanary]

This car is described on Google images as a "sunbeam Talbot Lago 2500 Barchetta Maserati" which is nonsense as far as I'm concerned. Having said that, like yourself I do not profess to be a Talbot expert.

Where they got the "sunbeam" from is beyond me, and I'm pretty sure they dropped the "Lago" from the title for this model.

By all means open it up again, I'm now off to work......

[Carnut]

You can't be typing the right words into Google because I get it up straight away!  But then I know what it's called..

OK, 1 point for whoever can tell me exactly what this car is called (and I might still give nicanary one as he got the right car in the first place..)

[Hiawatha]

That being the case I'll try America Barquette..

[mekubb]

Talbot America Barquette Pichon-Parat 1957

[nicanary]

I think these websites are wrong. The Talbot America was the company's final production car, a coupe powered by a 2.5 litre BMW V8 engine. It had nothing to do with the competition cars, and in any case this Maserati-engined car was, I'm sure, built in 1956. The America coupe was introduced in 1957.

Oh how very,very dare you ! Me getting all uppity.

[Carnut]

OK, I've given Hiawatha a point for coming up with the fact it's (said to be!) an America Barquette also 1 point to nicanary for identifying the right car.  Although it might look like mekubb should have got it for stating the entire name, we had already established it was a Talbot Barquette by Pichon-Parat so Hiawatha provided the missing word, America.

I see what you say about it being an America nicanary and I wouldn't like to argue, but I've checked numerous sites including a few reasonably authoritative ones and that's what it generally seems to be called.  The blue BMW-engined car seems to be called the Talbot Le Mans on some sites but again I don't really know if that's right or wrong..  Of course if there's a Talbot expert out there who can put me right then I'll change it, but in the meantime I have to go on what I can find!

In the meantime, here's a rear view:

[nicanary]

Thank you for the point which (again) wasn't necessarily deserved. I've been thinking about this one - you mentioned earlier that possibly three cars were produced in this style, and I'm beginning to think that maybe the factory made two cars for competition (the Le Mans entries) which were of course painted blue, and then either the works or the coachbuilders were commissioned to make a third car for a private buyer, possibly at a later date, making it 1957. This car had minor detail differences, and maybe was painted red for an Italian buyer (although the car now carries French licence plates).

If the car was in fact completed in 1957, possibly the factory named it "America" to coincide with the launch of the new series-production coupe. Still a bit of a mystery, an I apologise to all puzzlers if I appear unnecessarily argumentative about this. I'll shut up now......

[Carnut]

you mentioned earlier that possibly three cars were produced in this style,

Not quite - only 2 as far as I know (which isn't much admittedly!)
This and the blue 'Le Mans' car..

[nicanary]

you mentioned earlier that possibly three cars were produced in this style,

Not quite - only 2 as far as I know (which isn't much admittedly!)
This and the blue 'Le Mans' car..

Lordy, this one could run and run. There were two entries (and they both raced) at Le Mans 1956, chassis nos. 138 and 139. They had distinctive "lips" over the front wheel arches which are missing on the puzzle car. And since they were factory entries, they were almost certainly "French blue" - Lucas/Zehender and Behra/Rosier.

That's not to say that the mystery car isn't one of these - the first-named entry crashed in the race, and may have been rebuilt in the slightly different style and resprayed to suit a new buyer. (You'ld think by now a Talbot expert would have weighed in and put us out of our misery !)

[woodinsight]

I believe I have the answer to this one through a very reliable source.
Let me have a couple of days to scan the pages before posting them.
This should then clear up most of the questions of this Talbot and others.

[Carnut]

I believe I have the answer to this one through a very reliable source.
Let me have a couple of days to scan the pages before posting them.
This should then clear up most of the questions of this Talbot and others.

Look forward to your info, thanks.

The blue one:

[Paul Jaray]

I'd like to know more about this particular car.
This is what I found:

"After the closing down of the Talbot Lago works in Suresnes, professional French racing driver Victor Grignard bought the five chassis remaining in the factory. Three of these were powered by Maserati engines and only two by the BMW V8 with a displacement of 2.5 litre. Unfortunately Monsieur Grignard passed away shortly after the purchase. His daughter then sold the two BMW engined chassis to a textile industrialist from the North of France, Dominique Dupont. Dupont was not only a respected Talbot collector but actually president of the Talbot Club. One of the two cars were kept by his brother while Dupont proceeded to have chassis 140-077B fitted with a body designed by French coachbuilders Pichon et Parat. He commissioned ex Talbot factory engineers to built the body for his car following the coachbuilders' design.The result was and still is a beautiful open 2-seater 'Barquette' body, which, mated to the easily maintainable BMW V8 provided eager performance, supplying approximately 150 bhp to the rear wheels. A 4-speed ZF gearbox is responsible for conveying the power to the differential."

The look is the same of the T26GS Barchetta that run at Le Mans in 1956 (with a Maserati engine).
Googling around you can find the puzzle car, a red one a blue one and one with an unfinished grey body.

Should this be called a Talbot Lago Barquette Dupont? When was it built?
I know I could try to find the answer myself but I'm working on a huge project and I know there are many of you out there that know the story!