AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!
Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2013 => Topic started by: als15 on November 27, 2012, 05:48:50 PM
-
One photo for 8 points.
1 point for each car (#3 and #5 from left are the same) and 1 for telling which coachbuilder this workshop belongs to.
-
Coachbuilder: Scioneri - Iluvatar
#1 - 1939 1940 Dodge pick-up -sixtee5cuda
#2 - Mathis PY - ropat53
#3 - #5 - Fiat 1100/103 - Iluvatar
#4 - Fiat 1100 E - targhediferro
#6 - Fiat 1100 - thorax
#7 - Peugeot 203 - Wendax
#8 - Hanomag L28 - Wendax
Iluvatar: 2 points
Wendax: 2 points
sixte5cuda: 1 point
thorax: 1 point
targhediferro: 1 point
ropat53: 1 point
-
At least 2 or 3 are quite obvious... Sorry for the Rookies, but now is also time for Experts.
-
Is #1 a 1939-1942 Dodge truck?
-
???
Ok, let's say that about 1, 2, 7 and 8 I don't know (or am not sure)... Can you prove your guess?
-
I can't prove it yet. I found lots of 1939-1942 Dodge truck images, but none have that hood ornament, or that small number of grills in the front of the hood (bonnet)
-
Ok, let's say that this coachbuilder was involved in recovering ex-army vehicles (also American) and turn them into civil vehicles in the early post-war years. So, if the body looks like a 1939 Dodge, we can assume it's one of his jobs on this truck (and the ornanment is something added by him).
Have you, for the records, a picture of the original Dodge truck?
-
Here is a 1939 Dodge Pickup.
-
I've seen also other pictures without the front trim and the louvres behind are the same. Only, on the bonnet there are more than the 3 in the photo... However, I think that #1 in the photo is indeed this Dodge.
-
# 6 : Fiat 1100 BLR
-
Hi All:
The Dodge is a 1940 model, pic attached.
The "modern" truck at the end is most likely a Borgward.
Looking for the others.
-
# 2 : Fiat 618?
-
Bill, the Modern Truck has suicide (rear-hinged) doors. I don't think it is a Borgward.
-
Cuda:
Yeah, Borgward was a bit of a guess but I think I will find it.
Re: the Dodge, we need to be careful here, or at least I do.
That it is a 1940 year model I am comfortable with. However, the hood ornament is wrong for a Dodge. I think the "mask" chrome piece in the middle is just missing.
As you probably know, Chrysler marketed the basic Dodge truck as respectively, Fargo, DeSoto and Plymouth on various export markets.
I cannot prove it yet, but I think this one may be a Fargo.
FWIW, I agree with Thor on #6.
If he is correct, and I see he just ID'd #2 as another Fiat, this should give us some direction on the coachbuilder's location.
Bit of a puzzling puzzle, but fun to research.
-
# 6 : Fiat 1100 BLR
Yes: a BLR, ELR (or even an old ALR). Impossible to say from the front, but for sure a Fiat 1100.
# 2 : Fiat 618?
I don't know, but I don't think so: in the high-res version of the photo the radiator frame doesn't look Fiat.
The "modern" truck at the end is most likely a Borgward.
Again: not sure. We need a picture here too.
Generally, a clue: some vehicles can actually be ex-army. In particular, I can't imagine American vehicles here unless they have been abandoned by the Army after the war ;)
-
I was following another mystery and came up with an idea.
Can the coachbuilder be Fissore??
-
Viberti??
-
I was following another mystery and came up with an idea.
Can the coachbuilder be Fissore??
Viberti??
Good guess! Smaller and related to both. I'd say, closer to the first...
-
...Coriasco??
-
The last one... maybe OM?
-
Neither Coriasco nor OM.
Read carefully my last answer: the clues are very big... ;)
-
Esperia??
Please, I am not just throwing out names, I really am doing research and trying to find Italian coach builders that survived on converting prewar and wartime vehicles just after the end of the war.
-
Not Esperia.
Think about what I wrote:
"Related both to Fissore and Viberti and closer to the first".
You should look for a coachbuilder that has connections with these two.
-
Was the coachbuilder located in Turin?
-
Not in Turin.
-
#3 and #5 maybe Fiat 1500?
-
Not that. Look at the cars: even if naked, the chassis tells more... and there are at least 2 reasons why they cannot be 1500...
-
Not that. Look at the cars: even if naked, the chassis tells more... and there are at least 2 reasons why they cannot be 1500...
You are right... the engine looks like Fiat 1100/103... right?
-
... Scioneri?? (from Savigliano...)
-
Just some more thoughts.
I am still lost on the coach builder, but regarding the two identical vehicles, can they be former Fiat 1100 Coloniale (spelling?) staff car vehicles sans bodywork??
-
Two points for Iluvatar!
The coachbuilder is indeed Scioneri (which was a former employee of Fissore and who took over the military production of Viberti when his plant was destroyed by the British bombing).
And cars 3-5 are Fiat 1100/103.
For Bill: he was also reworking ex-army vehicles. Not only them, however.
And the cars are 1100/103 with unibody (see the wheelarches) and not former versions with separate chassis.
-
#5 sholud be a car simlar to this one, from 1953... looking at the shape of the wood maquette for the roof... I search a 1100 with that roof and I found Scioneri...
-
Yes, I think it's that one.
What I'm not sure, is if it is actually a wooden body frame (but the pillars look too thick) or a very simple mock-up for the metal-sheets forming.
-
Yes, I think it's that one.
What I'm not sure, is if it is actually a wooden body frame (but the pillars look too thick) or a very simple mock-up for the metal-sheets forming.
I think a mock-up, the windows of the finished cars are bigger (and the pillars thicker as you said)...
-
#8 Fiat 615?
-
Definitely not.
-
#7 maybe a Lancia Aprilia?
-
It could be, but I'm not sure. Have you a picture of an Aprilia chassis to show us?
-
Double-checked: no, it doesn't look like an Aprilia. Different scuttle, different tail...
-
Ok, this one needs a professional expertise...
-
Truck #8 is a Hanomag L 28 in the early version with rear hinged doors
-
Of course!
Now only 3 are left. ;)
-
At first sight, #7 looks like a Peugeot 203 to me.
-
Could be: can you post a reference picture to be compared?
-
I found a picture of a 203 with detached front fenders, and it looks different underneath :(
-
Here are the close-up at high-res of the 3 still missing. Perhaps they can help...
-
In the high resolution picture you can recognize the Peugeot lion of #7 (see below).
What fooled me was that in the Scioneri picture parts of the right front are missing, not just detached fenders.
-
Indeed! Another one gone!
-
#2 : OM?
-
To be proven...
I don't know, but the radiator frame is quite particular. A picture will probably demonstrate if you are right...
-
#4: wheels seems to be a Fiat Balilla ones, but engine and steering wheel ...... :-\
-
#2 seems to be a Fiat 514 or 508 with a strange radiator grill; do you know if that grill owns to that particular kind of truck or perhaps it has been adapted only at the one in the picture?
-
#2 seems to be a Fiat 514 or 508 with a strange radiator grill; do you know if that grill owns to that particular kind of truck or perhaps it has been adapted only at the one in the picture?
IMO it's bigger. If I read correctly the license plate (CN 4047), it should be from 1930, but the shape looks even older.
#4: wheels seems to be a Fiat Balilla ones, but engine and steering wheel ...... :-\
I agree about the wheels, but it's a quite common design. IMO, the real clue is that strange scuttle-plate and also the garbox on the steering column. I don't think it's a Balilla.
-
I suppose that #4 could be a fiat 1100E, it had that air filter, the column gear, and 150x50 pneus. The steering may be an aftermarket one, so we could imagine that chassis to become a beautiful cabriolet.
-
I suppose that #4 could be a fiat 1100E, it had that air filter, the column gear, and 150x50 pneus. The steering may be an aftermarket one, so we could imagine that chassis to become a beautiful cabriolet.
I'm not 100% sure, but I can agree with you. BTW, the 1100 E does have the steering-column mounted gearshift lever; also the brake fluyd reservoir in that position and the vertical air filter match. Only, I never saw before that flat panel...
Nevertheless, let's say it is indeed a Fiat 1100 E.
-
Something about #2:
Year about 1930
front lights fiat or anyway similar
Right hand drive (common in Italy too for trucks)
Probably 4c, I suppose not under 1100, not over 1500
Front fender quite elegant, perhaps coming from a saloon (I mean not properly designed for a truck)
Very particular front grill, different from all Fiat, Lancia, Ceirano, OM, Bianchi I know;
So, as we have two other German trucks, is it possible this is not a not Italian vehicle?
-
Yes, it can even be not Italian: as you see, this workshop hosts a lot of different vehicles.
On the other hand, if I read correctly the license-plate, it has a pre-war Italian registration, so it's not a military wreck. Foreing cars in Italy in '30s were rare, but of course some have been imported.
About the radiator frame, I agree with you: it's indeed the clue to identify it because it's very particular.
-
#2 Mathis PY 1930
-
Great solution! A very well deserved point for you!
-
#2 Mathis PY 1930
:o