Solved - MJW #1060 - Menko prototype 1946

[woodinsight]

Avior 1946?

Not an Avior but the year is correct...

[4popoid]

This puzzle car has fascinated me since the day it was posted.  It appears to be a prototype cobbled together from various bits and pieces of earlier cars (hood, fenders, doors, etc.).  Every time I think that I have a working theory, a new conflicting bit of information emerges.  Presently, if I understand correctly we have a Belgian made prototype, with independent suspension, produced by an obscure manufacturer (not Imperia, Minerva, FN, Astra or Avior) in 1946. 

This evening I came across this interesting statement: "In 1938 the company (Minerva) built three special Ford V8 prototypes in which the engine lay across the frame and drove the front wheels via torque converters. In addition, all of the wheels were independently sprung. However, all three were destroyed in an effort to keep the technology away from the advancing German army." Because I think the puzzle car has a hood resembling a 1941 Ford, I theorized that perhaps Ford had attempted to resurrect this line of thinking, but if this were correct, who built it?  Minerva/Imperia were building prototypes, as well as production cars, for other manufacturers in 1946, but they apparently weren't involved in this one.  Ford could have done it themselves, at their Antwerp plant (if it had recovered from war damage in 1946), but they certainly aren't an obscure manufacturer.  So who?

I rather doubt that Ford would have turned such a project over to a local shop, and, while a bit of Belgian heavy industry had resumed after the war, the only other Belgian auto manufacturer (not counting coach builders), operating in 1946, that I can determine was Altona.  Although Altona's product looks nothing like the puzzle car, I will go out on a limb, and suggest that the puzzle car might be a: 1946 Ford prototype by Altona.     

[woodinsight]

This puzzle car has fascinated me since the day it was posted.  It appears to be a prototype cobbled together from various bits and pieces of earlier cars (hood, fenders, doors, etc.).  Every time I think that I have a working theory, a new conflicting bit of information emerges.  Presently, if I understand correctly we have a Belgian made prototype, with independent suspension, produced by an obscure manufacturer (not Imperia, Minerva, FN, Astra or Avior) in 1946. 

This evening I came across this interesting statement: "In 1938 the company (Minerva) built three special Ford V8 prototypes in which the engine lay across the frame and drove the front wheels via torque converters. In addition, all of the wheels were independently sprung. However, all three were destroyed in an effort to keep the technology away from the advancing German army." Because I think the puzzle car has a hood resembling a 1941 Ford, I theorized that perhaps Ford had attempted to resurrect this line of thinking, but if this were correct, who built it?  Minerva/Imperia were building prototypes, as well as production cars, for other manufacturers in 1946, but they apparently weren't involved in this one.  Ford could have done it themselves, at their Antwerp plant (if it had recovered from war damage in 1946), but they certainly aren't an obscure manufacturer.  So who?

I rather doubt that Ford would have turned such a project over to a local shop, and, while a bit of Belgian heavy industry had resumed after the war, the only other Belgian auto manufacturer (not counting coach builders), operating in 1946, that I can determine was Altona.  Although Altona's product looks nothing like the puzzle car, I will go out on a limb, and suggest that the puzzle car might be a: 1946 Ford prototype by Altona.     

No, it's not a Ford prototype by Altona.

However since you have carried out a great deal of research on this one I'm going to lock it for you until your next reply and give you a small clue.

The car was fitted with an aircraft engine.....

Good luck and Happy New Year!

[targhediferro]

Demati 1939?

[4popoid]

Thanks for the lock.   I'm not sure that I can do a lot with it, although the hint, regarding aircraft engine, opens up a new train of thought.  It appears that two Belgian aircraft manufacturers survived the war, although heavily damaged.  The first, Avions Fairey (a Belgian division of the British Fairey Aviation) seems to have limited itself to aircraft production, and repair.

The second aircraft firm to survive the war was Stampe et Vertongen, which became Stampe & Renard in 1947.  This resulting company was a collaboration of Jean Stampe and Alfred Renard (born Alfred Fox).  Renard was an engineer, specializing in aircraft engines, and businessman, who headed his own company, Fox Aeroindustry (originally Aircraft and Engines Fox) in the pre-war period.  During the war Renard went into hiding, and participated in the resistance.  After the war, Renard emerged from hiding to become a technical adviser with the Belgian railways (SCNB), before joining with Stampe in 1947.

Although I can find no evidence that either Renard or Stampe was involved with automobiles, I deduce that the puzzle car may have been a post-war idea of aircraft engine designer Alfred Renard, produced in 1946 by his friend, and soon to be partner, Jean Stampe at Stampe et Vertongen.   

[woodinsight]

Demati 1939?

This was LOCKED for 4popold - remember to check before you post!
Anyhow, it's not a Demati and the date, as already established, is 1946......

[targhediferro]

Sorry, I didn't see it was looked.

[woodinsight]

Thanks for the lock.   I'm not sure that I can do a lot with it, although the hint, regarding aircraft engine, opens up a new train of thought.  It appears that two Belgian aircraft manufacturers survived the war, although heavily damaged.  The first, Avions Fairey (a Belgian division of the British Fairey Aviation) seems to have limited itself to aircraft production, and repair.

The second aircraft firm to survive the war was Stampe et Vertongen, which became Stampe & Renard in 1947.  This resulting company was a collaboration of Jean Stampe and Alfred Renard (born Alfred Fox).  Renard was an engineer, specializing in aircraft engines, and businessman, who headed his own company, Fox Aeroindustry (originally Aircraft and Engines Fox) in the pre-war period.  During the war Renard went into hiding, and participated in the resistance.  After the war, Renard emerged from hiding to become a technical adviser with the Belgian railways (SCNB), before joining with Stampe in 1947.

Although I can find no evidence that either Renard or Stampe was involved with automobiles, I deduce that the puzzle car may have been a post-war idea of aircraft engine designer Alfred Renard, produced in 1946 by his friend, and soon to be partner, Jean Stampe at Stampe et Vertongen.   

That's an interesting reply 4popold but I have to tell you that the make of engine is not Belgian.....
Also it was an engine that was used in a light aircraft.
I'll OPEN it again so that others can join in.

[woodinsight]

Sorry, I didn't see it was looked.

No problem.
I'll try to mark the LOCK more prominently in the future  ;)

[4popoid]

I'm pretty much at a loss, but, since you stated that the aircraft engine is not Belgian, I'll give it another go.  In my previous reply I stated that: (post war) "Avions Fairey (a Belgian division of the British Fairey Aviation) seems to have limited itself to aircraft production, and repair".  However, post war, but prior to 1947, Avions Fairey was developing two light aircraft models utilizing two small aircraft engines, one Czechoslovakian (Walter Mikron II), and one British (Aeronca-JAP J-99).

I know it's a reach, but might the puzzle car be: a prototype car cobbled together by Avions Fairey, in 1946, utilizing one of these small aircraft engines? 

[woodinsight]

I'm pretty much at a loss, but, since you stated that the aircraft engine is not Belgian, I'll give it another go.  In my previous reply I stated that: (post war) "Avions Fairey (a Belgian division of the British Fairey Aviation) seems to have limited itself to aircraft production, and repair".  However, post war, but prior to 1947, Avions Fairey was developing two light aircraft models utilizing two small aircraft engines, one Czechoslovakian (Walter Mikron II), and one British (Aeronca-JAP J-99).

I know it's a reach, but might the puzzle car be: a prototype car cobbled together by Avions Fairey, in 1946, utilizing one of these small aircraft engines? 

The engine isn't Czechoslovakian or British (or Belgian) but it is European....

[Hiawatha]

French?

[woodinsight]

Yes, the engine is French.....

[woodinsight]

and finally up to the Pros....

[pnegyesi]

Anglo-Germain?

[woodinsight]

Anglo-Germain?

Not that but it does comprise two words.

[pnegyesi]

did the company built other cars as well?

[woodinsight]

did the company built other cars as well?

They didn't build other cars but built another form of road-going machines.
This car was the prototype of their first car but it was withdrawn at the prototype stage as being too risky financially to proceed with.

[pnegyesi]

Bovy Pipe?

[woodinsight]

Bovy Pipe?

Not a Bovy-Pipe.

By the way, as an extra clue, the engine was a two-stroke 3-cyl of over 500cc.....

[pnegyesi]

Lion-Rouge (Stevenick &Sons)?

[franck.kegelart]

Menko 1946. The company was essentially known in the prewar time for making Souplex motorcycles. The engine came a little Aubier-Dunne plane. It remained a prototype - altough several chassis were made.

[woodinsight]

Menko 1946. The company was essentially known in the prewar time for making Souplex motorcycles. The engine came a little Aubier-Dunne plane. It remained a prototype - altough several chassis were made.

Yes, that's the car - well done Franck!

If I can quote from my source -

During the 1930s Joseph Menko ran a small factory making industrial washing machines. In 1939 he began to build Souplex small-wheeled motorcycles.
During the war when production was stopped, Joseph Menko developed a prototype car. It had two doors, four seats, all-independent suspension and was powered by an Aubier-Dunne light aircraft engine.
After the war motorcycle production resumed and the prototype car was successfully tested. With the help of a sleeping partner, Menko hoped to build a small series.
He abandoned the motorcycles and began production of the first chassis but quickly became aware of the financial risk involved and wisely returned to producing washing machines.
He died in 1983.

I only have a the photo of the puzzle car and don't know if others still exist.

[Bill Murray]

My congratulations as well, Franck.

I didn't really post much on this one but I put hours into research and came up with nothing.  But, as always, I learned a lot more about the Belgian auto/truck/moto industries.

Never a dull moment on this Forum.
Bill

[Hiawatha]

Same here,I tried everything..Well done.

Luciano