An easy one...but I'm going to ask a further question once the car is identified.
ASA Guardian, built by Advaced Security Agency from Milan, armoured car based on the military version of the Fiat Campagnola. The picture dates from around 1982.
OK..and that was the easy bit.
ASA never revealed how did they get the design of this vehicle.
It's not hard but quite interesting.
Are you looking for a designer's name or for an explanation?
There is an interesting (and I hope quite unknown) story behind this vehicle.
I can't tell you much or it will be too easy but with some guesses in the right direction it should be done.
I won't lock it...the hard part cames now!
It was featured in a group puzzle before and I think it was also Wendax who solved it...
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=19644.0
So I guess it was not an inhouse design.
Quote from: Allemano on April 15, 2013, 11:58:53 AM
It was featured in a group puzzle before and I think it was also Wendax who solved it...
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=19644.0
It is the ASA Guardian, but I'm looking for something else...
Quote from: Wendax on April 15, 2013, 12:05:24 PM
So I guess it was not an inhouse design.
Yep!
Has it been designed by some famous designer/design studio?
Could it be a Giugiaro design?
Did they use an already existing design made for another manufacturer?
Quote from: Allemano on April 15, 2013, 12:17:23 PM
Has it been designed by some famous designer/design studio?
Could it be a Giugiaro design?
Yes\No.
Quote from: Wendax on April 15, 2013, 12:18:55 PM
Did they use an already existing design made for another manufacturer?
very likely...
By an Italian designer?
Yes!
Boneschi?
Not Boneschi.
Diomante?
Not Diomante.
Pininfarina?
Not Pininfarina.
Open Design?
Not Open Desing.
Maggiora?
Not Maggiora.
Zagato (who made armoured cars and is also from Milan) comes to mind.
Not Zagato.
To help you all, it's not one of the obscure ones.
Quote from: Paul Jaray on April 19, 2013, 07:11:59 AM
Not Zagato.
To help you all, it's not one of the obscure ones.
The least obscure one that is not mentioned yet is Bertone...
Not Bertone.
I know there are many names left but we have approx 22 cars from this one here on AP.
Vignale?
Michelotti?
iC?
Not Vignale, Michelotti or ...iC?
Looking at the vehicle, it would be one of my first guess...(but I know the answer ;D)
IDEA?
Not IDEA.
Fissore?
Fissore is the name.
Now, what's the story behind?
Locked for you.
Please unlock. I have no idea about the story of this car. The only Fissore off-road I remember is the Raylton Magnum, then Laforza, a SUV from '90s. But I'm sure it has no connection with this car.
Think easy.
Match the single parts.
Is it related to the fact that Fissore was at the time of the ASA Guradian struggling to survive?
Not that.
You just have to read again the few clues and ask yourself a specific question.
The answer to that question is the easiest one.
Was it a Fissore design for a bulletproof Monteverdi?
Not that...
Euh...there are actually not that many clues available... :huh:
Had one or more people left Fissore (together with the Guardian concept) and joined/founded ASA.
Quote from: 75america on April 24, 2013, 11:19:15 AM
Euh...there are actually not that many clues available... :huh:
Had one or more people left Fissore (together with the Guardian concept) and joined/founded ASA.
I know it seems like that...but is quite hard to find a way to give a clue without revealing the solution.
You are close:
The pieces to connect were:
1- The design was not by ASA.
2- They never revealed who did it.
The question was:
Why?
(and how did this info get out?)
Locked for your next reply.
It's very kind of you that you summarize ALL ;D clues together, but it doesn't help me any further.
I can think of several possible answers on the Why? question, but most probably not the easiest amongst them.
Just some quick brainstorming and the following things popped up:
- For some reason, one or both companies did not want to be associated with the other company
- For some reason, Fissore did not want to be associated with the Guardian car
- For some (marketing?) reason, ASA was some kind of a fake firm by Fissore, and all work was actually executed by Fissore
- Fissore possessed the technical capability to compete in the armour plated vehicle sector but it was not quick to promote itself and it neither found, nor even looked for, the all-important ministerial or political support necessary to obtain orders. While ASA perhaps had that necessary support and promoted itself much bettter. But perhaps ASA only got the necessary support if they executed all work by themselves, therefore, the true story was untold.
...
:scratch:
Quote from: 75america on April 24, 2013, 02:34:39 PM
It's very kind of you that you summarize ALL ;D clues together, but it doesn't help me any further.
I can think of several possible answers on the Why? question, but most probably not the easiest amongst them.
Just some quick brainstorming and the following things popped up:
- For some reason, one or both companies did not want to be associated with the other company
- For some reason, Fissore did not want to be associated with the Guardian car
- For some (marketing?) reason, ASA was some kind of a fake firm by Fissore, and all work was actually executed by Fissore
- Fissore possessed the technical capability to compete in the armour plated vehicle sector but it was not quick to promote itself and it neither found, nor even looked for, the all-important ministerial or political support necessary to obtain orders. While ASA perhaps had that necessary support and promoted itself much bettter. But perhaps ASA only got the necessary support if they executed all work by themselves, therefore, the true story was untold.
...
:scratch:
I wrote it from the beginning...the easiest thing it could happen...and the kind of thing you won't say from one side (ASA) and you can't say from the other (Fissore) but you would like to...
Locked for Wendax (who found the car) Targhediferro (who found the coachbuilder) or 75america (who was quite close).
Some ASA people made photos of the plans when visiting Fissore?
Quote from: 75america on April 24, 2013, 11:19:15 AM
Had one or more people left Fissore (together with the Guardian concept) and joined/founded ASA.
Quote from: Wendax on April 24, 2013, 03:03:01 PM
Some ASA people made photos of the plans when visiting Fissore?
I do not have the detail of it, but I found an interesting ...piece of info.
You are both talking of the same idea that can be expressed in a very, very simple way, that is the one in my source (more or less).
ASA stole the design...
:bow:
That's it...plane and simple.
I found a letter of Eraldo Fissore complaing the fact that ASA was not the father of that vehicle.
I'll report the text and let google do the translation.
"(...)Tutto il mondo copia e anche l'ASA l'ha fatto mettendo il proprio nome e cognome sui nostri progetti e facendolisi realizzare altrove (di certo a ben miglior prezzo). Però non tutto il mondo, copiando, riceve anche, come ha ricevuto l' ASA, i disegni e una minuziosa descrizione tecnica della costruzione, quindi il 'piatto fatto e pronto a servire'. Ci lamentiamo che in Italia purtroppo per avere giustizia su un fatto come questo, e non soltanto come questo, occorrono anni e anni e...la vita passa, i W scendono, gli abbasso salgono, le delusioni incidono e...così via.(...) così si saprà che l'ASA non è un costruttore ma un ufficio di compra-vendita e anche... di ottima 'man-bassa' come in questo caso"
Eraldo Fissore
Everyone in the world copies,and ASA did it too by putting his name and surname on our projects and by realizing them elsewhere (certainly at a much better price). But not everyone around the world, copying, also receives, as ASA did, drawings and a detailed technical description of the building, the 'plate made and ready to serve', then. We complain that in Italy unfortunately to have justice on a matter like this, and not just like this, it takes years and years and ... life goes, the 'up with' descend, the 'down with' raise, disappointments had theyr impact ... etc. (...) you will now know that ASA is not a manufacturer but a Marketing Office and even ... of excellent 'low-level ' as in this case'
Sadly this is an all too familiar story in motoring history, and one that the Chinese have become real experts in in recent years! :-\
Solved!
Interesting.
ASA never revealed who was responsible for the design, but why didn't Fissore made it public back then?
Can you reveal where that letter is coming from and when it was written?
In that letter, there is written "nostri progetti", so Eraldo Fissore referred to more projects than just one (there is not mentioned that he means the Guardian). So, what other vehicles did ASA made? And is there known which of them were also stolen projects (from Fissore or others)?
PM sent. ;)
Can I have a copy of the same PM? You know why... ;)
Alright, I don't like secrets and I'm the one who loves to share info.
I took that letter from Quattroruote, issue #320.
(I use to take some puzzles from there, that's why I was so misterious about ;) )
Quote from: als15 on April 26, 2013, 04:53:14 PM
Can I have a copy of the same PM? You know why... ;)
It seems you found something more... ;)