What is this?
1 point for you!
From Europe?
Yes!
Any connection to Ford?
Not that I'm aware of.
By any large maker?
German?
Is there a pic available showing this car with doors/trunk/bonnet closed?
I have the vague feeling that I've seen that triangular side window before...
:)
Based on an Audi?
Yes...
B2 platform...but with some design influences of the B3...?
It's heavily reworked...even the engine is not the original one (a 2200 reduced to 2000).
Is it a current or defunct make ?
A project, not a make...
Was a major coachbuilder involved?
Nope...
University project?
Nope...
from the UK?
was this a project by a supplier?
Quote from: Allemano on August 15, 2013, 01:33:30 PM
from the UK?
Nope...
Quote from: pnegyesi on August 15, 2013, 01:52:05 PM
was this a project by a supplier?
I won't call it a supplier, but yours is the closest guess so far.
Wheel maker ?
engineering company?
Was Cosworth involved?
Zender?
design studio?
Nope...
nicanary was the closer but not quite near.
Bosch ?
Not Bosh or a name of that magnitudo.
A tire company?
Not tires...or any other piece of a car.
car magazine?
Not a car magazine or a publication at all.
raw material producer, like BASF?
The car was not built in the UK or Germany, and is based on Audi mechanicals.
Was the car built in Italy?
Quote from: pnegyesi on August 16, 2013, 03:08:10 PM
raw material producer, like BASF?
Not a company producing anything to build a car.
Quote from: sixtee5cuda on August 16, 2013, 03:09:57 PM
The car was not built in the UK or Germany, and is based on Audi mechanicals.
Was the car built in Italy?
So far so good!
A model-car company - such as Bburago ?
but was it a model company?
nicanery asked for 'wheelmaker?' and you replied ~ closer than other guesses, but not quite near... :scratch:
Is it maybe a car for a movie production?
Was there a particular reason why the engine capacity was reduced from 2200 to 2000 cc?
And is there a non-embarrassing reason for the fake mid-engined-side-air-intakes?
Was the engine capacity was reduced, to offset a corresponding increase in boost pressure?
Agip?
Built before 1990?
Two litre displacement sounds like Italian tax restrictions to me.
Quote from: pnegyesi on August 17, 2013, 04:22:18 AM
but was it a model company?
sorry, I was not clear...not a model company.
Quote from: Allemano on August 17, 2013, 07:18:35 AM
nicanery asked for 'wheelmaker?' and you replied ~ closer than other guesses, but not quite near... :scratch:
Is it maybe a car for a movie production?
Quotewas this a project by a supplier?
I won't call it a supplier, but yours is the closest guess so far.
this was the one I meant, not nicanary's one ...I don't know why I put his name later...
about your guess...it's not a car for a movie production but you are drammatically close.
Quote from: 75america on August 17, 2013, 09:18:14 AM
Was there a particular reason why the engine capacity was reduced from 2200 to 2000 cc?
And is there a non-embarrassing reason for the fake mid-engined-side-air-intakes?
Quote from: sixtee5cuda on August 17, 2013, 09:28:05 AM
Was the engine capacity was reduced, to offset a corresponding increase in boost pressure?
Quote from: Wendax on August 17, 2013, 01:07:37 PM
Two litre displacement sounds like Italian tax restrictions to me.
Wendax is right...it was intended for production.
Quote from: Otto Puzzell on August 17, 2013, 09:38:37 AM
Agip?
Not Agip or an oil company
Quote from: sixtee5cuda on August 17, 2013, 09:42:43 AM
Built before 1990?
After that...
Pirelli?
Not Pirelli.
Is the car a hybrid, produced/sponsored by a supplier of electricity/electrical gear?
Not an hybrid.
Not by a supplier of any kind.
QuoteIs it maybe a car for a movie production?
This is not correct but terribly close.
Built for a TV series?
This car never appeared on TV...nevertheless you are dancing around the right answer.
Built for promotion purposes?
Nope...
To sum up:
Built in Italy, later than 1990, meant for production, Audi-based, not by a supplier, an engineering company, a model car company, an oil company, a magazine, a design studio or a company producing any part of the car.
It was not built for a movie, TV series and it never appeared on TV.
It was meant for production and not for promotion purposes.......
Was the development of the car being paid for by a TV or film company, so they could attach their name to it ?
Quote from: nicanary on August 17, 2013, 07:10:33 PM
Was the development of the car being paid for by a TV or film company, so they could attach their name to it ?
Not precisely, but you are into something...not a TV or film company.
is it related to a theatre play?
Not that.
The key is the Company and why they decided to buid this car.
The Company is not totally disconnected from the automotive field but is not producing anything to build or engineer it...
Is it an industry association?
A car rental?
Quote from: pnegyesi on August 18, 2013, 06:13:30 AM
Is it an industry association?
Quote from: Wendax on August 18, 2013, 06:23:03 AM
A car rental?
They sell products...not a car rental or an industry association.
You said I was closer with wheels, and it's not a part of the car.... is it a manufacturer of jacks/hoists ?
was it built after the ban of Group-B rallycars as an evolution of these cars into a civilian 'roadcar'
Quote from: nicanary on August 18, 2013, 07:23:33 AM
You said I was closer with wheels, and it's not a part of the car.... is it a manufacturer of jacks/hoists ?
Nothing about wheels, I was wrong, it was pnegyesi's reply, not yours...sorry about that.
Quote from: hermanoto on August 18, 2013, 07:35:46 AM
was it built after the ban of Group-B rallycars as an evolution of these cars into a civilian 'roadcar'
Nothing to do with races.
Was the car featured in a comic book (similar to the Turbot cars and the Vaillante)
...nope but probably you got it...
Was it featured in a car magazine (maybe another QR car?) as a virtual 'car of tomorrow' or something like that?
Featured in a video game (although I doubt that graphics were already good enough to clearly define the details of cars in games)?
Quote from: Allemano on August 18, 2013, 08:24:12 AM
Was it featured in a car magazine (maybe another QR car?) as a virtual 'car of tomorrow' or something like that?
nothing like that. The car is real.
Quote from: 75america on August 18, 2013, 08:40:49 AM
Featured in a video game (although I doubt that graphics were already good enough to clearly define the details of cars in games)?
Nope...
Quote from: Paul Jaray on August 18, 2013, 06:10:43 AM
Not that.
The key is the Company and why they decided to buid this car.
The Company is not totally disconnected from the automotive field but is not producing anything to build or engineer it...
Quote from: 75america on August 18, 2013, 08:20:04 AM
Was the car featured in a comic book (similar to the Turbot cars and the Vaillante)
You are quite near to find the 1st part....
OK, I'll make it clearer....the puzzle car was never on TV.
Animated movie?
So the design and development of this car was paid for by a publisher?
Quotewas this a project by a supplier?
I won't call it a supplier, but yours is the closest guess so far.
QuoteIs it maybe a car for a movie production?
This is not correct but terribly close.
QuoteIt was not built for a movie, TV series and it never appeared on TV.
It was meant for production and not for promotion purposes.......
QuoteThey sell products...
QuoteThe key is the Company and why they decided to buid this car.
QuoteWas the car featured in a comic book (similar to the Turbot cars and the Vaillante)
You are quite near to find the 1st part....
I won't waste your time.
If you rearrange what you read above you'll see:
There is a company selling products.
The Turbot/Vaillante guess was in the right direction. (do you remeber those cars? Where do they come from? Why?)
'A car for a movie production' was terribly close but the
Puzzle car never appeared on TV, Movie, comics, etc.
So, they did another version of this which actually had its debut on film?
Nope, this car was never featured on TV, etc.
Like the Turbot and the Vaillante it was the 'real' version of an 'unreal' car.
The original was a cartoon car?
Not a cartoon...remember, there's a company selling products behind this car...and this car was not built for promotional purposes...the 'unreal' car was a mock-up....
Bulgari
Quote from: Paul Jaray on August 19, 2013, 03:18:26 PM
Not a cartoon...remember, there's a company selling products behind this car...and this car was not built for promotional purposes...the 'unreal' car was a mock-up....
:scratch: I have to admit the more I follow this thread the more I get confused...
Quote from: Paul Jaray on August 18, 2013, 07:16:37 AM
They sell products...not a car rental or an industry association.
Kind of immaterial products = services?
Quote from: Allemano on August 19, 2013, 03:26:01 PM
:scratch: I have to admit the more I follow this thread the more I get confused...
And on top of that, I wonder the whole time why this car is equipped with a sunroof. I just don't see the point.
Is it from 1991? It can't be much more recent.
According to Wikipedia, there was a Vaillante car made to be used as a camera carrier at LeMans to obtain action footage for a film in which the car itself never appeared. Also according to Wikipedia, Vaillante was also involved in a driving school project. Might the puzzle car have been constructed to obtain film footage for some sort of driving simulator (the automotive related product) to be used for driver training (another automotive related product), or other educational, purposes?
Quote from: hermanoto on August 19, 2013, 03:24:33 PM
Bulgari
Not Bulgari
Quote from: Allemano on August 19, 2013, 03:26:01 PM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on August 19, 2013, 03:18:26 PM
Not a cartoon...remember, there's a company selling products behind this car...and this car was not built for promotional purposes...the 'unreal' car was a mock-up....
:scratch: I have to admit the more I follow this thread the more I get confused...
I'll explain now.
Quote from: Allemano on August 19, 2013, 03:54:15 PM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on August 18, 2013, 07:16:37 AM
They sell products...not a car rental or an industry association.
Kind of immaterial products = services?
Why immaterial?
Quote from: 75america on August 19, 2013, 03:56:56 PM
Quote from: Allemano on August 19, 2013, 03:26:01 PM
:scratch: I have to admit the more I follow this thread the more I get confused...
And on top of that, I wonder the whole time why this car is equipped with a sunroof. I just don't see the point.
Is it from 1991? It can't be much more recent.
Why not? It's more recent.
Quote from: 4popoid on August 19, 2013, 04:01:35 PM
According to Wikipedia, there was a Vaillante car made to be used as a camera carrier at LeMans to obtain action footage for a film in which the car itself never appeared. Also according to Wikipedia, Vaillante was also involved in a driving school project. Might the puzzle car have been constructed to obtain film footage for some sort of driving simulator (the automotive related product) to be used for driver training (another automotive related product), or other educational, purposes?
Nope.
Now I'll explain.
A company, selling products (not totally disconnected to the automotive field but it's not the core business) promoted his products also with a fictional car.
Then, given the reaction of the pubblic, decided to build a real version of it (wasn't the same for Vaillante or Turbot? A fictional car made real?).
You are looking at the real version of a car used in commercials.
Now, if you read back all I wrote, you'll see that I was desperately pointing in this direction all the time!
Car insurances or cleaning products?
1992?
Quote from: 75america on August 19, 2013, 04:42:46 PM
Car insurances or cleaning products?
1992?
Cleaning products.
Later than '92.
Is this company still in business?
Yes.
MA-Fra?
Not that...
Maguire?
Atas?
No & no...
Industrial cleaning machines
Quote from: hermanoto on August 20, 2013, 04:58:11 AM
Industrial cleaning machines
No, different lines of products and among these there are cleaning products.
sonax
Not Sonax.
Italian Company, core business is not cleaning products.
Arexons?
Not Arexons.
Tavola Spa?
Not Tavola...I must confess I've heard of Arexons and Ma-Fra, but the others are new!
This brand is quite known in Italy, I don't know in the rest of the world.
Ecochem
Not Ecochem.
Rhütten?
Not that...it's quite popular in italy, also (and mostly) for other products.
Macota?
Not Macota.
I don't know outside Italy, but in my country this brand is very, very popular.
Let's ask for the main focus of this company... Chemical products?
Yes, also.
tools?
Not tools.
Kimicar?
paint (colors)?
Not Kimicar.
They produce Paints.
It's not easy to help with clues because our italian members will immediately link the maker to that product (one in particular) that is so famous that this brand is the 1st to came to mind when you name it...like Coke for a Cola or Webasto for roofs etc.
I'll bet everything that they all have seen those ads and will remember that car...as I said this company is quite big and their commercials were continous!
Quote from: Paul Jaray on August 30, 2013, 11:47:51 AM
Not Kimicar.
They produce Paints.
Err... Does that mean Kimicar produce paints or that the company behind the puzzle car produces paints? :scratch:
Sorry, the puzzle's company produces paints. (I don't know kimicar ;D).
But paint is still not their main field?
It's a consistent part of it (and quite known for that too) but the core product (the one they advertise endlessly) is another.
glue?
ICR Sprint?
Quote from: Allemano on August 30, 2013, 12:11:14 PM
glue?
...or better: it has many uses, one of that is to be adesive.
Nope.
This product is not for car but for DIY works.
Don't want to lose your time with all the possible products but...
this clue can be dangerous: you should use it to seal.
Saratoga?
Exactly!
Now, don't tell me you do not remember Saratoga's commercials...and yes, there was a car too ;D.
Now the missing part may be hard... who knows the model name?
A little help here:
it's called Saratoga XXXXXX XXX
The last 3 letters came from the Audi part... ;)
If the car is as recent as 1994, the Audi part might have been RS2?
Not RS2 and not an Audi exclusive... ;)
100?
Not 100 or just a number.
GTE?
Not GTE.
TDI?
Not TDI.
Much easier...it can be found in several other cars, but you found it here because of the Audi mechanicals...and it's not just a number... ;)
4wd?
Simple as that.
Saratoga xxxxxx 4wd.
Saratoga Quattro 4WD
Not that and not that easy.
6 letters.
Saratoga Milano Gti ?
We already estabilished that is Saratoga and 4WD.
The missing word is not Milano and (as far as I know) it's never been used before for a car.
The missing name is actually the name of a totally different object, used in a specific field.
You can try to find it in this way, just ask and I'll point you in the right direction.
what is the right direction :) :)?
Seriously, is it used in theaters?
Not theaters.
Let's say we had to do with this 'field' each time we dedicate to our beloved hobby...
Saratoga puzzle 4wd?
Not puzzle.
It's about technology...
Saratoga Engine 4wd?
is it about computers?
Not engine.
pnegyesi got my clue right...it's a name used in the Computer area.
No software.
hardware?
Yes.
chip?
Mouse?
Remember, 6 letters and (as far as I know) never uesed before for a car.
Floppy?
Memory?
yeah, I couldn't decide between Floppy and Memory :)
Can the missing word be "Lucida"?
Not Floppy-Memory-Lucida.
Big hint: usually it's not inside the case\monitor\keypad\mouse\printer\fax,etc...
Button? :D
Router?
Screen?
Tablet?
Not Tablet.
I said twice that is not inside any device for one reason...
server?
Not that.
You can find it in the same box when you buy an informatic device.
Cables?
Manual?
Quote from: pnegyesi on October 18, 2013, 04:06:13 AM
Cables?
Yes!
Now you just have to find a 6-letter cable to finish it.
Is it locked?
Free for all, it's just a pure guessing game now.
serial?
Not serial, but a kind of cable it is.
Plenum?
Power?
No, it's not six letters...
patch?
socket?
Visual?
Quote from: Wendax on October 18, 2013, 07:35:27 AM
Plenum?
Quote from: Hiawatha on October 18, 2013, 07:46:49 AM
Power?
No, it's not six letters...
Quote from: Otto Puzzell on October 18, 2013, 08:25:40 AM
patch?
Quote from: targhediferro on October 18, 2013, 09:03:27 AM
socket?
Quote from: Bill Murray on October 18, 2013, 09:12:44 AM
Visual?
No
Coaxial?
Serial?
VGAUSB
No x 3.
If we can take a few steps backward here and try to enjoy the journey..............
I think I have 6 hours of research into the last word of this puzzle, sorry, maybe 2 hours for that word and 4 hours of basic research into whatever I could find about the Firm Saratoga.
I have found so far, 4 different print advertisements from the 1992/1993 period for primarily automotive wax type products.
Each advertisement features a futuristic automobile but it is not the puzzle automobile. I also found hundreds of advertisements for other products from this company that did not mention any automobile.
Using some fairly exotic reference words/terms on Google.it, I did find some videos of probably current Saratoga advertisements.
I must say, that their method of advertising a silicon sealing agent for your bathroom shower tiles is titillating to say the least.
Rather like a Las Vegas stripper show. I am not complaining or passing judgement, they are clever advertising videos, but have little to do with sealing leaks in your bathroom shower.
So, Kudos to Saratoga for their advertisements, but I still cannot solve the problem of this one "fantasy" advertising auto that was then built as a further "fantasy" prototype auto. On the other hand, I have seen a face of Italian advertising that I would have never seen before had I not been a member of this Forum.
One never ceases to learn something here.
Bill
I remeber 2 different cars for they ads, a very futuristic one and another one.
The puzzle car should be the 'roadable' version of the latter one but it's totally different.
I tried to find those advertisements too but I did not find they back.
I'd like to see them again and if you can, I'll appreciate the link via PM.
About the other ads, well, our commercials are not that trivial and Saratoga ones were quite known because they were pushing the limit.
The female beauty is the engine of commercials all over the world but in Saratoga's ones the connection between the products and the girl(s), the setting and also some allusions are quite offensive because they are absolutely uncalled for.
you should see one of the last ones to understand it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIrnJzCkfJU
I won't call it a face of Italian advertising but a poor way to arouse ....attention ;D.
You won't find the answer there and I found only a website talking about this car, but it was real and I have a full article about.
This may not work, if so NSFW.
http://video.repubblica.it/spettacoli-e-cultura/saratoga-il-silicone-nudo/49646/49146
Scarts?
Quote from: Bill Murray on October 18, 2013, 05:32:19 PM
...
I have found so far, 4 different print advertisements from the 1992/1993 period for primarily automotive wax type products.
Each advertisement features a futuristic automobile but it is not the puzzle automobile. I also found hundreds of advertisements for other products from this company that did not mention any automobile.
...
you can find their commercials on their website but there's not a single frame with a futuristic car.
I was asking about those futuristic cars you saw. They should be aluminium-coloured and sort of F40/Avus style.
Not Scarts
I just sent you a PM with the mentioned advertisement.
Bill
Thank you Bill:
that was the Audi Avus type (well actually it's just that...) but in some commercials (and printed ads) there were at least 2 original cars. I have a frame of 1 of them where you can see it's a sort of F40 and I remember there was another one more 'futuristic'. They were both featured in some commercials during the 90s alongside the almost naked girl, but unfortunately they seem to be vanished from the web.
The puzzle car was meant to be the real version of that mock-up they decide to build because the fake one got a lot of success...and for all of you who remember those ads, yes, there was a car too! ;D
...and this is the 2nd car from the TV commercials, the less futuristic one they tried to produce as the puzzle car:
Quote from: Paul Jaray on October 19, 2013, 08:15:58 AM
...and this is the 2nd car from the TV commercials, the less futuristic one they tried to produce as the puzzle car:
A car? Is there a car in this picture?
Quote from: Paul Jaray on August 31, 2013, 09:18:03 AM
Exactly!
Now, don't tell me you do not remember Saratoga's commercials...and yes, there was a car too ;D.
Now the missing part may be hard... who knows the model name?
Quote from: Paul Jaray on October 19, 2013, 08:04:00 AM
Thank you Bill:
that was the Audi Avus type (well actually it's just that...) but in some commercials (and printed ads) there were at least 2
(...)
...and for all of you who remember those ads, yes, there was a car too! ;D
Quote from: targhediferro on October 19, 2013, 09:43:59 AM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on October 19, 2013, 08:15:58 AM
...and this is the 2nd car from the TV commercials, the less futuristic one they tried to produce as the puzzle car:
A car? Is there a car in this picture?
Yes, there was a car too. ;D
Back to the puzzle (pun intended!), if I google that name, there are pages and pages of that cable, and that cable only.
The same cable can be named also in a slightly longer way.
Charge?. Short for charger cable.
Bill
Not charge.
It's a kind of cable, not defined by its use.
Otto was the closest so far.
switch?
Analog?
No x2
Amico, I am running out of ideas and band width trying to save types of cables for computers.
I will go back to the basics.
Copper?
Not copper and not co-axial.
Saratoga Twinax 4WD?
How very interesting, Gerd:.....................
As this is a "no lock" free for all at this point, I googled your latest, "Saratoga Twinax 4WD" and got three hits on a Bulgarian website that had exactly that terminology.
Unfortunately, the website is, or seems to be, no longer functional.
In any case, this is the only "cable" reference out of perhaps a hundred that I have tried that seems to be valid as a possibility for the name of this phantom vehicle.
I hope you have the correct answer.
Bill
Quote from: Wendax on October 19, 2013, 05:12:31 PM
Saratoga Twinax 4WD?
Bingo!
That's the full name of it.
That Bulgarian website is the only place where you can find a single line about it.
Now Autopuzzles has got a pic of it ;)
Point for you, Wendax!
The original puzzle image has disappeared. Does an image of this car still exist, other than the cropped side view?