I'm heading towards my 1000th puzzle, not counting the group puzzles. So I thought it would be time for something special again. The following started as a kind of a ,,Nearly Mint" puzzle, but it felt as if some complexity was missing. After some time of thinking how I can torture you just so much that you will like the pain I came up with the idea to take you to an AutoPuzzles hare and hounds paper chase. You will start here:
In the following you will find 31 pictures of vehicles in a non-perfect state. Some of them will be easy to identify, some others rather not. But this alone won't bring you any point. Additional to the pictures there are 31 hints, not in chronological order, but mixed up, too. Beginning at the start picture shown above, you have to find the right hint that leads to the next pictured vehicle in the chase. Only this combination will earn you a point. After it is found, the same procedure has to be applied to find the next combination, and so on. To prevent anybody from running too fast, there is a harsh restriction: the puzzler who solved a combination is excluded from guessing the next one. When this ,,next one" is solved, he might join in again.
This puzzle will already start at Pro level, so that all puzzlers can give it a try from the very beginning. I hope this puzzle will keep you busy for a while. ;D
Here are the pictures:
Pictures 11 - 20:
The final pictures:
These are the hints:
1: The names of this car and of the next one are the names of a son and his father.
2: The next car was built in the twin town of the city where this vehicle was built.
3: The place where this picture was taken sounds like the model name of the next car.
4: A dealer in this town sold all 52 cars that were built of the next car in the chain.
5: The manufacturer also built a vehicle that was based on the same car as the next vehicle.
6: This car's maker built another model that shared its model name with the next car.
7: This company's founder went to the same school as the famous photographer who took the picture of the next car.
8: These two cars shared their name and purpose, but were built on different continents.
9: In the town where this coachbuilder was located you can find the grave of a well-known musician who shares his name with the next car.
10: The next one in the chain shares the name, but is not a car.
11: These two cars share their country of origin, but not the number of their wheels.
12: While this car kept its two-stroke engine, the next vehicle changed to a four-stroke engine during its production time.
13: This car's name was mostly an abbreviation for two cities involved in its existence. In one of those cities the driver of the next car was born.
14: Part of the coachbuilder's name is the town where the next car in the chain was built.
15: This vehicle was built in the same town as the base of the next car.
16: This car's brand name shares three letters with the town where the next car was built.
17: Another car of this company was build under licence by the next vehicle's maker.
18: This car's company also built trucks, just like the company of the next vehicle which came from the same town.
19: This car's builder also constructed completely different vehicles. A museum especially for those machines can be found in the town where the next vehicle in the chain was built.
20: Although they share parts of their name, the two coachbuilders of these two cars split apart.
21: This car was built in the same building as the next one, but by a different company.
22: In this town you have to enter metro line 13 and leave it at the 12th station. The station's name will give you the customers of the next car.
23: These two cars share their diesel engine supplier.
24: This car was built in a town whose twin town was the birthplace of the next car's engineer.
25: A badge-engineered version of this car was the namesake of another car that was built at the company where the next vehicle in the chain came from.
26: The name of the town where this car was built will give the marque of the next car, but it has to be translated first.
27: The engine maker of these two vehicles had a name derived from a constructed language.
28: The most famous ride of this vehicle started in the town where the next car was built.
29: The small town where this car was built was de facto capital for four years, while the big city where the next car was built remained the de jure capital.
30: The production of this vehicle was continued after the initial company was taken over. The new company was taken over later on by another company who shares its name with the next vehicle's builder.
31: This car's body material was used on a later version of the next car.
The solutions:
Start: Beverly Hills - Hint 4 - Rust 22: Ghia 450 SS (Tom_I)
- Hint 20 - Rust 27: Ferrari 195 Inter by Ghia-Aigle (Joao)
- Hint 14 - Rust 14: Cegga Ferrari (4popoid)
- Hint 26 - Rust 11: Adler Stromlinie (Tom_I)
- Hint 10 - Rust 17: Adler train (targhediferro)
- Hint 28 - Rust 7: Zündapp Janus (4popoid)
- Hint 1 - Rust 29: Saturn Sky (Tom_I)
- Hint 25 - Rust 4: Chausson AP52 (Ehhxekt)
- Hint 22 - Rust 6: Salamander (Tom_I)
- Hint 13 – Rust 9: Aston Martin DBR1/300 (Ehhxekt)
- Hint 3 - Rust 21: Citroen DS Leman Coupé by Chapron (Tom_I)
- Hint 9 – Rust 26: Ravel 9/12 HP Berline (Ehhxekt)
- Hint 24 - Rust 13: Zaschka Faltauto (4popoid)
- Hint 19 - Rust 23: Harmening Clubbus HKB (Ehhxekt)
- Hint 30 - Rust 3: Kögel K28 (Tom_I)
- Hint 15 - Rust 20: BMW 2800 ambulance by Willi Martini (Ehhxekt)
- Hint 21 - Rust 8: Veritas Meteor streamliner (4popoid)
- Hint 8 - Rust 15: Meteor Lakester (Ehhxekt)
- Hint 31 - Rust 1: Fuldamobil N (targhediferro)
- Hint 17 - Rust 28: NWF BS (4popoid)
- Hint 2 - Rust 31: Ligier JS1 (Ehhxekt)
- Hint 29 - Rust 5: Duriez truck based on Citroen C6 (Tom_I)
- Hint 5 - Rust 12: Theurer tractor on a Jeep base (Ehhxekt)
- Hint 23 - Rust 24: Erad Capucine Diesel (Tom_I)
- Hint 6 - Rust 16: DKW Junior (targhediferro)
- Hint 12 - Rust 10: Lloyd LT (Tom_I)
- Hint 16 - Rust 2: Berliet 944 (Ehhxekt)
- Hint 18 - Rust 30: Luc Court H4 (targhediferro)
- Hint 7 - Rust 25: Skoda 1101 (4popoid)
- Hint 11 - Rust 19: Krejbich (targhediferro)
- Hint 27 - Rust 18: Weise Kleinlieferwagen (4popoid)
That's insane!
I like it! ;D
Not a puzzle for me as I'm only here for a quick look day after day. I envy those who have the time to dive into this! :applause:
I'm astonished and excited, but I'm afraid I will do a great digging in the water, without getting the target. It will be amusing anyway.
There is no need to hurry, and I think it will get easier as soon as the first half is solved. ;)
Eh..uh...I can just add to all the comments above - this is something very interesting. The only thing is, on the very first picture... where is the car? :P
There is no car in the first picture, just remnants of another vehichle which should lead you to the geographical starting point. I took the freedom of incorporating some vehicles like tractors, buses, trucks, a train and a plane into this puzzle. ;D
Wow, what a fascinating puzzle. Let's see if I can make a start.
The first picture shows the wreckage of a prototype Hughes XF-11 reconnaissance aircraft intended for the US Air Force. It's identifiable by the registration number. Howard Hughes piloted it on a test flight from his factory's airfield at Culver City, California on 7 July 1946. Unfortunately the plane developed mechanical problems, and Hughes crash landed it in Beverly Hills, California.
This leads to Hint 4.
QuoteA dealer in this town sold all 52 cars that were built of the next car in the chain.
Ghia displayed their 450SS cabriolet, designed by Giorgetto Giugiaro, at the 1966 Turin Motor Show. The car used many Chrysler components, and 52 examples were built, all of which were apparently sold through a dealership in Beverly Hills, California.
Rust 22 is a sorry-looking example of a Ghia 450SS.
In fact, I was counting on you. ;)
That was a very good start, all correct. You have to pause for the next combination now. Who will carry on?
so we have to start from picture no31 and find the next clue, right?
No, the goal is to create one chain containing all pictures connected by the hints. So far, the chain is just:
Rust The Start (Beverly Hills) - Hint 4 - Rust 22 (Ghia 450 SS).
The next thing to do is to find a hint that connects the Ghia 450 SS with one of the remaining Rust pictures. For example the hint "The number in the model designation is twice as big as the one of the next car's." and a picture of an Audi Front 225, if those were in the lists. Then the next one had to find a hint connecting the Audi Front 225 with another picture, and so on. Is it clearer now?
Rust #27 and hint 14: Part of the coachbuilder's name is the town where the next car in the chain was built.
Connection - Ghia.
Ferrari 195 Inter s/n 0195 EL from 1952 made by Ghia-Aigle from Switzerland.
Is it ok?
Very nice puzle btw!
Partly correct. The car is right, the link is wrong.
If hint 14 were right, a part of the Ghia 450 SS' coachbuilder (=Ghia) would have been the town's name where the Ferrari was built. That doesn't work. Anyhow, locked for you for one more try.
Hint number #20?
Yes. Hint #20 is of course referring to Ghia and Ghia-Aigle. Ghia-Aigle started as a subsidiary to Ghia, but later on became independent.
Joao, you have to take a break here until the next connection is found, and Tom_I is back in the race.
A shot in the dark....Rust n. 17 looks like the "Eagle" steamer that burned out some years ago in Nürnberg museum, so, if we consider that a part of the name of last rust in chain, is "Aigle", that in french stands for Eagle, the hint number 10 could fit...the two rust share the name (actually part of the name), but the second is not a car. Quite mad, I know.
Some nice thoughts which might be helpful in the future. ;)
Rust 17 is the train you are thinking of, but its name is of course a German one.
But the next connection is not with Rust 17 and not using Hint 10.
For the next stage, we are starting with Rust 27, the Ferrari bodied by Ghia in Aigle, Switzerland.
I'll try Hint 26:
Quote26: The name of the town where this car was built will give the marque of the next car, but it has to be translated first.
'Aigle' translated from French into German is 'Adler', and I think Rust 11 is an Adler streamlined sports racing car from the 1930s.
Quote from: Tom_I on September 05, 2013, 05:22:52 AM
For the next stage, we are starting with Rust 27, the Ferrari bodied by Ghia in Aigle, Switzerland.
I'll try Hint 26:
Quote26: The name of the town where this car was built will give the marque of the next car, but it has to be translated first.
'Aigle' translated from French into German is 'Adler', and I think Rust 11 is an Adler streamlined sports racing car from the 1930s.
I see that it could be applied here as well, but it is not the next in the chain. Keep your guess in mind. Its time will come soon.
Rust 27 was bodied in Aigle, Switzerland.
Hint 15 says: This vehicle was built in the same town as the base of the next car.
Rust 14 is the Cegga Maserati which was built in Aigle, Switzerland.
So: Hint 15 and Rust 14 (the connection being Aigle, Switzerland).
The right car, although not correctly identified, because it is a Cegga, but not the Cegga Maserati.
The hint however is not the right one, but you have got the right idea.
Rust 27 was a Ferrari bodied Ghia- Aigle.
Hint 14 says: Part of the coachbuilder's name is the town where the next car in the chain was built.
Rust 14 is a Cegga built in Aigle, Switzerland.
So: Hint 14 and Rust 14.
That's correct. It is the Cegga Ferrari , by the way.
4popoid, you have to take a break here until the next connection is found, and Joao is back in the race.
So is this where Hint 26 comes in?
Quote26: The name of the town where this car was built will give the marque of the next car, but it has to be translated first.
Rust 14 is a Cegga made in Aigle, Switzerland. 'Aigle' translated from French to German gives 'Adler', and Rust 11 is an Adler streamlined sports racing car from the 1930s.
Supposing Tom_I is right, I guess the following hint should be number 10, and the rust n.17...same name, Adler (not Eagle as I told before), but not a car.
Quote from: Tom_I on September 06, 2013, 03:52:41 AM
So is this where Hint 26 comes in?
Quote26: The name of the town where this car was built will give the marque of the next car, but it has to be translated first.
Rust 14 is a Cegga made in Aigle, Switzerland. 'Aigle' translated from French to German gives 'Adler', and Rust 11 is an Adler streamlined sports racing car from the 1930s.
Yes, correct. You don't have to pause, because ...
Quote from: targhediferro on September 06, 2013, 10:15:55 AM
Supposing Tom_I is right, I guess the following hint should be number 10, and the rust n.17...same name, Adler (not Eagle as I told before), but not a car.
... targhediferro is right, too, and has to wait. 4popoid is back in.
Rust 17 is the Adler (Eagle) locomotive which made its famous first ride in 1835 from Nuremberg to Fürth.
Hint 28 says: The most famous ride of this vehicle started in the town where the next car was built.
Rust 7 is a Zündapp Janus built in Nuremberg.
So: Hint 28 and Rust 7.
Quote from: 4popoid on September 06, 2013, 12:55:28 PM
Rust 17 is the Adler (Eagle) locomotive which made its famous first ride in 1835 from Nuremberg to Fürth.
Hint 28 says: The most famous ride of this vehicle started in the town where the next car was built.
Rust 7 is a Zündapp Janus built in Nuremberg.
So: Hint 28 and Rust 7.
Correct again. Now it's your term to pause and targhediferro can participate again.
Not absolutely sure about this, but from Rust 7, the Zündapp Janus, I'll try Hint 19:
Quote19: This car's builder also constructed completely different vehicles. A museum especially for those machines can be found in the town where the next vehicle in the chain was built.
Zündapp also made motorcycles, mopeds, scooters and lawnmowers. There is a Zündapp Museum in Sigmaringen in Baden-Württemberg.
Veritas sports and racing cars were made at Hausen am Andelsbach, just outside Sigmaringen. Rust 8 is Paul Pietsch's Veritas streamlined special pictured after a serious crash on the Nordkurve of the AVUS racetrack in Berlin in 1952.
So Rust 7, Hint 19, Rust 8, the link being Sigmaringen.
Sorry, that is not the right one.
I'm hardly expert in Greek and roman mithology, but I guess that Janus and Goliath could be relatives, and perhaps son and father, so I try to say that hint n.1 takes to Rust n.18 that, if I'm not wrong is a Goliath truck.
Rust 18 is neither a Goliath nor the next one in the chain, but follow your guess about the hint.
Sorry, a typing mistake; I supposed that rust number 10 (not 18) is a Goliath...perhaps its anyway wrong.
Rust 10 isn't a Goliath, and the historical Goliath isn't a relative of any god, so we are looking for something/someone else.
Ok, stop fishing...it should be one of the several rusts I haven't been yet able to identify.
We seem to have ground to a halt here. From what has been said, would we be right in thinking that Hint 1 (the names of two cars being the names of a son and his father) is the correct one to find the next link in the chain?
Yes, and I have to admit that the father-son-relationship is debatable. Some say yes, some no. I took my information from the German edition of a well known site. The English edition won't help you.
Thank you. Now it appears a little bit clearer. So we start from Rust 7, the Zündapp Janus, and go via Hint 1:
Quote1: The names of this car and of the next one are the names of a son and his father.
In English versions of Roman mythology, Janus is considered to be one of the oldest of the gods, and generally no parents are identified. Some mythologies say he was the son of Apollo, but that needs you to accept a crossover between Greek and Roman mythology, and it didn't seem to help with the puzzle.
I did wonder if planets and moons were referred to as fathers and sons in some languages, as Janus is a moon of Saturn, but I couldn't find any evidence for this.
But now the German Wikipedia entry for Janus says that legends describe him as a child of Saturn and Entoria, but the origin of this is uncertain.
So if we accept that Janus was the son of Saturn, that leads to Rust 29, a Saturn Sky roadster produced by General Motors between 2006 and 2009.
Absolutely correct! The other contestants including 4popoid might take over.
Just my luck, I was ineligible for the last round, which I knew, but, now that I am eligible, I'm not sure if I can identify the Rust, although I'm pretty sure of the Hint. Oh well, here goes:
Rust 29 was correctly identified as a Saturn Sky.
Hint 25 says: A badge-engineered version of this car was the namesake of another car that was built at the company where the next vehicle in the chain came from. The Opel GT, built by Opel, was a badge engineered version of the Saturn Sky.
I think Rust 16 might be an Opel, possibly a 1960/1963 Opel Record A.
So: Hint 25 and Rust 16.
Right hint, wrong rust. You have to dig a little deeper, I'm afraid.
I thought that might be a bit too easy.
I am going to assume that I'm looking for an Opel brand vehicle, just not Rust 16. Since the hint says vehicle, not car, I'm going to try a bus.
How about Rust 28?
Rust 28 is neither an Opel nor the next vehicle in the chain. You better read Hint 25 again. ;)
Amazing puzzle!
Following hint 25, I suspect a French connection here. The namesake of the badge-engineered Sky must be Opel's first GT, the nice, Kadett-based coupe, introduced back in the late sixties. Its metal body was built abroad, by Chausson, a firm that operated as a prosperous bus manufacturer in the fifties – which leads us to Rust 4, a skeleton of one of their popular models. So how about Hint 25 – Rust 4: Chausson AP(H)52?
Nice sleuthing, absolutely correct.
Now it's your turn to take a break while the others have a try at the next connection.
Well, It's time for another shoot in the dark: The bus Chausson was built in Asniere-sur-Seine, a little town near Paris where you can enter metro line 13; so I guess the correct hint is number 22. According to a metro map I found on the net, the 12th station of line 13 (in both directions) is Avenue Clemenceau. So I'm forced to think that George Clemenceau is the customer of the next car. As He died in 1929, the only rust suitable for this customer shoud be the Luc Court number 30, even I haven't found any clues about the cars He used.
Quote from: targhediferro on September 12, 2013, 06:03:18 AM
Well, It's time for another shoot in the dark: The bus Chausson was built in Asniere-sur-Seine, a little town near Paris where you can enter metro line 13; so I guess the correct hint is number 22. According to a metro map I found on the net, the 12th station of line 13 (in both directions) is Avenue Clemenceau. So I'm forced to think that George Clemenceau is the customer of the next car. As He died in 1929, the only rust suitable for this customer shoud be the Luc Court number 30, even I haven't found any clues about the cars He used.
You found the right hint, but I was not exact enough when I formulated the hint. I meant that you have to leave 12 stations later, so it is not "Champs-Élysées – Clemenceau", but one station afterwards.
Now I am really confused: the 13th station in North direction is Miromesnil, in South direction is Invalides, but both Armandr de Miromensil (Death in 1796) and Napoleon (Death in 1821) never had a car.
Quote from: Wendax on September 03, 2013, 01:57:02 PM
22: In this town you have to enter metro line 13 and leave it at the 12th station. The station's name will give you the customers of the next car.
;)
Hint 22 & Rust 24?
Identify Rust 24 and you will find the answer to your question. ;)
Yes, identifying Rust 24 is the problem.
I think the Hint 22 metro station you are looking for is Invalides. If this is correct, the I think the Rust we are looking for is an invalid transporter.
I think Rust 24 might be an invalid transporter, but I haven't been able to determine that for sure (I'm traveling, and don't have any reference material with me), let alone which marque.
Hence, Hint 22 - Invalides station & Rust 24, an invalid transporter.
Your deduction is correct, but the invalid carriage we are looking for is not Rust 24.
Perhaps we could say that every sick man is invalid for a while, so the rust we are searching for may be n.20, an ambulance!
Nice idea, but we are looking for a real invalid carriage.
Like previously I can't provide an identity, but there is only one other Rust that appears to resemble an invalid carriage, So: Hint 22 & Rust 6.
That little bugger has made its appearance at AutoPuzzles before. :)
Is the identification I'm looking for the Russian SMZ S-3D, later - SeAZ S-3D?
No
Pilcar?
No
Quote from: Wendax on September 13, 2013, 02:19:15 AM
That little bugger has made its appearance at AutoPuzzles before. :)
It does help when you know where to look - still not that easy to find, though. ;)
So to recap, we start from Rust 4, the Chausson bus, built in the outskirts of Paris. Then it's Hint 22:
Quote22: In this town you have to enter metro line 13 and leave it at the 12th station. The station's name will give you the customers of the next car
The nearest metro station to the main Chausson factories is Asnières - Gennevilliers - Les Courtilles on Line 13. Ride for 12 stations and you arrive at Invalides, indicating that invalids or disabled people would be the customers of the next car.
That's Rust 6, a Salamander invalid car, based on a modified Reliant Kitten chassis, and powered by an 1100 cc Ford engine. This was commissioned by the Social Services Department of a British city (I won't say which ;) ) as a replacement for the Invacar vehicles. It was produced from 1981 to 1984, by which time specialist disabled vehicles had been made obsolete by the British "Motability" scheme, which aimed to provide standard production cars modified for use by disabled drivers.
A perfect answer!
There will be a time when it will be forbidden to post quizzes about cars from '80s.... :yuck:.... ;D
Per Tom_I, Rust 6 is a British Salamander.
Hint 11 says: These two cars share their country of origin, but not the number of their wheels.
Rust 18 looks like it might be a British Scammel Scarab.
So: Hint 11 & Rust 18.
That is three times a no, sorry.
Let's see if this works:
Hint 13 – Rust 9: Aston Martin DBR1/300
Quote13: This car's name was mostly an abbreviation for two cities involved in its existence. In one of those cities the driver of the next car was born.
Rust 9 is a crashed Aston Martin DBR1; it was British racing driver Brian Naylor who drove the car when the accident happened. His home town is Salford, one of the two cities (the other was Manchester) whose Social Services, as Tom_I wrote in his last post, commissioned a replacement for the Invacar vehicles, and whose partnership the name '
Sala
Mander' hints at.
Exactly!
What intrigues me about this puzzle is that there can seem to be more than one plausible link at any stage. I have already gone completely wrong with one, and history may be about to repeat itself. :-\
So from Rust 9, I can see two ways forward, one of which I am more in favour of, but which I can't resolve, and one which I can resolve, but which I am less sure of.
But I'll try Hint 3:
Quote3: The place where this picture was taken sounds like the model name of the next car.
In Rust 9 the Aston Martin DBR 1/300 was crashed at the notorious Maison Blanche kink in the race circuit at Le Mans. Rust 21 is a Citroën DS "Le Léman" Coupé by Chapron.
A French speaker might not agree about the "sounds like" bit, but "Le Mans" sounds quite like "Léman", so I'll offer that as the link, with less than total confidence.
QuoteA French speaker might not agree about the "sounds like" bit, but "Le Mans" sounds quite like "Léman", so I'll offer that as the link, with less than total confidence.
Not a native French speaker, I feel confident enough about it to make a suggestion for the next step: :)
Hint 9 – Rust 26: Ravel 9/12 HP Berline
Quote9: In the town where this coachbuilder was located you can find the grave of a well-known musician who shares his name with the next car.
Maurice Ravel, the great French composer is buried in the cemetery of Levallois-Perret, a suburb of Paris where Henri Chapron established his coachbuilding company after the Great War.
By the way, the connection doesn't end here. In the last years of his life, Ravel kept an apartment at 16 rue Chevallier (today rue Louis-Rouquier), only a few blocks away from the Chapron workshop.
Assuming Tom_I and Ehhxekt are correct, I offer the next step.
Hint 24 says: 'This car was built in a town whose twin town was the birthplace of the next car's engineer." The Ravel was built in Besançon, France. A twin town of Besançon is Freiburg im Breisgau, Germany. Freiburg im Breisgau is the birthplace of engineer, designer and inventor Engelbert Zaschka.
Rust 13 is the folding three wheeled car invented by Engelbert Zaschka in 1929.
Hence, the next step is: Hint 24 and Rust 13.
Quote from: Tom_I on September 15, 2013, 05:52:35 PM
What intrigues me about this puzzle is that there can seem to be more than one plausible link at any stage. I have already gone completely wrong with one, and history may be about to repeat itself. :-\
That's part of the challenge. ;)
Quote from: Tom_I on September 15, 2013, 05:52:35 PM
So from Rust 9, I can see two ways forward, one of which I am more in favour of, but which I can't resolve, and one which I can resolve, but which I am less sure of.
But I'll try Hint 3:
Quote3: The place where this picture was taken sounds like the model name of the next car.
In Rust 9 the Aston Martin DBR 1/300 was crashed at the notorious Maison Blanche kink in the race circuit at Le Mans. Rust 21 is a Citroën DS "Le Léman" Coupé by Chapron.
A French speaker might not agree about the "sounds like" bit, but "Le Mans" sounds quite like "Léman", so I'll offer that as the link, with less than total confidence.
I see that your French is as bad as mine, so you could find the right hint as well as the right car. Well done!
Quote from: Ehhxekt on September 15, 2013, 06:47:25 PM
QuoteA French speaker might not agree about the "sounds like" bit, but "Le Mans" sounds quite like "Léman", so I'll offer that as the link, with less than total confidence.
Not a native French speaker, I feel confident enough about it to make a suggestion for the next step: :)
Hint 9 – Rust 26: Ravel 9/12 HP Berline
Quote9: In the town where this coachbuilder was located you can find the grave of a well-known musician who shares his name with the next car.
Maurice Ravel, the great French composer is buried in the cemetery of Levallois-Perret, a suburb of Paris where Henri Chapron established his coachbuilding company after the Great War.
By the way, the connection doesn't end here. In the last years of his life, Ravel kept an apartment at 16 rue Chevallier (today rue Louis-Rouquier), only a few blocks away from the Chapron workshop.
Yes!
I'm very unlucky with this quiz....I got some hint, but not the car...I had in my pocket the answer Chapron-Ravel, but this morning I discovered that 3 right answers arrived in few minutes. Now I'm again in the darkness. :'(
Cheer up, with every solved step this puzzle gets easier.
Let's try to make a hole in the water. Engelbert Zaschka was involved in several airplane projects; now we have almost a hundred aeronautic museums around the world, but the only hint coming to my mind is number 19. Is it a right path?
I think it is... ;)
Hint 19 - Rust 23: Harmening Clubbus HKB
Quote19: This car's builder also constructed completely different vehicles. A museum especially for those machines can be found in the town where the next vehicle in the chain was built.
A man of inventions, Engelbert Zaschka was also a pioneering figure in helicopter technology; he experimented with 'rotating airplanes' as early as the late twenties. So I suppose the next link in the chain might be the small Saxonian town of Bückeburg, well known for its nice
Hubschraubermuseum, and also the city where the coachbuilding firm named Hermann Harmening built a small number of well-shaped luxury coaches in the mid-fifties.
I earned half point!
Quote from: Ehhxekt on September 16, 2013, 05:42:47 AM
I think it is... ;)
Hint 19 - Rust 23: Harmening Clubbus HKB
Quote19: This car's builder also constructed completely different vehicles. A museum especially for those machines can be found in the town where the next vehicle in the chain was built.
A man of inventions, Engelbert Zaschka was also a pioneering figure in helicopter technology; he experimented with 'rotating airplanes' as early as the late twenties. So I suppose the next link in the chain might be the small Saxonian town of Bückeburg, well known for its nice Hubschraubermuseum, and also the city where the coachbuilding firm named Hermann Harmening built a small number of well-shaped luxury coaches in the mid-fifties.
You've got it.
Bad luck, targhediferro.
Let me try again....hint 23 and rust 28; Do Harmening Bus and NWF bus use the same diesel engine?
As far as I recall they had different engines, Henschel resp. Ford Hercules or Deutz. It is not the right hint anyway. :(
I think the next one is Hint 30:
Quote30: The production of this vehicle was continued after the initial company was taken over. The new company was taken over later on by another company who shares its name with the next vehicle's builder.
Hermann Harmering was taken over by Fahrzeugfabrik Kannenberg (FAKA) in 1958, and that was in turn taken over by the Kögel Trailer company in 1972.
Rust 3 is a Kögel tractor, but made by a different manufacturer.
That was a hard one I think. Well done. The tractor is a Kögel K28, just for the record.
Traktorenwerke Kurt Kögel operated in Munich, so I guess the next car might be Rust 20. Via Hint 15, it seems to fit the bill:
QuoteThis vehicle (Kögel tractor) was built in the same town (Munich) as the base (BMW) of the next car
– a unique ambulance conversion of the E3 2800 sedan, made by the famous German racing car builder, Willi Martini.
Very good!
I'm pretty sure the next Rust is Rust 8, and the connection is Willi Martini, but I'm not sure which Hint is the connecting one.
Rust 8 is the 1952 wreck of Paul Pietsch at Avus in the Veritas Avus streamliner. The Veritas was built by Ernst Loof at Nürburgring, and Willi Martini was employed by Loof at the time. Later Martini built cars at Nürburgring, and, although I am not sure, I think that he might have been working in the same building where the Veritas had been built.
Hint 21 says: This car was built in the same building as the next one, but by a different company.
So I'll try: Hint 21 - Rust 8.
Right again. :)
Quote8: These two cars shared their name and purpose, but were built on different continents.
Among the vehicles still on offer, there is one that shares both the name and purpose with the Avus Meteor, and was built on a different continent. Christened Meteor Lakester, Alfred Churchill's curious, cigar-like hot-rod was created with the same idea in mind as the envelope-bodied Veritas: its constructor wanted to reach high speed on a certain track – in this case a dried salt bed of a lake in South California.
So my candidate for the next link would be Hint 8 - Rust 15: Meteor Lakester, 1939.
Nice sleuthing! :thumbsup:
This Meteor looks to be made with aluminium panels, so I guess that the hint number 31 links it to rust number 1, the prototype of Fuldamobil whose later version were made with aluminium panels too.
Yes, the Fuldamobil N is the oldest surviving Fuldamobil known and carries chassis number 8.
Hint 17 says: "Another car of this company was build under license by the next vehicle's maker."
Rust 28 is a NWF bus. NWF built some Fuldamobil vehicles under license.
So: Hint 17 - Rust 28
Yes, the NWF bus is probably a NWF BS or BK.
Quote2: The next car was built in the twin town of the city where this vehicle was built.
Nordwestdeutscher Fahrzeugbau was located in Wilhelmshaven, Lower Saxonia. A twin town of the city is Vichy in France, where in 1969 Guy Ligier founded his car manufacturing business. The mid-engined JS1 was their first model; as far as I know, only three were built. Rust 31 is one of them.
Correct!
I suppose that the correct hint is number 29; Ligier was made in Vichy that was the capital of France State at the time of german invasion. So, the only france rust built in Paris I can identify may be the number 18, when it should be a FAR truck.
Right hint, wrong rust
It the correct rust number 5?
Yes, but that won't earn you neither a lock nor a point, unless you can identify it.
Is it a Latil?
No
I had to change one of the remaining hints. :-[
Is number 5 a Panhard?
No, from a less known manufacturer
Nobody able to identify this Paris-built truck? ;)
The manufacturer appeared in one of my group puzzles before.
Am I correct in assuming that I am still ineligible for this round?
No, the last correct answer came from Ehhxekt, so feel free to participate again.
Thanks Gerd.
I believe that it has already been established that the next step is Hint 29 - Rust 5, with only the identity of Rust 5 to be determined, and Hint 29 indicates the vehicle was manufactured in Paris. I take this to mean that the manufacturer is actually located in Paris, and not in one of its surrounding suburbs, so the only truck manufacturer that I can find that fits this requirement, and has manufactured a similar COE vehicle, is Delahaye.
Therefore, I offer: Hint 29 - Rust 5, a truck by Delahaye.
It is not a Delahaye.
Although there are several possibilities in the Paris suburbs, if my conclusion, that Hint 29 indicates that the sought for manufacturer is located in Paris proper, is correct, then the only remaining possibility that I can find is Citroen. I had ruled this out previously due to the comment that the Panhard name was too well known, and I thought the Delahaye name, although well known, was not as usually associated with trucks as was Citroen.
Therefore: Hint 29 - Rust 5, a truck by Citroen.
It is not a Citroen, but (big hint!) there are some Citroen parts in this one.
I think I've found it at long last!
From Rust 31, the Ligier JS1, via Hint 29:
Quote29: The small town where this car was built was de facto capital for four years, while the big city where the next car was built remained the de jure capital.
Vichy, where the Ligier was made, was de facto capital of Vichy France from 1940 to 1944, while Paris remained the de jure capital. The next vehicle is Rust 5, a small van or truck made with a range of different bodies by Automobiles Duriez of Avenue Emile-Zola, Paris.
That is correct. This Duriez truck was converted from a Citroen C6 passenger car. It looks like this when restored:
Automobiles Duriez also used Willys Jeep and Ford GPW military vehicles as donors for their trucks and vans. Follow Hint 5
QuoteThe manufacturer also built a vehicle that was based on the same car as the next vehicle
and we get to Rust 12, a WW2 Jeep that was converted to a tractor sometime in the fifties, by a firm named Theurer.
Well, I thought this one to be a very tough one, but this one went fast. Right you are.
Although I haven't been able to determine the next vehicle, I think the next hint should be Hint 27. Is this correct?
No
I think the next hint is 23:
Quote23: These two cars share their diesel engine supplier.
Rust 12, the Jeep converted to a tractor, had its original engine swapped for a single-cylinder Farymann diesel unit of 940 cc.
So next in the chain should be Rust 24, an Erad Capucine (CE4, I think, but I find Erad model numbers very confusing). There were several engine options for this, but one was a single-cylinder Farymann diesel of 290 cc, pumping out 5.4 PS. With top speed limited to 45 Km/h, this model qualified as a 'voiture sans permis', which in France and one or two other countries could be used on the road without a driving licence.
Correct. The pictured Erad Capucine has a Farymann diesel engine as well. I'm not sure about the model number myself, could be a CE3.
I remember about a Erad Junior, if I am right the hint number 6 could fit with rust number 16 a Dkw Junior.
Sounds good.
And how about Hint 12 for the next one?
Quote12: While this car kept its two-stroke engine, the next vehicle changed to a four-stroke engine during its production time.
The DKW Junior was always produced with a two-stroke engine, but Rust 10 started out as the Lloyd LT500 with a two-stroke engine, but later in production became the LT600 with a four-stroke engine.
I'm sure you are right...I had this ready since the beginning, but of course it happened when I wasn't allowed to answer! I love this game !!! ::)
Quote from: Tom_I on September 24, 2013, 07:52:03 AM
And how about Hint 12 for the next one?
Quote12: While this car kept its two-stroke engine, the next vehicle changed to a four-stroke engine during its production time.
The DKW Junior was always produced with a two-stroke engine, but Rust 10 started out as the Lloyd LT500 with a two-stroke engine, but later in production became the LT600 with a four-stroke engine.
Correct!
I think Rust 18 might be the next one. Hint 11 says:
QuoteThese two cars share their country of origin, but not the number of their wheels.
The little contraption has one wheel less than the Lloyd and was made in Germany: a
Kleinlieferwagen manufactured by the firm Weise & Co. of Berlin, in 1936.
Nice idea, but it is not what I had in mind for the next step.
Rust 10 was a Lloyd LT500
Hint 16 says: "This car's brand name shares three letters with the town where the next car was built."
Rust 30 is a Luc-Court H4 truck made in Lyon, France.
Lloyd>Loy>Lyo>Lyon.
So: Hint 16 and Rust 30.
Could it be Rust 2, then? By Hint 16
QuoteThis car's brand name shares three letters with the town where the next car was built
we are directed to Lyon, France. One of the car manufacturers in the town was Berliet, and the old woodie is a model 944 with a 'Break Canadienne' style body (and some modifications on the front).
Yes, it could also be Rust 2, but I think Wendax needs the Berliet for the next step.
Quote from: 4popoid on September 24, 2013, 12:55:17 PM
Rust 10 was a Lloyd LT500
Hint 16 says: "This car's brand name shares three letters with the town where the next car was built."
Rust 30 is a Luc-Court H4 truck made in Lyon, France.
Lloyd>Loy>Lyo>Lyon.
So: Hint 16 and Rust 30.
Right hint, and nicely worked out, but ...
Quote from: Ehhxekt on September 24, 2013, 12:55:52 PM
Could it be Rust 2, then? By Hint 16
QuoteThis car's brand name shares three letters with the town where the next car was built
we are directed to Lyon, France. One of the car manufacturers in the town was Berliet, and the old woodie is a model 944 with a 'Break Canadienne' style body (and some modifications on the front).
... Ehhxekt picked the right one of the two possible choices.
Bad luck, 4popoid. Maybe you 've got better luck with one of the final steps. :)
I guess next one is hint 18 who carries to rust 30. Berliet and Luc Court built truck in Lyon.
OK, I got it backwards. I think targhediferro is correct so:
Rust 30 is a Luc Court H4.
Hint 7 says: "This company's founder went to the same school as the famous photographer who took the picture of the next car."
Luc Court attended École Centrale de Lyon, as did the photographer Marc Riboud who took the picture of Rust 25.
So: Hint 7 & Rust 25
Quote from: targhediferro on September 24, 2013, 01:08:04 PM
I guess next one is hint 18 who carries to rust 30. Berliet and Luc Court built truck in Lyon.
Correct.
Quote from: 4popoid on September 24, 2013, 01:35:32 PM
OK, I got it backwards. I think targhediferro is correct so:
Rust 30 is a Luc Court H4.
Hint 7 says: "This company's founder went to the same school as the famous photographer who took the picture of the next car."
Luc Court attended École Centrale de Lyon, as did the photographer Marc Riboud who took the picture of Rust 25.
So: Hint 7 & Rust 25
Yes, please add the name of the pictured car.
I suppose the rust 25 is a Skoda, so I guess next hint may be number 11 and show us to rust 19, that if I'm not wrong should be a Krejbich three wheeler from Czechoslovakia.
I'm not positive, but I think Rust 25 is a Skoda 440 from about 1957.
I think targhediferro is correct again, so only Hint 27 and Rust 18 remain.
Hint 27 says: "The engine maker of these two vehicles had a name derived from a constructed language."
Per Ehhxekt, Rust 18 is a "a Kleinlieferwagen manufactured by the firm Weise & Co. of Berlin, in 1936." I can't locate any information on this vehicle, but the Krejbich used a JLO engine, so I'm betting the Kleinlieferwagen did as well.
I'm not sure how JLO engines relate to a constructed language, but JLO is sometimes spelled ILO, and I think there is an engineered language called ido, so perhaps there is a relationship.
Quote from: 4popoid on September 24, 2013, 05:37:26 PM
I'm not positive, but I think Rust 25 is a Skoda 440 from about 1957.
No, not a 440, it is older.
Quote from: targhediferro on September 24, 2013, 04:30:04 PM
I suppose the rust 25 is a Skoda, so I guess next hint may be number 11 and show us to rust 19, that if I'm not wrong should be a Krejbich three wheeler from Czechoslovakia.
Correct.
Quote from: 4popoid on September 24, 2013, 06:09:55 PM
I think targhediferro is correct again, so only Hint 27 and Rust 18 remain.
Hint 27 says: "The engine maker of these two vehicles had a name derived from a constructed language."
Per Ehhxekt, Rust 18 is a "a Kleinlieferwagen manufactured by the firm Weise & Co. of Berlin, in 1936." I can't locate any information on this vehicle, but the Krejbich used a JLO engine, so I'm betting the Kleinlieferwagen did as well.
I'm not sure how JLO engines relate to a constructed language, but JLO is sometimes spelled ILO, and I think there is an engineered language called ido, so perhaps there is a relationship.
Ilo means
tool in Esperanto. The Weise and the Krejbich both used Ilo engines.
Now we are just waiting for the correct Skoda model. Then I will award the points.
Below some more pictures of the Weise Express:
Is the Skoda identification open to all, or is it locked?
Sorry, I forgot to mention. I think it would be fair to let 4popoid have one more guess. If that one is wrong, I will open it up.
Rust 25 = Škoda 1101/1102 "Tudor"?
Yes. This answer puts an end to this puzzle. I think it won't be the last one that follows this scheme, but creating such a puzzle surely will take some time. Thank you for your interest and participation. Following the coming-to-light of the solutions was as fascinating as the creation of this puzzle.
The points total:
Ehhxekt: 9 points
Tom_I: 9 points
4popoid: 7 points
targhediferro: 5 points
Joao: 1 point
Congratulations!
Thanks Gerd! Great puzzle.
One suggestion for the next one. Would it be possible to identify one category, such as Rust in this puzzle, differently than the other category, such as Hint in this puzzle? I found using numbers for both categories quite confusing. I realize using letters for one category can be difficult, especially when there are more than 26 items, but I certainly find totally separate identification systems much less confusing in the heat of the chase.
Again, thanks for a great puzzle!
Thanks for the puzzle! It was great fun trying to find my way through this brilliantly conceived labyrinth, and the deeper I got into it, the more I was impressed... quite a piece of architecture!
:bow:
I too want to thank you Gerd for this very interesting puzzle; I learned a lot of things about the cars that formed this hard challenge, and it has been very amusing. My congratulation to the other puzzlers who identified some vehicles I would never been able to.
Great puzzle! I've enjoyed watching others solve it and have learned plenty!
Yes, a really good puzzle. The restriction of locking a puzzler out for one stage after a correct identification was a great idea, and added another dimension to the puzzle. It added an element of strategy, if you had your eye on a particular stage. But then with a pretty evenly matched set of puzzlers taking part, somebody else could grab your answer before you could get to it.
Excellent stuff! It must have taken a lot of work to devise it, but I'm glad you did, and I really enjoyed it. :)