Nice two-tone colour scheme.
For one point, please respond and identify this car, its coachbuilder and the engineer behind it.
up
English?
No
Osterreich?
Not Austrian
French?
Non
German ?
Ja
Brennabor?
No
Hanomag or is it home-built ?
Not Hanomag, not home-built
Obscure or well known maker?
Borgward?
Opel?
Quote from: targhediferro on February 21, 2013, 05:23:37 PM
Obscure or well known maker?
Well known, but not mainly for their cars. They only built one car in larger numbers, but also some prototypes of which the puzzle car is one.
Hansa?
Weinsberg ??
Not Hansa, not Weinsberg
N.A.G.?
No
Is perhaps a Ford?
Quote from: targhediferro on February 24, 2013, 07:30:45 AM
Is perhaps a Ford?
No, remember:
Quote from: Wendax on February 22, 2013, 02:27:28 AM
Quote from: targhediferro on February 21, 2013, 05:23:37 PM
Obscure or well known maker?
Well known, but not mainly for their cars. They only built one car in larger numbers, but also some prototypes of which the puzzle car is one.
My guess dipended by the fact I don't remember other firms that built in the '30s, fitting with your description.
Anyway I try with Rohr.
No
Perhaps the company is better known for its motorcycles ?
Quote from: mekubb on February 25, 2013, 01:35:06 PM
Perhaps the company is better known for its motorcycles ?
Yes
Zündapp ?
How about an NSU-Fiat 508 Balilla of around 1934ish to start.
Quote from: mekubb on February 25, 2013, 03:15:53 PM
Zündapp ?
Yes, locked for you to add the missing parts.
I did find another pic from the puzzle car on the Zündapp-forum but couldn't access it. I believe the puzzle car is from around 1935 and the engineer was Ferdinand Porsche. May be it's Type 12 Zündapp ?
Gentlemen, with total respect, I think we may have the wrong photo here.
There was, indeed, a Porsche/Zundapp prototype made in 1932.
One can find, as I did and as mekubb did, dozens of photos of this car. It bears no resemblance to the quiz question photo.
Based on my own research, I am pretty well convinced that the photo we are trying to identify is an NSU-Fiat.
I may be totally wrong, and I have not been able to find a similar photo of the quiz question photo but all of the ID points lead in that direction.
Just some thoughts.
I have no more ideas about this car; zundapp seems to have built only the Porsche project in the '30, and this is not that streamline beginner, while Nsu-Fiats were very similar to Fiats, so, unless this is a coachbuilt one, I don't think we have a Nsu-Fiat. Then, we have been told that the maker, known for other products, built a well known car only, together with some projects...and this doesn't fit with the makers you proposed.
It's a real puzzle.
Quote from: mekubb on February 25, 2013, 07:03:04 PM
I did find another pic from the puzzle car on the Zündapp-forum but couldn't access it. I believe the puzzle car is from around 1935 and the engineer was Ferdinand Porsche. May be it's Type 12 Zündapp ?
It is not the Zündapp Typ 12 by Ferdinand Porsche, cf. http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=13965.0 and http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=10790.0).
Unlocked and open for all experts again.
Quote from: Bill Murray on February 25, 2013, 07:38:02 PM
Gentlemen, with total respect, I think we may have the wrong photo here.
There was, indeed, a Porsche/Zundapp prototype made in 1932.
One can find, as I did and as mekubb did, dozens of photos of this car. It bears no resemblance to the quiz question photo.
Based on my own research, I am pretty well convinced that the photo we are trying to identify is an NSU-Fiat.
I may be totally wrong, and I have not been able to find a similar photo of the quiz question photo but all of the ID points lead in that direction.
Just some thoughts.
As said before, it is not the Typ 12 and not by Ferdinand Porsche, but it definitely is a Zündapp prototype, not a NSU-Fiat.
Quote from: targhediferro on February 26, 2013, 02:18:59 AM
I have no more ideas about this car; zundapp seems to have built only the Porsche project in the '30, and this is not that streamline beginner, while Nsu-Fiats were very similar to Fiats, so, unless this is a coachbuilt one, I don't think we have a Nsu-Fiat. Then, we have been told that the maker, known for other products, built a well known car only, together with some projects...and this doesn't fit with the makers you proposed.
It's a real puzzle.
Zündapp built several prototypes in the 1930s, the Porsche one being the most famous, but we had another one here before: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=17529.0
The well-known Zündapp I was referring to wasn't built in the 1930s, but from 1957 to 1958: the Janus (http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=21907.0). ;)
Ok, now it's clear...I understood that the well known car was contemporary with this prototype.
The Pros will put this one to rest.
Coachwork by Reutter and the engineer responsible is perhaps Fritz Neumeyer?
Neither Reutter nor Neumeyer
1933 Zündapp 400 prototype engineered by Richard Küchen designed by his brother Xaver. The book I have mentiones a water-cooled 4-cyl 800cc boxer engine, though.
For the coachbuilder I don't have a clue... Could it be Wendler?
Quote from: Allemano on March 08, 2013, 01:41:18 AM
1933 Zündapp 400 prototype engineered by Richard Küchen designed by his brother Xaver. The book I have mentiones a water-cooled 4-cyl 800cc boxer engine, though.
For the coachbuilder I don't have a clue... Could it be Wendler?
All correct so far, except for the coachbuilder. This two-seater was based upon the Zündapp van which had a 400 cc two-cylinder boxer engine. If your book (which I think is the same I have) mentions a 800 cc unit, it could be a Küchen engine.
Locked for you to find the coachbuilder.
The design of the curved vents alongside the bonnet resembles those Hebmüller built on various cars...
Not by Hebmüller. It was done by a less known coachbuilder which is maily recognized for its post-WW2 bus coachwork.
Oje... :(
Can it be found online?
Yes, and I am pretty sure you have been at that site before. ;)
I'm afraid I'm stuck... ??? Leave it to the others please!
Unlocked and open for all again
Drogmoller of Heilbronn?
Not Drogmöller, but from Heilbronn!
Drauz? but that's probably too well known.....
Not Drauz
The only other coachbuilder I have for Heilbronn is Schebera.....?
Not that one either
Scholch?
No
Weinsberg?
No
Hi Gerd:
I owe you a public, personal apology for this quiz and I am doing so now on this post.
Not to write a book, but often I have a go at a puzzle and if I am not making progress I sort of leave it and see how it develops. With other puzzles, I think I am on the right track and I go after it like a dog with a new bone. Such was the case with this car.
I have spent maybe six hours on this quiz, using not only my reference library here at the house but spending also hours on the internet using every matrix combination of words/names/dates/places etc, I could think of. Google.us/Google.de/Google.at/Google.fr etc. etc.
After visiting every Zündapp site I could find in all of this and finding absolutely nothing, I became convinced that it was what I said a few days ago, an NSU, as I had found numerous vehicles that came very close to the quiz photo. I then "called you out" as we say here and suggested you may have posted the wrong photo.
That turns out to be totally incorrect on my part and I apologize for my remarks.
I will be more careful in the future.
Bill
Errare humanum est. :)
Cremer & Thiemonds?
No
Zündapp small car prototype with coachwork by Wankmiller, 1933.
Quote from: Paul Jaray on March 12, 2013, 05:56:46 PM
Zündapp small car prototype with coachwork by Wankmiller, 1933.
Yes, that's the one. Wankmiller is mainly known for its bus coachwork in the 1950s.
One more point for you.
Who built this and when? A point is waiting for you!
Experts?
Austin based?
no
European car? If yes, from Italy?
European, not from Italy
From the UK?
no
coachbuilder Uhlik early to mid 1930's
nothing to do with Uhlik
French?
no
Could it be based on a Dixi?
not based on a Dixi
German car?
yes
I am reluctant to move this to Professionals, because this is a repost - though I'd like to contest the original ID. So I am leaving this here for 1-2 more days
Defunct brand?
this is a one-off
There was no point in keeping this puzzle alive. According to Paul Schilperoord who wrote the book on Josef Ganz and who has most of the original photos from Motor-Kritik there was a picture where the name of the coachbuilder was clearly visible.
My only problem now is the original Motor Kritik article which alludes the design to Richard and Xaver Küchen. They designed motorcycles, including the K.
This car was supposedly built on the basis of a Zündapp "lieferwagen" (small transport vehicle). According to Paul, Prototyp Museum has the chassis - so I'll contact them. For now it is merged.
What a find :thumbsup: