Author Topic: Solved: Wendax 832 - Goliath L 600 (Read 1985 times)

Wendax · « **on:** March 09, 2013, 01:34:00 AM »

Directly from the Fenders & Shirts thread.

For one point, please respond and identify this van.

Wendax · « **Reply #1 on:** March 16, 2013, 02:44:24 AM »

targhediferro · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2013, 06:23:20 AM »

BMW connection?

Bill Murray · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2013, 06:53:12 AM »

Hi Gerd and Fabrizio:

I thought BMW also and spent way too much time on that marque.

My thinking now is that it is a Zündapp 3/4 tonn lieferwagen.
I am away from my notes, but I believe about 600 were built in, I think, 1934/5.

I found several photos of that marque and everything matches except for the ventilation louvres in the motor hood but I found several variations so that may not matter if I have the correct basic marque.

Bill

Wendax · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2013, 07:09:31 AM »

Sorry, guys! Neither BMW nor Zündapp, but not really obscure either.

Bill Murray · « **Reply #5 on:** March 16, 2013, 07:26:42 AM »

Second choice was a Tempo A600.
Bill

Wendax · « **Reply #6 on:** March 16, 2013, 07:43:18 AM »

Not a Tempo

targhediferro · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2013, 08:03:49 AM »

Heinschel?

Wendax · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2013, 01:19:39 PM »

Not a Henschel

Bill Murray · « **Reply #9 on:** March 16, 2013, 04:29:16 PM »

OK, Mis Amigos, before I go on with my part of this one, I have 5 possible German marques that I have found, each more obscure and rare than the one before it. But....none are a perfect match for the puzzle photo.

So, before I go further, is the vehicle even of German origin???

Bill

Wendax · « **Reply #10 on:** March 16, 2013, 04:49:14 PM »

It is German, but the manufacturer is not obscure, featured at AutoPuzzles with several vehicles.

targhediferro · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2013, 05:13:52 PM »

Wendax · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2013, 05:19:48 PM »

targhediferro · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2013, 06:49:35 PM »

Framo Piccolo 1935?

Wendax · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2013, 03:23:30 AM »

Not a Framo

targhediferro · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2013, 07:32:12 AM »

Hanomag?

Wendax · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2013, 08:55:55 AM »

targhediferro · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2013, 09:52:03 AM »

Goliath?

Wendax · « **Reply #18 on:** March 17, 2013, 10:20:55 AM »

Yes, locked for you to find the model.

targhediferro · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2013, 12:01:03 PM »

Well, I haven't found something that make me sure about what I'm saying: I found some pictures of similar little truck fronts, but all they are Framo Piccolo.
As we know it is a Goliath, and I suppose it is from middle '30, I dug about the Goliath production in those years: it seems that our firm porduced both a 4 wheels version of the Pioneer, and another van (from 1935) called Atlas...but this one looks like very different.
Then I found a leaf from the dutch importer of Goliath that show a quite similar truck and names it Goliath Rekord.
This last name is my guess; Goliath Rekord, 1934

Wendax · « **Reply #20 on:** March 17, 2013, 12:53:21 PM »

You are very close. The Rekord shared its engine with the Hansa 500, the kind of four-wheeled version of the Goliath Pionier. But there was another Goliath van with the same engine, but less payload. The difference to the Rekord was that the Rekord had its engine below the front seats, while its stablemate had the engine under the front hood. Our puzzle car is the slightly improved successor to this other van. Still locked for you.

targhediferro · « **Reply #21 on:** March 17, 2013, 01:37:04 PM »

It should be the model L500 (or L600), built in 1935-6.

Wendax · « **Reply #22 on:** March 17, 2013, 01:44:33 PM »

Yes, well found. It is a Goliath L 600. The L 500 had a louvered hood.

One more point for you.

Bill Murray · « **Reply #23 on:** March 17, 2013, 05:39:27 PM »

I am quite happy that this puzzle got solved, I spent many hours on it.

Not to be argumentative, but Goliath is perhaps a marque that could be described as "obscure" in the normal sense of production volumes and general awareness of common German makes of the era. My command of German is not good, but I think I can read that Goliath was a very small manufacturer that did not survive the "Great Depression" and more or less merged with Hansa LLoyd later there was a connection with Borgward.
There seems to have been rather a lot of "Badge Engineering" wherein chassis/engines/transmissions were shared between the three makers.

In any case, after having to join 3 new Enthusiast Clubs (Goliath), I finally came up with just one new photo of an L600 with the proper louvres.

Perhaps appropriate that it is a Beer truck, as I am now enjoying my third glass of fine California Wine in anticipation of my 73d birthday tomorrow as I type this.

Bill

Wendax · « **Reply #24 on:** March 17, 2013, 06:11:44 PM »

Thank you for this beautiful photo. You are right about Borgward's confusing brand strategy (if there was one). Carl F.W. Borgward's first vehicle was the Borgward Blitzkarren (http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=19496.0), built as an offspring in his radiator company Bremer Kühlerfabrik Borgward. Its successor was already a Goliath. The threewheeler Goliath vans were built until 1938, when they were succeeded by the Borgward FW 200 and 400. The fourwheeler Goliath vans were also built until 1938, but the larger ones changed their name to Hansa-Lloyd as soon as 1933, Hansa-Lloyd being the brand under which Borgward sold his trucks until 1938. The Goliath Pionier threewheeler car was accompagnied by the fourwheeler Hansa 400 which used the Goliath fourwheeler van chassis. Hansa was Borgward's car brand, but from 1939 on the cars were called Borgward, too. After WW2, Borgward had three brands: Lloyd for his microcar and microvan range as well as his electric trucks; Goliath for the vans and lower mid-range cars, but the brand name changed to Hansa in 1958; Borgward then used his own name for the cars mid-range and up as well as for his trucks, but Hansa was a Borgward model name until 1958. One has to add that the Lloyd Arabella was renamed Borgward Arabella in its last years, and that the last Hansa 1100 were renamed Borgward, too, but just for export. All together a bit confusing, isn't it?

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Author Topic: Solved: Wendax 832 - Goliath L 600 (Read 1985 times)