Easy Rookie point, or not?
For one point, please respond and identify this car.
up
Hillman Minx seems a little too obvious, isn't it?
Let's say that it is a good point to start looking. It is a Hillman, but it didn't go by the name of Minx.
I am probably going in the wrong direction, but can this be a Hillman Paykan as assembled in Iran?
Bill
Could it be Isuzu PH400 ?
Much better choice, mekubb.
The LHD threw me off but further looking reveals the Paykan was based on a later Hillman platform.
Bill
Not a Paykan and not an Isuzu. It was sold under the Hillman brand.
To correct myself, a closer look at the puzzle photo shows it is RHD, judging by how the windscreen wipers are parked.
For further clarification, was it actually sold as a Hillman "XXX" or sold by Hillman dealers/distributors under perhaps another name in the same family?
Bill
To clarify, it is LHD with the driver at the wheel, and it was sold as an Hillman "XXX".
From Wikipedia
QuoteThe New Zealand importer/assembler Todd Motors created the Humber 80 and Humber 90, badge-engineered models based respectively on the Minx and Super Minx, as a way to secure scarce additional import licences for CKD assembly kits.
So, is the correct answer a Humber 80 - or is it more obscure?
My first idea was Humber 80/90 but lhd confused me.. From what Wendax says the car is actually a Hillman but not a Minx
Well, botched the LHD/RHD part and I too am a bit confused. The base car is a Hillman Minx Series IIIC for sure and they were assembled in NZ as the Humber 80 and a later variant, the Series V in Australia as a Gazelle but still using the Hillman name.
But, as you say, neither country would have had a LHD variant.
I have now visited over 25 sites dealing with the history of the Hillman Minx and have come up with nothing but the above two and the Iranian and Japanese versions.
Good luck!!!
Bill
I am a bit of a Rootes aficionado (I own the only Singer Vogue estate ever imported into Italy), but I have to say I am baffled.
A very long shot.. Touring in Italy assembled the later Hillman Super Minx. Is there any connection?
Yes, I saw that too but it is still called a "Hillman Minx" and I understand that it did not go under the name of "Minx" according to Wendax.
Bill
I go where no man dares to go......
Maybe I can get a point for identifying the Lucas Beamsetter machine??
That at least seems to give us a UK venue for the photo. Or, maybe Canada, now another place to look.
Bill
Nice discussion, folks. 8)
It has nothing to do with Australia, New Zealand or Italy. The picture was not taken in the UK or Canada.
Belgium?
No
Could it be South Africa? I think some Rootes cars were assembled or built there.
No. I'm quite sure we are not talking about a foreign assembly, but just of a local model with a different name.
Oh Snap!! And I thought I was going to con you into giving me a point for the "Prince of Darkness" identification.
And, yes, another good International effort, 5 countries plus the originating country participating.
BTW, I thought of SA too but that is a RHD country last time I looked.
Bill
Could it be Hillman Husky. I know the Husky was generally a sort of Minx estate but they may have used the name for a saloon somewhere.
No
I continue to go to the Dark Side.
Hillman Sceptre?
No
Hillman Gaylook?
Quote from: Bill Murray on August 05, 2013, 04:15:02 PM
Oh Snap!! And I thought I was going to con you into giving me a point for the "Prince of Darkness" identification.
Here in Argentina among the antique car enthusiasts there's a well known joke:
"Do you know why they drink warm beer in England?"
"Because the refrigerators are made by Lucas"
Funnily enough, in the last 40 years I've had two electrical components go wrong - a Bosch Alternator and a Motori Marelli lambda probe (which cost 4 hours in labour as the wiring loom was so tight that it had to be partially disconnected to gain enough slack to remove it)
Just to confirm:
The car was not made/ assembled by Isuzu, Paykan, Touring or anywhere else outside the UK
The photo was not taken in UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand or Belgium. But in another LHD country
So the picture shows a UK-built car having its headlamp alignment checked with a Lucas 'Beamsetter' in another country
The car was sold as a Hillman ***** - not Minx, not Sceptre, not Husky, not Gaylook
Is the name something simple like Hillman De Luxe
Your summary is correct, but it was not called Hillman De Luxe.
Sedan?
No, more poetic
One of the other Rootes-owned names, say Hillman Gazelle
I don't know of any other Rootes car wearÃng this name. Later on, two other car manufacturers used this name for some of their cars.
Are you commenting on the name "Gazelle" or the name you are still looking for??
Bill
I was commenting on the mystery name. I do know the Singer Gazelle.
As far as I can tell, it's just an ordinary Hillman Minx Series 111c, which is undergoing an MOT test. The little plastic aerofoil on the windscreen wiper suggests, perhaps, an enthusiast owner.
I really do think, though, that the image has been 'mirrored' and that the car is actually RHD.
No, the picture is not mirrored. On the unmodified picture you can read the (non-British) licence plate. The car might well be identical to a Hillman Minx Series IIIc, except for its name and nameplate.
Also, the lettering on the Beamsetter isn't reversed.
I think this is one of those where the answer is right in front of us. It's definitely a Hillman Minx Series III, just sold somewhere where they called it by another name. We've been through all of the "other names" we are familiar with, and apparently it's none of those. Time to dig deeper . . . good job Wendax, this is a tough one!
Are we in USA?
I am not trying to be funny, but considering the Lucas Beamsetter, I doubt it as there were many American brands for this sort of test instrument.
The photo does remind me of the interior of a Swedish "Svenskbilprovning" site where I had to get my two American cars inspected when I moved to Sweden in 1974 but I can find nothing on a different name for that Minx in Sweden. And, of course, they probably used a Phillips light tester anyway.
Bill
I don't want to start another false chase, but I am now concentrating on the uniforms of the testers as a possible clue.
As earlier posted, it may just be too obvious but I am now hours into this thing looking at Google sites all over the LHD world and coming up with absolutely nothing. I am not quitting though but now I have to take the wife and live in sister in law shopping for the rest of the morning my time.
Bill
Quote from: Hiawatha on August 06, 2013, 09:18:14 AM
Are we in USA?
No
Quote from: Bill Murray on August 06, 2013, 09:30:04 AM
The photo does remind me of the interior of a Swedish "Svenskbilprovning" site where I had to get my two American cars inspected when I moved to Sweden in 1974 but I can find nothing on a different name for that Minx in Sweden. And, of course, they probably used a Phillips light tester anyway.
Not Sweden, but we are getting closer now.
Hillman Superminx ?
Could it be Denmark? For some reason, several British cars were renamed for the Danish market.
It is Europe, Holland?
Quote from: mekubb on August 06, 2013, 10:38:17 AM
Hillman Superminx ?
No
Quote from: D-type on August 06, 2013, 11:19:38 AM
Could it be Denmark? For some reason, several British cars were renamed for the Danish market.
Yes, it is!
Hillman Minx Sunbird
I found this brochure
Yes, it seems as if at the start it was intended to market it as the Hillman Minx Sunbird 1600, but eventually it turned out to become just the Hillman Sunbird. Well found, ropat53. Another point for you.
Well done, indeed..
Did you spot the spelling mistake in the advert ? SUMBEAM.
Quote from: nicanary on August 06, 2013, 02:54:17 PM
Did you spot the spelling mistake in the advert ? SUMBEAM.
I was just typing whilst I got a notification of your reply!
What I was going to ask was - Does any one know what it says about Sunbeam (or Sumbeam -
sic!)?
Quote from: Carnut on August 06, 2013, 02:56:23 PM
Quote from: nicanary on August 06, 2013, 02:54:17 PM
Did you spot the spelling mistake in the advert ? SUMBEAM.
I was just typing whilst I got a notification of your reply!
What I was going to ask was - Does any one know what it says about Sunbeam (or Sumbeam - sic!)?
Without knowing too much Danish, I'll have a try:
Already in 1922, K. Lee Guinness drove his Sunbeam to victory...
There is Sunbeam in Hillman Sunbird
A car with a famous background
The new Hillman Sunbird has been developed with the experience achieved by Sumbeam's ;) participation in international races.
Quote from: Wendax on August 06, 2013, 03:18:00 PM
Quote from: Carnut on August 06, 2013, 02:56:23 PM
Quote from: nicanary on August 06, 2013, 02:54:17 PM
Did you spot the spelling mistake in the advert ? SUMBEAM.
I was just typing whilst I got a notification of your reply!
What I was going to ask was - Does any one know what it says about Sunbeam (or Sumbeam - sic!)?
Without knowing too much Danish, I'll have a try:
Already in 1922, K. Lee Guinness drove his Sunbeam to victory...
There is Sunbeam in Hillman Sunbird
A car with a famous background
The new Hillman Sunbird has been developed with the experience achieved by Sumbeam's ;) participation in international races.
The writer had obviously not driven one. My dad had a succession of 50s/60s Hillmans as company cars and they were like a lot of family cars of the time - what I believe is known as "grey porridge". Not much input from success in motor sport, I'm afraid.
Well done indeed, Ropat:
As it happens, I had just returned from the earlier mentioned shopping trip and had just finished Norway (obviously no result) and was well started on Danmark when my email notice went off.
It was a little confusing as I had found Hillman Minx Sunbird but continued on as I thought the title should not include Minx in the name. I just had not gotten to that last step.
In any case, a most interesting and challenging puzzle and I like that there were so many participants from so many countries involved.
BTW, two questions now that the puzzle is solved.
Was the photo location the Danish equivalent of Svenskbilprovning or perhaps the Danish importer premises. And...........does anyone know how many Sunbirds were actually sold. Danmark is a pretty small automobile market, particularly so in that era so I suspect not many.
Well I found another Dansk brochure, of a series V and it's also called Minx. ???
Quote from: Bill Murray on August 06, 2013, 04:11:55 PM
Was the photo location the Danish equivalent of Svenskbilprovning or perhaps the Danish importer premises.
Yes, the Sunbird was photographed at a Danish automobile inspection station in Thisted.
Yes, Ropat, that is what I found plus one or two more.
Thanks, Wendax, it is nice to know that I had a lot of the puzzle details almost right even if I couldn't finally solve it.
Bill
Quote from: ropat53 on August 06, 2013, 04:17:27 PM
Well I found another Dansk brochure, of a series V and it's also called Minx. ???
The reason for this is probably simple. Hillman didn't design new brochures for the Sunbird which could have been used only in Denmark. So the Danish Hillman importer, British Motors A/S had to use the general Minx brochures where usually only the black printing plate had to be adapted to the market's language. Unfortunately the colour artwork included the Minx name. The black and white newspaper ad was made in Denmark and didn't show the Minx name. I have a copy of Populaer Mekanik, the Danish edition of Popular Mechanics, where the Hillman Sunbird is being introduced. It is described as being the result of the cooperation of Rootes and British Motors A/S. It was available as the Hillman Sunbird Family, sunbird Elegant and Sunbird Sport, the latter one with an Alexander tune up kit.
I'll attach the English brochure versions:
... and I just had a look at some photos I made of a Hillman Sunbird back in 1987. Where the Minx has the chrome-plated Minx lettering at the doors and the boot lid, it reads Sunbird.
I'm sure that picture that Wendax has posted captioned "Hillman Minx 1600 Sedan" shows a picture of the Mk V car, which was only available with a 1725 cc engine?!
Or maybe my memory is not what it used to be..
I agree with you, Carnut, unless there was a "base" model which still retained the 1600cc motor. I recall Rootes doing that to a previous model, using the old 1500 engine for the base, and the new 1600 for the de Luxe range.
BTW the link with Kenelm Lee Guinness has me curious. Why did they pick that for advertising in Denmark? He set a LSR at Brooklands in May 1922, and then the car was bought by Malcolm Campbell who took it to Fanoe in Denmark and set a new record in June 1923. So Sunbeam have a Danish connection, but it wasn't KLG who drove the car there. (Some bright SPARK thought it would be good to PLUG the occasion ! :lmao: )
Oh My God!
Quote from: Carnut on August 06, 2013, 06:45:26 PM
I'm sure that picture that Wendax has posted captioned "Hillman Minx 1600 Sedan" shows a picture of the Mk V car, which was only available with a 1725 cc engine?!
Or maybe my memory is not what it used to be..
The Series V and Series VI Minxes look almost identical, but the Series V had the 1592 cc engine, and the Series VI had the 1725 cc unit.
Externally the main difference is that Series V cars have overriders on the bumpers, while Series VI ones don't.
A Hillman Sunbird I photograhed back in 1987: