What do we have here and from when does it date ?
European car?
Yes
From Italy?
Alfa Romeo giulietta derived?
Not Giulietta but Alfa is part of the solution ;)
Alfa Romeo Conrero 1150 Le Mans sport stradale, 1960 (derived from giulietta SV)?
Quote from: targhediferro on February 16, 2013, 11:03:42 AM
Alfa Romeo Conrero 1150 Le Mans sport stradale, 1960 (derived from giulietta SV)?
Alfa Romeo is right, but there is another make involved as well. Not Conrero, not 1150, not Giulietta and not 1960
I found some news about an Alfa Romeo-Osca 2000, from 1959. At Vernasca Silver Flag 2009 that car was present and, even if the front seems to have been modified, is quite similar to quiz pictured car. Is it?
Quote from: targhediferro on February 16, 2013, 12:54:14 PM
I found some news about an Alfa Romeo-Osca 2000, from 1959. At Vernasca Silver Flag 2009 that car was present and, even if the front seems to have been modified, is quite similar to quiz pictured car. Is it?
You are on the right track. Both Alfa and Osca are involved in this car, but it is from a later date then 1959 and doesn't have a 2 litre engine as far as I know. Besides this car is known under (at least) 2 different names, I only need one. The Alfa-Osca from Vernasca Silver Flag 2009 is a Conrero according to the website, but there is no Conrero connection in the puzzle car. I'll lock it for you to find out more.
Is it the Osca-Alfa Romeo MT4 that belongs to Tony Bailey?
Quote from: targhediferro on February 16, 2013, 02:02:25 PM
Is it the Osca-Alfa Romeo MT4 that belongs to Tony Bailey?
Don't know if the car belongs to Bailey, not sure if the car even still exists. But Osca MT4 chassis is right
As you said it is smaller than 2 litres, and not giulietta derived, I suppose it has Giulia engine 1600 (1570).
Now, Osca MT4 chassis should be from 1953-55, but Alfa 1600 engine was produced only since 1962; so I guess this car has been built about 1963.
The quiz picture shows perhaps a Targa Florio edition.
Quote from: targhediferro on February 16, 2013, 04:18:33 PM
As you said it is smaller than 2 litres, and not giulietta derived, I suppose it has Giulia engine 1600 (1570).
Now, Osca MT4 chassis should be from 1953-55, but Alfa 1600 engine was produced only since 1962; so I guess this car has been built about 1963.
The quiz picture shows perhaps a Targa Florio edition.
Alfa Giulia 1600 engine is right, 1963 is close enough, it is 1962. A clue : Osca isn't part of then name of this Alfa. This isn't an easy one ... ;)
I searched everywhere...I found this car in a pair of sites, and perhaps a confirm that the car still exists, has a quite different body, and carries the plate SA-31296 (a plate I've seen on other cars yet!!).
I've got no sure information about the name; where I saw the car it's named Alfa Romeo MT4 1600 spider, but I suppose you're waiting for a different name. If so, please unlock and remember the work I did.
Sorry for my late reply. According to my (reliable) source this car is known under 3 different names, all start with Alfa + another name. To help you a bit, the Osca 1100 chassis is from 1950 and has no. 1112. The Giulia engine was enlarged till 1732 cc and the car had a weight of just 640 kg, so it must have been pretty fast. It participated a.o. in the Trofeo Franco Venturi in 1962 or 1964 (not quite clear).... May be this helps...
I will go on in digging...but in my archive, Osca MT4 #1112 is described as the Siluro Sport you can see in the picture below, sold for Bonhams in 2011, and also registered in Etceterini site.
Well, I'm a bit confused now. I wonder if my source is wrong. On the RacingSports Cars site you can see the racing history of #1112 and one of the (italian) drivers mentioned gave its name to my puzzle car ;) Helpful ?
I don't know if this helps or not..Tony Bailey's car was recently on the market described as: 1953 Osca MT4, chassis n. 1126, rebodied in 1958, rebuilt in 1961 with 1.5 Alfa engine.
The puzzle picture was probably not taken at the Targa Florio..The car behind appears to be number 242 or something like that and as far as I know there was not such a number allocated in the period concerned. Both the puzzle car and Tony Bailey's appear to have the same Campagnolo magnesium wheels typical of the racing Alfas of the early sixties.
I hope I have not muddled the waters even more!
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Quote from: Hiawatha on February 19, 2013, 02:11:30 PM
I don't know if this helps or not..Tony Bailey's car was recently on the market described as: 1953 Osca MT4, chassis n. 1126, rebodied in 1958, rebuilt in 1961 with 1.5 Alfa engine.
The puzzle picture was probably not taken at the Targa Florio..The car behind appears to be number 242 or something like that and as far as I know there was not such a number allocated in the period concerned. Both the puzzle car and Tony Bailey's appear to have the same Campagnolo magnesium wheels typical of the racing Alfas of the early sixties.
I hope I have not muddled the waters even more!
Number 242 is a single seater so it is definitely
not a Targa Florio entry. This almost confirms that the photo is not at the Targa.
Ermini-Alfa Romeo
No Ermini connection that I know off
Pro time
I think the name your looking for is Ignacio Bricchi.
The car is an Alfa Bricchi 1950 built on an OSCA chassis.
Bricchi is correct ! With 1950 you refer to the Osca chassis I assume, because the actual car is from 1962 as we have established earlier. is too early though, we established earlier. But Bricchi was the name I was looking for, Battibocca would have been correct as well. A point for you !
Quote from: mekubb on March 20, 2013, 02:44:45 PM
Bricchi is correct ! With 1950 you refer to the Osca chassis I assume, because the actual car is from 1962 as we have established earlier. is too early though, we established earlier. But Bricchi was the name I was looking for, Battibocca would have been correct as well. A point for you !
Thanks for the point!
Yes, I meant to add 1962 as the date of completion of the car in addition to the date of the OSCA chassis.....a rushed reply before others jumped in!
What's this, by whom - for 1 point?:
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Experts?
Italian?
Alfa Romeo base?
Quote from: frederick59 on March 01, 2016, 10:59:24 AM
Alfa Romeo base?
Yes, so I'll lock it for you until your next reply to see what you can find.
Sorry but I'll have to unlock this now.
As you indicated that it was italian, I was sure it was an Alfa, but that is the easy bit, the rest is much more difficult then I initialy thought. :-\
Quote from: Mogul on March 07, 2016, 05:56:01 AM
As you indicated that it was italian, I was sure it was an Alfa, but that is the easy bit, the rest is much more difficult then I initialy thought. :-\
Yes, there an awful lot of Alfa specials out there...!
Do Conrero have anything to do with this creation ?
Quote from: Lofotleif on March 07, 2016, 03:22:20 PM
Do Conrero have anything to do with this creation ?
No..
Open to Pro's with up to 400 points.
Giulietta based?
Giulia?
Open to all Pro's!
It looks quite similar to the "works" TZ1 prototype, but not enough for me to waste my guess!
Is this anything to do with Autodelta, or is it a purely private venture?
Quote from: nicanary on March 15, 2016, 05:05:39 AM
It looks quite similar to the "works" TZ1 prototype, but not enough for me to waste my guess!
Is this anything to do with Autodelta, or is it a purely private venture?
It's not the works TZ proto, no, and is nothing to do with Autodelta - it's a self-made one-off.
Puzzle photo taken at a hillclimb?
Quote from: nicanary on March 15, 2016, 06:16:44 AM
Puzzle photo taken at a hillclimb?
Not a hillclimb AFAIK.
Is it a Sicilian race?
Quote from: targhediferro on March 15, 2016, 08:09:26 AM
Is it a Sicilian race?
No, not in Sicily
I've had a bit of trouble finding details of the race the car is pictured participating in but I've found it now, and I believe it is actually a hillclimb (sorry nicanary!)
Coppa della Consuma?
Trieste-Opicina?
Neither nor...
Cesana - Sestrieres ?
Quote from: nicanary on March 15, 2016, 01:20:02 PM
Cesana - Sestrieres ?
No.
It's one I'd never heard of before so pretty obscure!
Quote from: Carnut on March 15, 2016, 04:22:06 PM
Quote from: nicanary on March 15, 2016, 01:20:02 PM
Cesana - Sestrieres ?
No.
It's one I'd never heard of before so pretty obscure!
So I take it it's not Trento Bondone?
Parma-Poggio di Berceto?
Neither of those..
Was the race held north of Bologna ?
Quote from: oko94 on March 21, 2016, 02:10:04 PM
Was the race held north of Bologna ?
No; it was a hillclimb of course..
Was the hillclimb held north of Rome ?
South of Florence ?
In Emilia-Romagna ?
Tuscany?
I'm trying to pinpoint the area of map I need to refer to! It's south of Bologna, sort of north of Florence, but not in the 2 regions I've mentioned, which doesn't leave much. A bit of Marche does come into the equation - is it there?
Quote from: nicanary on March 23, 2016, 08:36:32 AM
I'm trying to pinpoint the area of map I need to refer to! It's south of Bologna, sort of north of Florence, but not in the 2 regions I've mentioned, which doesn't leave much. A bit of Marche does come into the equation - is it there?
Yes it is!
I didn't exactly say it was north of Florence, just that it wasn't south of there!
Sarnano-Sasototto ?
Quote from: nicanary on March 23, 2016, 09:34:22 AM
Sarnano-Sasototto ?
No, that seems to be a skiing resort (is there a hillclimb there too?) but you're not far away at all..
Quote from: Carnut on March 23, 2016, 09:54:52 AM
Quote from: nicanary on March 23, 2016, 09:34:22 AM
Sarnano-Sasototto ?
No, that seems to be a skiing resort (is there a hillclimb there too?) but you're not far away at all..
There's a long-standing hillclimb held there- for some years now it's been named after "Lulu" Scarfiotti who was a hotshot up the slopes.
It's not Gubbio is it? That's actually in Perugia but near the border and maybe the start is in Le Marche.
Quote from: nicanary on March 23, 2016, 12:13:00 PM
It's not Gubbio is it? That's actually in Perugia but near the border and maybe the start is in Le Marche.
No, it's not Gubbio.
I know now ;D. I've been doing a lot of work on this - I though it might be a hillclimb which was still part of the Italian Championship, and I've had to trawl through lots of maps only to find what I was looking for whilst thinking it might be Ascoli.
It isn't Ascoli at all, but it's the IV Coppa Fagioli from 1964 (I had assumed the car was from 1962/63) held at Osimo. The driver is Francesco Battibocca from Aquila, and his Giulia-derived Special was fitted with engines from either Alfa or Osca (I think - that's my schoolboy translation).
Presumably the event is named after "the Abruzzi Robber" Luigi Fagioli, although I don't remember him driving in hillclimbs. Here's the front view which no doubt you were going to post after the puzzle had been solved!
Of course you're right! Well found.
As you say the car is shown competing in the Coppa Fagioli in 1964 (which was named after Luigi Fagioli, who apparently came from Osimo) on the Osimo Scalo-Osimo hill-climb course.
Another point for you.
Well done indeed..I was still leafing through my 1963 Auto Italiana magazines..
Now I know why it looked so familiar but it was new to me...this car was also known as Alfa Special and it was built by Ignazio Bricchi in Rome starting from Battibocca's Osca MT4.
It's featured in Curami's book and it's a repost too! ;)
Quote from: nicanary on March 23, 2016, 12:35:49 PM
I know now ;D. I've been doing a lot of work on this - I though it might be a hillclimb which was still part of the Italian Championship, and I've had to trawl through lots of maps only to find what I was looking for whilst thinking it might be Ascoli.
It isn't Ascoli at all, but it's the IV Coppa Fagioli from 1964 (I had assumed the car was from 1962/63) held at Osimo. The driver is Francesco Battibocca from Aquila, and his Giulia-derived Special was fitted with engines from either Alfa or Osca (I think - that's my schoolboy translation).
Presumably the event is named after "the Abruzzi Robber" Luigi Fagioli, although I don't remember him driving in hillclimbs. Here's the front view which no doubt you were going to post after the puzzle had been solved!
Where you can find this pics? I came from Osimo and I want to find other pics about the hillclimb Osimo Scalo - Osimo... yes Luigi Fagioli come from Osimo where the family had a brick factory!
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I am sorry but this site does not allow links to be posted as they will help members solve other puzzles. I would send you a PM with details if I could find the original source, but using Google does not provide any details! The puzzle is now 7 years old and my memory is weak - I probably used Google Images to look for Italian hillclimbs in the 1960s and then cross-referenced to results sites on Google Text.
The Alfetta 158 on the club badge is a nice idea but it's not a good likeness ! ;D
Thank for the answer! Now the street is like the image attached... but I am searching other pics!
Quote from: mekubb on February 14, 2013, 12:48:34 PM
What do we have here and from when does it date ?
Hello, have you got this pics in High resolution? Thank
No unfortunately only in low-res