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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2014 => Topic started by: woodinsight on October 01, 2010, 02:27:25 PM

Title: Solved - MJW #048 - Omega-Jaguar 1960
Post by: woodinsight on October 01, 2010, 02:27:25 PM
What car is this? What engine did it use and the year please for a point.
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: Aaron65 on October 03, 2010, 07:18:17 PM
1930s Frazer-Nash with BMW engine
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: woodinsight on October 04, 2010, 05:26:07 AM
I see why you guessed that but it's neither Frazer Nash or BMW
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: woodinsight on October 06, 2010, 03:28:33 PM
Moving up - not so difficult by an expert I think
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: woodinsight on October 10, 2010, 01:42:11 PM
On the front page - thanks!
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: Tackitt on October 10, 2010, 06:19:54 PM
The disc brakes and the amber parking lights definitely denote a recreation. Is/was it a kit?
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: woodinsight on October 10, 2010, 06:38:47 PM
Not a kit.
It is a one-off built sports car to a professional standard.
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: woodinsight on October 12, 2010, 03:20:25 AM
Moving up......
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: woodinsight on November 01, 2010, 04:15:59 AM
Time for a clue -
the car has been fitted with a larger engine since it was built.

Another photo -
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: DeAutogids on November 02, 2010, 02:22:03 PM
Is it the Cotura? Bristol engine?
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: metalshapes on November 02, 2010, 03:11:26 PM
It reminds me of the Special the English Wheel expert that works for Steve Moal built for himself.
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: woodinsight on November 02, 2010, 03:29:44 PM
Not Cotura and not a Bristol engine.
Clue - the present engine is larger than the Bristol.

Sorry but not the car that the English Wheel expert that works for Steve Moal built.
Clue - this car is over 50 years old.
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: woodinsight on November 08, 2010, 08:42:30 AM
Here's another, not very clear photo of the car when it had a smaller engine.
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: Aaron65 on November 08, 2010, 08:54:55 AM
Is it a Jaguar engined car?  I noticed the triple carbs...
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: woodinsight on November 08, 2010, 09:12:58 AM
It is currently fitted with a Jaguar engine
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: woodinsight on December 02, 2010, 06:06:21 PM
In the Greek numeric system this car has a value of 800
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: Aaron65 on December 02, 2010, 06:38:55 PM
Is it called the Omega?
Title: Re: MJW #048
Post by: woodinsight on December 03, 2010, 02:48:20 AM
Well done!
A well-earned point for you.

It is the Omega-Jaguar of 1960.

The car was built originally by John Wilkes in England.
Original engine was an MG ZB unit.
The car was raced extensively in club races and was eventually fitted with a Jaguar 3.4 litre engine.

Note: there was another Omega sports racer in England that may have been built in the 1940s.
It was based on a BMW 319 and had a 1911cc engine.
Not sure if there is a connection between the two - research is ongoing.....
Title: Barrett's #292
Post by: barrett on May 23, 2012, 09:25:31 AM
What was this car called, who built it, when, and what engine did it use? All that for a point
Title: Re: Barrett's #292
Post by: barrett on June 06, 2012, 01:00:16 PM
Maybe an expert knows?
Title: Re: Barrett's #292
Post by: barrett on June 21, 2012, 11:21:59 AM
Have at it, pros...
Title: Re: Barrett's #292
Post by: Wendax on June 21, 2012, 03:52:07 PM
Any Frazer-Nash connections?
Title: Re: Barrett's #292
Post by: barrett on June 21, 2012, 04:01:23 PM
None, as far as I know
Title: Re: Barrett's #292
Post by: woodinsight on June 22, 2012, 02:28:23 AM
Bristol-engined?
Title: Re: Barrett's #292
Post by: Allan L on June 22, 2012, 04:16:12 AM
Looks as if it might be MG (XPAG) engined.
Title: Re: Barrett's #292
Post by: barrett on June 22, 2012, 08:19:37 AM
MG engined indeed!

I'm not sure about what exact motor it is, I have a cc listed but I can't work out what engine it corresponds to - it seems larger than the average MG engine...
Title: Re: Barrett's #292
Post by: Allan L on June 22, 2012, 09:11:23 AM
Quote from: barrett on June 22, 2012, 08:19:37 AM
MG engined indeed!

I'm not sure about what exact motor it is, I have a cc listed but I can't work out what engine it corresponds to - it seems larger than the average MG engine...
Original XPAG as in MG TC, TD and TF and YA/YB was 1250 c.c.
XPEG was in the TF1500 only and was 1466 cc
Z Magnettes, MGA & MGB used the MBC B series which had the inlet and exhaust on the lefthand side.
Title: Re: Barrett's #292
Post by: barrett on June 22, 2012, 01:10:22 PM
Yep, that's what I thought! The information I have says the engine is over 2-litres which I couldn't believe... I'll put it down to a mis-print though.

In the interests of 'full disclosure' I'll reveal that this car only had an MG engine for a couple of years before it was replaced with a motor from another well-known British marque. The picture shows the car in its earliest incarnation though.
Title: Re: Barrett's #292
Post by: Allan L on June 22, 2012, 03:09:04 PM
Well there were also the pre-war SA and WA with six-cylinder push-rod engines of 2.3 and 2,6 litres respectively and the four-cylinder VA of around 1700 cc.
If it was one of those, the two exhaust pipes lead me to think six cylinder but who knows?
Title: Re: Barrett's #292
Post by: woodinsight on June 23, 2012, 03:11:15 AM
Is this car a 'one-off' or did the constructor build other cars?

Found it!
It's the Omega built by John Wilkes in 1960 and originally fitted with a MG ZB engine.
This was later replaced with a Jaguar 3.4 litre engine.

Two views below show the car with it's original MG engine and as the car is today with the Jaguar engine.
Title: Re: Barrett's #292
Post by: Otto Puzzell on June 23, 2012, 04:25:55 AM
I thought that looked familiar. It's fitting that woodinsight solved it.  ;)

http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=13994.0
Title: Re: Barrett's #292
Post by: barrett on June 23, 2012, 06:18:24 AM
oops! Of course I had no results for 'Omega' or 'John Wilkes'  >:(

A point for MJW for re-solving it, can somebody merge this now please
Title: Re: Solved - MJW #048 - Omega-Jaguar 1960
Post by: Otto Puzzell on June 23, 2012, 06:41:40 AM
Merged
Title: Solved NIC #130 - 1962 Omega Jaguar Special by John Wilks
Post by: nicanary on February 11, 2014, 12:47:13 PM
What is this car? When was it built, what is the engine, and who built it?
Title: Re: NIC #130
Post by: prototypefan on February 11, 2014, 03:44:22 PM
Omega Jaguar special
winter 1959
mg 2.6 then jab 3.4
john wilks
Title: Re: NIC #130
Post by: nicanary on February 11, 2014, 03:51:04 PM
Quote from: prototypefan on February 11, 2014, 03:44:22 PM
Omega Jaguar special
winter 1959
mg 2.6 then jab 3.4
john wilks

Wow, that was quick. Correct on all counts - built in the winter of 59/60 with MG power, then supercharged, then rebuilt in 61/62 with Jaguar power. Lovely piece of engineering, rather than the more common GRP lash-up.

(I was sure this had been a previous puzzle, but I couldn't find it)
Title: Re: NIC #130
Post by: Avalanche on February 11, 2014, 04:08:48 PM
Quote from: nicanary on February 11, 2014, 03:51:04 PM


Wow, that was quick.

Dat wall... ;)
Title: Re: NIC #130
Post by: nicanary on February 11, 2014, 04:49:50 PM
Quote from: Avalanche on February 11, 2014, 04:08:48 PM
Quote from: nicanary on February 11, 2014, 03:51:04 PM


Wow, that was quick.

Dat wall... ;)

But of course....how could I have been so stupid!  It's THAT wall...... ;D
Title: Re: Solved NIC #130 - 1962 Omega Jaguar Special by John Wilks
Post by: nicanary on April 28, 2014, 11:11:17 AM
I've just found this photo of the car competing in period.
Title: Re: Solved NIC #130 - 1962 Omega Jaguar Special by John Wilks
Post by: nicanary on September 09, 2014, 06:26:09 PM
And just reading the latest issue of Motor Sport magazine, I see that former Lotus GP driver and development engineer (he didn't want to be the development engineer but Colin Chapman gave him all the rubbish cars) John Miles once owned the car, and won a formula libre race at Debden with it in 1963. More trivia for our website.
Title: Re: Solved NIC #130 - 1962 Omega Jaguar Special by John Wilks
Post by: Carnut on August 10, 2015, 11:19:28 AM
Merged (again..).
Title: Re: Solved NIC #130 - 1962 Omega Jaguar Special by John Wilks
Post by: nicanary on August 10, 2015, 11:28:22 AM
Quote from: Carnut on August 10, 2015, 11:19:28 AM
Merged (again..).

This was one of my earlier puzzles. On the whole I've learnt from my mistakes, and these days a search by hyphen is usually undertaken. We can get a space probe to Mars, but we still can't solve this small problem  ;D.
Title: Re: Solved - MJW #048 - Omega-Jaguar 1960
Post by: Carnut on August 10, 2015, 11:37:38 AM
We're all guilty of it!
Title: Re: Solved - MJW #048 - Omega-Jaguar 1960
Post by: Allan L on August 10, 2015, 12:24:52 PM
Over the three incarnations we still have a difficulty with respect to its MG engine.
In the first Woodinsight identified it as an MG ZB engine.
In the second barrett was puzzled that the MG engine was larger than the average MG engine at over 2 litres, but again Woodinsight identified it as an MG ZB engine.
Most recently Prototypefan has found that it was a 2.6 litre.

As I contributed at the time, ZB used the BMC B series (4 cylinder, 1489 c.c.) and the prewar six-cylinder W type was 2561 c.c. (usually referred to as 2.6 litres).
My opinion is that re-engining a car that had a four cylinder engine with a six-cylinder Jaguar engine is pretty unlikely for both engine length and weight reasons whereas I'd guess Jaguar engine was similar in weight and length to the MG WA engine.
In the advertisement that is online at present they tell us 2.6 litres but the photos of the RF60 logbook show 2496 c.c. and an  engine number 826 (or perhaps 526). The WA engines seem to have numbers in the form QPJG-722 - perhaps Surrey CC just left out the QPJG- bit when they registered it but where the capacity came from who can say?
Title: Re: Solved - MJW #048 - Omega-Jaguar 1960
Post by: Reid Railton on March 01, 2017, 05:15:04 AM
Just found this forum and this discussion about the Omega which I owned from 1968 until 2010.  During that time I contacted the builder John Wilks and here is some of the info he gave me in letters (I couldn't decipher one or two words) about the engines and the rear suspension

The car was originally built with a 2.6 litre ZB MG engine and gearbox and run at a few hillclimbs and S.S. [standing start] quarters.  The car performed well but I felt it needed more ? and after about six months a Zoller compressor (off Goldie Gardner's 1.5 litre record breaker) was grafted on.  The only event that the car ran in in this form was the Brighton Speed Trials, which it didn't finish due to the blower drive disintegrating. Restored to a supercharged form it finished out the 1960 season until the crankshaft gently parted in the middle of a big end bearing on the way home from Stapleford.

During the 1961-62 winter the 3442 Jaguar ex MK7 was fitted with150S gearbox.  Originally 3x2 choke SUs were fitted, but there was very little reduction in speed by going to 3x1 choke and the difference in drivability was tremendous

At the same time the car was fitted with I.R.S. using a rigid diff mounting and inboard brakes and used the current Lotus pattern with the driveshaft as the top transverse link.  In this form it was used for one very frightening race at Brands.

1962 early the I.R.S. came off.  The car assumed its present form with 'A'  bracket location for a rigid rear axle.


Please post any other questions and I'll do my best to answer them

PS – the car looks much better without the spare wheel.  It was never there originally and we decided to fit it during restoration because we intended go touring. (The mounting for the spare is attached using the mounts for the trailing arms for the IRS, no additional alteration to the car from the original.)  But it didn't turn out that simple, the touring didn't happen.
Title: Re: Solved - MJW #048 - Omega-Jaguar 1960
Post by: Carnut on March 01, 2017, 06:17:43 AM
Fascinating.  Many thanks.
Hope you stay with us.
Title: Re: Solved - MJW #048 - Omega-Jaguar 1960
Post by: Allan L on March 01, 2017, 07:28:26 AM
Thanks for this Reid Railton but, at the risk of labouring the point MG ZB and 2.6 litres do not match. The ZB Magnette of the 1950s had the 4-cylinder BMC B Series engine of 1½ litres and the only 2.6 litre MG was the 6-cylinder WA of the late 1930s. Without any direct knowledge I'd say replacing a six cylinder MG WA engine with a six-cylinder Jaguar engine would be likely so the "ZB" bit must be a mistake.
The photo of it competing in period (posted April 2014) has a couple of the twin-choke SUs visible
Title: Re: Solved - MJW #048 - Omega-Jaguar 1960
Post by: Reid Railton on March 02, 2017, 03:06:25 PM
The MG engine info was from John Wilks' letter - looks like he was wrong in saying in saying ZB - I suspect you're corect in saying WA.
Here's a photo on the car being constructed showing the MG engine.
Title: Re: Solved - MJW #048 - Omega-Jaguar 1960
Post by: Reid Railton on March 02, 2017, 03:11:05 PM
Blimey - what do I need to do to post a reasonably sized photo
Title: Re: Solved - MJW #048 - Omega-Jaguar 1960
Post by: Carnut on March 02, 2017, 03:14:17 PM
Quote from: Reid Railton on March 02, 2017, 03:11:05 PM
Blimey - what do I need to do to post a reasonably sized photo

I've resized it for you!
Title: Re: Solved - MJW #048 - Omega-Jaguar 1960
Post by: Reid Railton on March 02, 2017, 03:15:53 PM
Thanks
Title: Re: Solved - MJW #048 - Omega-Jaguar 1960
Post by: Allan L on March 02, 2017, 06:40:25 PM
That's an interesting photo, Reid Railton, and it shows some significantly curved main tubes in the space frame, something I though only the Coopers did.
I hope that photo has been reversed as the WA has its inlet/exhaust on the offside. If, as I think, that's the steering column passing in front of the engine it is wrong for a r.h.d. car and evidence of reversal. If it can be shown not to be reversed we have another problem . . .
Title: Re: Solved - MJW #048 - Omega-Jaguar 1960
Post by: Wendax on March 03, 2017, 02:06:18 AM
Looking at the way the right guy's shirt is buttoned, I'd say the picture is reversed.

Alas this should be the correct view:
Title: Re: Solved - MJW #048 - Omega-Jaguar 1960
Post by: Reid Railton on March 05, 2017, 04:15:07 AM
Yes of course you're right - see attached photo (hope photo is not too big this time)