A bit of a mystery car to me.
I only have the base make and who the builder was.......
Can anyone expand this information?
One point on offer.
It seems taken from a late 60-beginning 70 Targa Florio
Quote from: fgsavoia on November 05, 2011, 10:18:08 AM
It seems taken from a late 60-beginning 70 Targa Florio
The era is correct but can you name the car?
Don't think there's a Targa Florio connection but I may be wrong.
We're certainly in France, at Monthléry
Quote from: M630 on November 06, 2011, 04:54:13 AM
We're certainly in France, at Monthléry
That sounds more likely..... :)
Elva-Porsche?
Quote from: moltogatto on November 09, 2011, 03:25:01 AM
Elva-Porsche?
Not that.....
Just to narrow it down a little - it is of dual nationality but not British or German
Really don't know, have a picture of a very similar car, racing in Monthlery, from one of the photographic albums published by French magazine "Echappement", IIRC they say it's a Swiss driven Elva-Porsche :)
Switzerland is where this car was built but no connection to Elva-Porsche as far as I'm aware.....
Borghi?
Cegga?
Quote from: moltogatto on November 10, 2011, 03:49:55 AM
Cegga?
Yes it is - the caption for the photo said it was a Gachnang-?
Cegga is of course the Gachnang brothers.
Locked for you to complete what make of car it was based on.
Ferrari?
Quote from: moltogatto on November 10, 2011, 12:45:09 PM
Ferrari?
Not Ferrari.
Still locked for you but only until your next reply
Thank you, but I'm not able to come up with a proper reply, so I think it's fair to leave it :)
Quote from: moltogatto on November 10, 2011, 04:36:31 PM
Thank you, but I'm not able to come up with a proper reply, so I think it's fair to leave it :)
Fair enough - unlocked again.
I'd still like to know more about this car when the name is solved.
Now in the Experts section
Earlier Cegga had used a Maserati engine in their Formula 1 chassis. But you say this was based on another car implying that it was not their own chassis with a a proprietary engine in their own chassis. That rules out Maserati. So was this a Porsche modified by the Gachnang brothers and re-branded as a Cegga?
Quote from: D-type on November 11, 2011, 06:55:03 PM
Earlier Cegga had used a Maserati engine in their Formula 1 chassis. But you say this was based on another car implying that it was not their own chassis with a a proprietary engine in their own chassis. That rules out Maserati. So was this a Porsche modified by the Gachnang brothers and re-branded as a Cegga?
Now you've posed some questions that I can't answer as I only have the photo caption to refer to.
If I tell you that this was captioned in a French magazine as a Gachnang-Maserati, do you have any more information that would support this? I'm aware of the Maserati-engined Formula 1 car.
I'll lock it for you if you have proof or a further explanation.
Don't worry about locking it - I have nothing to add.
Cegga stands for "Claude et George Gachang, Aigle" so a Cegga and a Gachang are effectively the same make. I was really saying that this car cannot be Maserati-based as I can't think of a Maserati model that they could base it on. Hence this would be their own chassis with a Maserati engine, ie a Maserati-engined car but not a Maserati-based one. (The reference to Porsche is simply because Porsche did produce cars that someone could modify so you could have a Porsche-based car - nothing more)
Quote from: D-type on November 12, 2011, 09:14:01 AM
Don't worry about locking it - I have nothing to add.
Cegga stands for "Claude et George Gachang, Aigle" so a Cegga and a Gachang are effectively the same make. I was really saying that this car cannot be Maserati-based as I can't think of a Maserati model that they could base it on. Hence this would be their own chassis with a Maserati engine, ie a Maserati-engined car but not a Maserati-based one. (The reference to Porsche is simply because Porsche did produce cars that someone could modify so you could have a Porsche-based car - nothing more)
Duncan I'm giving you the point as that's all the information I have.
I think it's a Maserati-engined Cegga dating from c.1967 as per the photo caption.
Perhaps someone will come up with the full story in time (it could be worth another point)
No point please - I haven't earned it as I simply made a couple of guesses. Moltogatto deserves the point for identifying the car as a Cegga.
I'm still looking into this one. I have found a photo of what appears to be this car identified as a 1967 Cegga-Ferrari rather than Cegga-Maserati but I am waiting for a login on another site to come through before I can confirm it.
Quote from: D-type on November 12, 2011, 11:37:07 AM
No point please - I haven't earned it as I simply made a couple of guesses. Moltogatto deserves the point for identifying the car as a Cegga.
I'm still looking into this one. I have found a photo of what appears to be this car identified as a 1967 Cegga-Ferrari rather than Cegga-Maserati but I am waiting for a login on another site to come through before I can confirm it.
I'll leave your point in place as you are busy working on the identification.
I've also given Moltogatto a point.
This is from a French forum probably well known for many autopuzzlers.
Quote from: faksta on November 12, 2011, 01:34:03 PM
This is from a French forum probably well known for many autopuzzlers.
Thanks faksta
This looks as though it could be the same car modified to coupe configuration.
I'll wait a bit before renaming it for any further information.....
This Gegga-Ferrari, with some slight differences to the lower front aerodynamics, looks quite like the puzzle car. Same cockpit shape, side air intakes, single wiper, etc. It seems this car was built on the chassis of a Cooper Monaco
this is the Cegga-Ferrari in its 1967 configuration:
They look quite different from the side view...
I'll try to find my original source again in order to check if more information is available.
There must be someone out there who knows this particular car...
Thanks for all your observations so far.
Comparing the picture of the "Cegga-Ferrari" that I found, it is the car that Paul Jaray posted not the puzzle car.
So, please subtract the undeserved point.
Quote from: D-type on November 13, 2011, 11:26:18 AM
Comparing the picture of the "Cegga-Ferrari" that I found, it is the car that Paul Jaray posted not the puzzle car.
So, please subtract the undeserved point.
Not wholly undeserved but I'll subtract it as you wish.....
Admins - it appears I may have jumped the gun by declaring this one (partly) solved :-[
Is it possible to move it back to the Professional section as I believe there is much more discussion to come before a true identification can be achieved?
Done!
Quote from: moltogatto on November 09, 2011, 06:11:19 AM
Really don't know, have a picture of a very similar car, racing in Monthlery, from one of the photographic albums published by French magazine "Echappement", IIRC they say it's a Swiss driven Elva-Porsche :)
Moltogatto kindly sent me a scan of this front cover - see below.
I can't believe this is an Elva-Porsche but I suppose it could have been rebodied.
My own source was an article by Georges Gachnang in "RetroCourse" where you will note the photo caption.
I find it all very confusing......
I've checked various sources for race results at Montlhery but can't tie it up with any of the listed entries.
I'm sure it will be solved eventually.
Norisring 1967 ( Gustav Schlups is the driver ):
Quote from: SACO on November 19, 2011, 09:41:51 AM
Norisring 1967 ( Gustav Schlup is the driver ):
It certainly looks like the same car...... :)
I'll leave this one open for a while until we can prove it one way or the other.
Thanks for the picture SACO.
Moving to the BH until someone comes up with a clear answer.....
I'm confused by these references to Gustav Schlup's Elva - as far as I am aware at that time he drove an Elva-Alfa MkVII converted to coupe form. Those photos claiming to be his car are nothing of the sort IMHO. This is the Elva, which is nothing like the puzzle car.
I have to apologise to all those taking part in this thread - yesterday was my birthday and my daughter had bought me a rather fine single-malt Irish whiskey, which got the better of me late in the evening, The photo I have depicted is indeed Gustav Schlup in his Elva Mk VII powered by an Alfa Romeo engine, but of course the year is 1966. The puzzle car dates from 1967, and in that year Herr Schlup campaigned an Elva Mk VII powered by a 2.0 litre Porsche flat 6 engine. I cannot imagine he bought another chassis, and assume therefore that he re-engined his '66 car.
Now here's the interesting thing - the "certain site" which contains many sports racing car records, confirms the number of that Elva at the Norisring as #26. I have also found the exact same photo as SACO, on a German-language site. It makes me wonder whether Schlup re-bodied the car at the same time as he re-engined it.
The Gachnang brothers had a strange way of making racing cars - they invariably assembled something from what they had lying around, and often used obsolete cars with a modernised body. The Ferrari-engined sports car I'm pretty sure used the motor from their old re-bodied Ferrari 250TR, stuck into an old Cooper Monaco frame. The Cegga-Maserati claim for the puzzle car quite rightly confused puzzler D-Type - that car started life as a 1.5-litre Formula 1 car, then was re-engined, still in single-seater form, with a 2.0-litre Maserati engine for European Hillclimb Championship events. Later still, it was re-engineered as a Group 6 racer, with a body on the lines of a Mclaren M6/8, and still exists to this day in that form.
I can't prove anything, but I'm sure in my mind that the puzzle photo was incorrectly captioned by the magazine. That is not a Cegga, but Herr Schlup's Elva-Porsche MkVII from 1967 and 1968. From 1969 he raced a Porsche 911.
I've just found a reference to this car on a French site - it is mentioned in Janos Wimpffen's book on Elva cars as an Elva MkVII converted by Schlup to run a Porsche 906 engine - the windscreen apparently comes from a 906, and it certainly looks the same.
Nicanary, I think you've now reached the correct solution to this 'mystery'.
It just proves that you can't believe everything you read in books, magazines or on the Internet.
There are still a large number of unsolved puzzles on this site but I'm sure they'll be 'put to bed' given time....... ;)
Well done and another point for you and I'm going to award a point to SACO for providing photographic evidence.