What is this?
1 point for you!
British?
Not British.
European marque?
Yes!
From a country east of Germany (including Austria)?
Go South. ;)
OK, how about Italy?
:thumbsup:
Pre WWI (1914)?
Knowing the car is Italian, and assuming that it is 1914, or prior, I'm going to try a long shot. The puzzle car strongly resembles a Fiat Zero, but, since this is AutoPuzzles, I think that would be a bit too easy. I'm going to try a car that was supposed to be very similar to a Fiat Zero (I don't have a picture), and say the puzzle car might be a: Feroldi Tipo Unico from about 1912.
Wolsit?
Quote from: 4popoid on April 03, 2014, 06:22:55 PM
Pre WWI (1914)?
Knowing the car is Italian, and assuming that it is 1914, or prior, I'm going to try a long shot. The puzzle car strongly resembles a Fiat Zero, but, since this is AutoPuzzles, I think that would be a bit too easy. I'm going to try a car that was supposed to be very similar to a Fiat Zero (I don't have a picture), and say the puzzle car might be a: Feroldi Tipo Unico from about 1912.
Not a Feroldi.
Quote from: Craig Gillingham on April 03, 2014, 10:07:23 PM
Wolsit?
And not Wolsit.
This drawing cames from an ad, where is reported the maker, the model and the city were it was built/imported.
I can't find any other reference to this maker.
De Vecchi?
Not De Vecchi.
This one is very, very obscure.
Cantono?
Not that.
FLAG?
Not Flag.
1912 Adem?
Not Adem.
1912 Solavo from Turin?
Not Solavo.
I have been thinking very early teens, but perhaps earlier. How about a 1906 Alberti from Florence?
Standard FAS?
Not Alberti or Standard FAS, but the model is indeed called Standard X h.p.
1907 Orie by Sta Italiana Automobili Lentz of Milan?
Not that...
Quote from: targhediferro on April 04, 2014, 06:48:13 PM
Standard FAS?
I checked my source and probably you may be on the right path...it's not an ad by FAS but the company of the puzzle car was active from 1913 to 1915...
Locked for targhediferro's next reply.
I found nothing more: perhaps "Fabbrica Automobili Standard" continued the production after 1912 with the logo Standard, but I've no other clue, so if it's wrong, please, unlock.
My source reports that probably this was the former FAS Standard built under this new name.
Locked for your next reply ;)
I found a source according who, after 1912, the FAS production was carried on by Ansaldi. Is this the name you're searching for?
Not Ansaldi...
No clue, please unlock.
ok, open again!
Like targhediferro, FAS/Standard was on my list of possibilities, but I as well have been unable to make a confirmed connection to any name other than Ansaldi. It appears that Ansaldi did not make any cars after the acquisition of FAS, but devoted the FAS plant to the manufacturing of artillery units. This would lead me to conclude that Ansaldi acquired FAS in order to gain the factory, and immediately sold of the design for the FAS to a third party. In addition to FAS there were in Turin at the time in question (about 1912) a number of small automobile producers which are today largely unknown. These were shortly purchased by larger firms for their wartime production capacity, and thus disappeared into anonymity rather quickly.
My speculation is that such a fate befell the FAS product during the period mentioned (1913-1915). Following this thinking I will suggest a firm that existed about this time, and might have acquired the FAS product. Is the name associated with the puzzle car: VALT by the firm Vetture Automobili Torino Leggere?
I haven't an answer even if I agree with 4popoid idea about the fact that another firm could have bought the project, but I've no clue about who.
I found a part of an article, written by Donatella Biffignandi, of Turin Museum of Automobile, about FAS...I think it can be interesting in this post.
"The Standard Fabbrica Automobili , or FAS , was born in Turin in driveway Stupinigi, corresponding to the current course of the Soviet Union , March 27, 1906 , with a capital of 1,200,000 francs, divided into 47,000 shares to 25 pounds each. The Board of Directors was constituted by Emilio Remmert , Paul Axerio , Fortunato Ugliengo ,Guido Piacenza. Was Managing Director Eng. Cinzio Barosi . The Company had the target to build " in the manufacture of a unique type of car, the force of 10-14 horses , and generally the repair and trade of automobile material and accessories "( The Car, 1906) . By the end of the year presented his unique type at the Salon Paris. He talked about all the French press : Auto , Les Sports , Le Figaro, La Presse , Le Matin , L'Echo de Paris, perhaps affected by the " unique type " that promised ease and economic production, perhaps impressed by the monumental stand, lit by " a profusion of light" and " where two fountains bright served background " ( Sport Press , n .. 52 , 1906) . On December 30 of the year Next , however, the situation is profoundly changed. It is held that day the shareholders' meeting , and after the reports of the Board of Directors and of the Auditors , certain shareholders spoke. The work of the Council is in fact far from satisfactory: first financial year of the company ends with a deficit of 71 thousand pounds (over 370 million today ) , "figure more apparent than real , since a careful examination of the individual matches the budget it would be a much greater " ( L'Automobile , Dec. 31 1907). The Chairman of the Board of Directors, ing. Paul Axerio says also possible, given the state of the company described as " very reassuring " that the factory is dedicated also to other kind of production that is not the car. A July the following year , convened an Extraordinary General Meeting of shareholders , it becomes clear that there are few alternatives to the liquidation of the company. The loss Operating in eight months amounted to 370 438 pounds, which is about one billion and eight hundred million today (parameters "Il Sole 24 Ore" , 16.01.1995 ). The report of the auditors report (from MACS August 1908 and " The Automobile " , July 31, 1908 ) : " The program with which the Promoters called shareholders to constitute the capital , and that was the limit within which they must carry out their action , was set apart and did not gave any account . The is so that while one had been budgeted Plant that would cost £ 300,000 , it costrusse one whose cost rises to £ 884,000 ; that while the machinery , tools, etc. transmissions . should not exceed the 300,000 it spent £ 578,700 instead of £ 300,000 not to mention that other immobilzzate and some were lost in the item of plant.
But this is not enough , even the year was not less disastrous system of the Company.
The two hundred and fifty cars that were manufactured in the first year and three hundred and fifty in the second, remained a mere promise . Was spent , inter alia , a sum of £ 40,000 for the purchase of a patent , of no value, and they spent other considerable sums for subsequent attempts , because the production lacked industrial - technical base .
Lightness on the one hand , disorder and the other incomplete attitude here is that the causes produced the current state of things. " So write the mayors , giving in conclusion the Board of Directors full responsibility for the loss that appeared from the budget; then calling the Council to ensure settling of the estate. Given this situation, some shareholders propose to appoint a commission of inquiry , but the proposal does not accepted by the Council , is rejected by the Assembly. So is approved commissioning liquidation of the company , and three are appointed liquidators. But the story is not over. A group of shareholders holding the resolution of the Assembly , deeming it illegal because in it are not represented three-quarters of the share capital , the number of Trade prescribes as necessary to approve the liquidation of company. The F.A.S. therefore survives until 1912 , the year in which the plants are detected by Michele Ansaldi and the company dissolved."
2 facts and a clue:
My source is a contemporary ad, where is reported the name (like FAS, it's an acronim) , the model name and the city.
The caption says that it could be (probably) the old FAS.
The city is not Turin.
FAP? Fabbrica Automobili Piacenza?
Not Piacenza.
FIAP of Padua?
Not Padua\Padova.
FIAP of Parma?
Is the city we are searching for Genoa?
Not Parma or Genoa\Genova
Is the city we are searching for Milan?
Not Milan.
Is the city we are searching for Modena?
Not Modena.
Not far from Milan.
Is the city we are searching for Legnano?
Pavia?
Closer to Milan than Legnano...and as close as Pavia but the other way around...not South of Milan ;)
Monza?
Go North-West...
I'm confused. You say the mystery city is northwest of Milan, as is Legnano, but closer. Yet you say that it is as close as Pavia. My map says Pavia 43 km from Milan, and Legnano is 29 km. So is the mystery city closer than Legnano, or closer than Pavia, which could make it further than Legnano.
How about ALFA (before Alfa Romeo) at Arese, 17 km northwest of Milan?
I am also confused, I'll try Saronno
not far from Milan
Closer to Milan than Legnano...and as close as Pavia but the other way around...not South of Milan
Monza? Go North-West
I am confused. ;D
Oh...I see now...I confused Legnano with Legnago!
Gallarate?
The arrow in my pic is pointing directly at that city. ;)
4 letters, starting with 'C'.
Como?
:thumbsup:
Built under license? It´s very similar to the British Standard, circa 1913-14.
That was my idea too, even if the source where I took the pic from suggests it could be the old FAS.
I'm not quite sure where to start grasping at straws, but I have to begin somewhere, so I'll begin the three letter game. Many Italian companies of the period were Officine Meccaniche ...., shortened to OM... Therefore my first guess is OMC: (Officine Meccaniche Como).
There are no O, M or C ;)
SFA?
Not SFA, but there's an 'S'.
SIL?
You got 2/3 of it ;)
SIV?
SIC?
SIG?
SIP?
SIN?
SIS?
SIF?
SIE?
SIR?
Bingo!
What is the missing part?
S.I.R. ? hp Standard.
I think it is not locked...so I try with 20 hp, the same power of the FAS.
Not 20.
10 hp?
Not 10.
Ooops, I didn't realize that you needed the hp. I believe that the puzzle car is an:
8 hp.
Not 8.
9.5 hp?
Not 9.5.
15 hp?
12 hp?
7 hp?
not 7.
14 hp?
Not 14.
16 hp?
Not 16.
My previous references all said that the British Standard was 9.5 hp, but now I have found one that says differently. Is this a: S.I.R. 9hp Standard?
Quote from: 4popoid on April 12, 2014, 01:15:38 PM
My previous references all said that the British Standard was 9.5 hp, but now I have found one that says differently. Is this a: S.I.R. 9hp Standard?
:bump:
5 hp?
Quote from: 4popoid on April 12, 2014, 01:15:38 PM
My previous references all said that the British Standard was 9.5 hp, but now I have found one that says differently. Is this a: S.I.R. 9hp Standard?
Yes, it's a S.I.R. 9hp Standard.
1 point for you, that find the city, the name and the correct hp number and one point for Targhediferro who got the FAS Standard bit!
Thank you Paul. ;D