Solved - NEH 2395: 1411 WD works 1964 Le Mans Sprite - built 1961/modified 1963

[Carnut]

What's this and from when does it date - for 1 point?:

ANYONE FOUND GIVING ANSWERS GLEANED BY USING GOOGLE SEARCH BY IMAGE MAY BE BANNED FOR AN INDETERMINATE PERIOD!

[Carnut]

Experts?

[nicanary]

The works-entered Austin-Healey Sebring Sprite at Le Mans 1964. It ran at the '63 event as well in similar form but the Kamm tail was shortened for '64, and I think this is that iteration.

Body designed by Frank Costin and built by Williams and Pritchard.

[Carnut]

The works-entered Austin-Healey Sebring Sprite at Le Mans 1964. It ran at the '63 event as well in similar form but the Kamm tail was shortened for '64, and I think this is that iteration.

Body designed by Frank Costin and built by Williams and Pritchard.

I'll give you that as it is the works car entered in the '64 Le Mans.
I don't know who designed and built it though!  I thought the Healey Motor Co, but it could be W&P as it was aluminium - unfortunately, as it was eventually broken up for scrap as the aluminium content was worth more than the car at the time...

There is the usual controversy about the facts; some say it was originally entered in the 1961 Le Mans with a bobtail body (pictured below) but the definitive version of events seems to be that it never competed at Le Mans in that form but was modified to its appearance as per the puzzle car in 1963 then entered at Le Mans in 1964.

Here are the pictures in its earlier form and the unmodified puzzle photo:

[nicanary]

This is a puzzle - the "bobtail" photos you show are of the 1963 Le Mans entry, and the same registration is on the Kamm-tail body 0f '64, but the official history books of Le Mans show the '64 registration as 770KNX, and the rear light arrangement is totally different.

In addition, your pic shows a racing number 47, whereas in the race it was  No.53. I believe it was entered at Sebring earlier in '64, but again the racing number is wrong. I have no idea where the puzzle photo was taken - I've got my point but now I'm hanging myself!

[Carnut]

This is a puzzle - the "bobtail" photos you show are of the 1963 Le Mans entry, and the same registration is on the Kamm-tail body 0f '64, but the official history books of Le Mans show the '64 registration as 770KNX, and the rear light arrangement is totally different.

In addition, your pic shows a racing number 47, whereas in the race it was  No.53. I believe it was entered at Sebring earlier in '64, but again the racing number is wrong. I have no idea where the puzzle photo was taken - I've got my point but now I'm hanging myself!

Well, in the article where I found it the car was said to have been entered in the '63 Le Mans with the bobtail bodywork then altered later that year, but later on someone else goes on to say everyone else is wrong and definitively it didn't race in there in '63...  
770 KNX is a different car.   I can PM you with the website address if you want but I'm sure you already know it...

Incidentally in the article it was also said to have been built in 1961 by the Donald Healey Motor Co. with no mention of Williams & Prtichard.

[nicanary]

The '63 entry was 58FAC. More confusion. (I misread the Spurring history book about the bodywork - it was the Sprinzel Sprites that were bodied by  W & P.) Shall we leave it now? 

[woodinsight]

Just to clarify the point regarding 1411 WD.....it did race at Le Mans in 1961 driven by Colgate/Hawkins and retired in the 8th hour with engine trouble.
The photo of it with truncated tail was not at Le Mans and neither was it entered there in 1963 or 1964.
I have the history of the car and now just need to tie up the racing number of the event that it was photographed at - I'll add that shortly.

[Carnut]

Just to clarify the point regarding 1411 WD.....it did race at Le Mans in 1961 driven by Colgate/Hawkins and retired in the 8th hour with engine trouble.
The photo of it with truncated tail was not at Le Mans and neither was it entered there in 1963 or 1964.
I have the history of the car and now just need to tie up the racing number of the event that it was photographed at - I'll add that shortly.

Apparently the photo of the car wearing the number 47 was taken at the Nurburgrin 500km in 1964.
Below is a little information provided by its one-time owner Mike Garton:

QUOTE
1411 WD was the first all-alloy Coupe built by Geoff Healey for the 1961 Le Mans 24 Hours. The car is also depicted in Bill Emerson's book on pages 184 and 185. It had wire wheels in Le Mans form but in the action pictures shown in the book it has Healey alloy wheels and is actually being driven by Mike at Mallory Park and Brands Hatch..

The photo above also shows the car with the Healey alloy wheels and at this time it had a 1098cc engine. Up to 1964 the Nurburgring 500kms was restricted to capacities of 1000cc.

The car was later modified to a Kamm Tail design, and was known as the 'Bobtail Sprite'

Mike explains the story of how this modification came about

' After collecting the car from the Cape I was at Snetterton where we had a class win and a third in a 1600cc class. A couple of weeks later was the Arhie-Scott Brown Memorial International 100 miles race where Geoff entered Chrissie Carlisle in one of the Spridget bodied cars. Dunlop had supplied me with a set of the new lower profile 500L tyres. Too keen to impress Geoff and beat Chrissie with cold tyres in practice, I lost the back end going into the old Esses and hit the bank sideways. I collected the bits, the rear screen etc, and in the paddock AHC members seem to come from everywhere and we had the car looking quite tidy on the grid. We had a class win ahead of both of the Dick Jacob's Midgets.

The extended rear body was on outriggers that also supported the large 70 litre fuel tank used for Le Mans. ( I always used the smaller 45 litre tank, particularly at the 'Ring as the car handled better). We found that the accident had weakened the rear body so we talked to a firend of a friend who was the body man at BRM, who were located at Bourne near my home in Peterborough.

We took WD to his home workshop and after discussion I decided I wanted the rear end cut off. The supports were shortened and a single sheet of alloy was shaped and cut giving a small gurney type lip. This was then alloy welded ( a beautiful piece of work), the original lights were re-fitted after re-painting and so the "Bobtail Sprite" was born.
UNQUOTE

[nicanary]

When it was first posted I knew immediately what it was and was just waiting for it to be upgraded to the Experts (BTW the present bunch of Rookies are a pretty poor lot, some of the puzzles are shoe-ins). In fact, in a way I was wrong, but I answered it before looking in the reference books. However, in my defence I got the question right, in that it is an A-H Sebring Sprite, and the year was 1964.(!) It's just not the car I thought it was.

[nicanary]

Aarrgghh.. Mike Garton's car at the 1964 500kms was No. 96. good grief........is there an end to this........

[Carnut]

Aarrgghh.. Mike Garton's car at the 1964 500kms was No. 96. good grief........is there an end to this........

Here's another picture of this car taken at the Nurburgring 500km but in 1965, not '64 - wearing the number 47!
Does that solve the mystery?!

[woodinsight]

That's Mike Garton with the car at the 1965 Nurburgring 500km where he finished 10th overall. The only problem is that it's No. 41!
(No. 47 was another Sprite entered by Douglas Wilson-Spratt and driven by Peter Jackson)

[Carnut]

That's Mike Garton with the car at the 1965 Nurburgring 500km where he finished 10th overall. The only problem is that it's No. 41!
(No. 47 was another Sprite entered by Douglas Wilson-Spratt and driven by Peter Jackson)

Ah yes.
Mystery still unsolved then!

[nicanary]

The puzzle photo doesn't look like Le Mans or the 'Ring - more like a small circuit like Brands Hatch. 

[Carnut]

What's this, by whom, from when - for 1 point?:

Remember - solving puzzles using 'Google Search by Image' is BANNED on AutoPuzzles!

[Carnut]

Experts?

[shamrock]

MIKE GARTONS , sprite built as an alloy prototype by the Healey motor co , 1963

[Carnut]

MIKE GARTONS , sprite built as an alloy prototype by the Healey motor co , 1963

It is a Sprite, but I have it as a different one from a different year.
Locked for you to dig into and either come up with what I have it as or prove my info wrong!

[shamrock]

built by Healey for Le Mans in 1961, sold to Mike Garton in 63, modified to become THE BOBTAIL SPRITE as in the photo

[Carnut]

built by Healey for Le Mans in 1961, sold to Mike Garton in 63, modified to become THE BOBTAIL SPRITE as in the photo

I do believe you are right, which actually makes it a repost of one of my own puzzles.
I thought so originally but I couldn't find it so posted anyway, but with the additional information I've now found it so have merged it and awarded you a point!

[datsone]

(BTW the present bunch of Rookies are a pretty poor lot, some of the puzzles are shoe-ins).

Necessary?

[nicanary]

(BTW the present bunch of Rookies are a pretty poor lot, some of the puzzles are shoe-ins).

Necessary?

No. You're quite correct to question this IMO, and I apologise in retrospect to all Rookies past and present. All I can use in my defence is the possibility that, at that time, some members of AP had been discussing the quality of the posting by the Rookies of that moment.

Personally I thought that puzzle was simple, but it's easy to get muddled thinking - some members of this site specialise in one thing, some in others. Puzzles like the Sprite can be solved with a bit of work on the internet even if racing cars don't interest the puzzler, which possibly explains my frustration at the time.

However, this is a very friendly community, and there are no excuses for being rude.

BTW I haven't heard that old Rolls Canardly joke since primary school days! It takes me back......

[datsone]

Thanks, nicanary -- can't speak for other rookies but I'm obviously a dabbler at this and impressed by the knowledge and resources of this group. It's already been challenging and educational and there's much more to learn here 

[Carnut]

It's already been challenging and educational and there's much more to learn here 

I think like a lot of people here I thought I knew a bit about cars when I joined.  Now I realise that I know almost nothing!
I learn something every single day but I think my brain is full now as I forget just as much..  hence the resposts of my own puzzles!
Glad to have you on board and to see you enjoy it; I think you'll go far!