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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2015 => Topic started by: Carnut on December 23, 2014, 07:28:31 AM

Title: Solved - NEH 3842: Borgward Isabella 4-door conversion by Walter Köng - 1958
Post by: Carnut on December 23, 2014, 07:28:31 AM
What's this, by whom, from when - for 1 point?:

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Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: Carnut on January 06, 2015, 05:51:11 AM
Experts?
Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: exekiel on January 06, 2015, 08:55:18 AM
seem a borward isabella from late 50. from worblaufen?
Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: Carnut on January 06, 2015, 09:08:48 AM
Quote from: exekiel on January 06, 2015, 08:55:18 AM
seem a borward isabella from late 50. from worblaufen?

Borgward Isabella is correct but not by Worblaufen.
No lock yet though as that was the easy bit...
Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: exekiel on January 10, 2015, 10:15:32 PM
maybe and isabella taxi by Karrosseriebaukünstlers
Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: Carnut on January 11, 2015, 01:14:08 PM
Quote from: exekiel on January 10, 2015, 10:15:32 PM
maybe and isabella taxi by Karrosseriebaukünstlers

It's not a taxi and isn't by them..
Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: richard cuyler on January 12, 2015, 09:07:42 AM
This appears to be Borgward (reg number BL 3784), which to my knowledge is the one and only prototype four-door Borgward made, I imagine by Borgward themselves. Not sure of that though. ???
Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: Carnut on January 12, 2015, 09:22:42 AM
Quote from: richard cuyler on January 12, 2015, 09:07:42 AM
This appears to be Borgward (reg number BL 3784), which to my knowledge is the one and only prototype four-door Borgward made, I imagine by Borgward themselves. Not sure of that though. ???

We've already established that it's a Borgward Isabella (see Replies #2 + 3).
It's far from the only 4-door Borgward made; there were plenty of them!
But this one was bodied by someone other than Borgward themselves, so for the point I need to know who that was.
Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: richard cuyler on January 13, 2015, 08:40:01 AM
Oh, OK. The website I have checked suggests this was the only one. Can't trust everything you read on t'Net!
Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: Carnut on January 13, 2015, 09:30:01 AM
Quote from: richard cuyler on January 13, 2015, 08:40:01 AM
Oh, OK. The website I have checked suggests this was the only one. Can't trust everything you read on t'Net!

Ah, well it depends what it said it was the only one of.
It's far from the only 4-door Borgward but it is unique for a....  What?  And by whom?
Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: richard cuyler on January 15, 2015, 08:51:59 AM
As an aside, an uncle of mine was a great fan of Borgwards and when I was a car-mad teenager, he often took me for a ride in his red Isabella. I recall it was a tightly constructed car and seemed to ride the bumps well. I loved the engine note, which was wonderfully gruff and sounded powerful. I absolutely loved the car. A four door version, I am sure, would have increased the lifespan of this car for several years, as they were known for their strength and reliability, but with only a 2 door car in the range, potential buyers were quite limited.
Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: Carnut on January 15, 2015, 09:01:25 AM
Interesting.  I remember seeing the odd Borgward around when I was a young teenager, in the days when only about 5% of cars sold in the UK were foreign and they were regarded as cars for eccentrics rather than anything else.  There was a 4-door Borgward in the (large) village where I lived, as well as a Lancia (not sure which one any more) and the odd VW and Renault Dauphine plus a Mercedes, which was very fancy and expensive for its time.  And some nut had an Opel Kapitän!

Anyway, back to the puzzle, we've already established that it's a Borgward Isabella, and you say above that the Isabella was only made as a 2-door car.  So that makes this a 4-door Isabella. Unusual?  Unique?  Take it from there...
Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: richard cuyler on January 15, 2015, 04:38:16 PM
Could this particular car have been a test-bed for the upcoming P100 six cylinder, four-door Borgward? If this isn't the case, I think I'll stand back and let someone else try and find out more about this vehicle, as I'm out of ideas. :(
Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: Carnut on January 16, 2015, 04:25:41 AM
Quote from: richard cuyler on January 15, 2015, 04:38:16 PM
Could this particular car have been a test-bed for the upcoming P100 six cylinder, four-door Borgward? If this isn't the case, I think I'll stand back and let someone else try and find out more about this vehicle, as I'm out of ideas. :(

No, not that I'm afraid.
Open to all Rookies and Experts again!
Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: Majeko on January 18, 2015, 03:11:18 PM
Is it a 4 door protype built by Borgward Argentina?
Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: Carnut on January 18, 2015, 06:41:33 PM
Quote from: Majeko on January 18, 2015, 03:11:18 PM
Is it a 4 door protype built by Borgward Argentina?

No, it's not from Argentina and was built by someone other than Borgward.
Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: Majeko on January 20, 2015, 06:00:05 AM
It was built in 1958 by Walter Kong for Swiss racing driver Franz Hammernick
Title: Re: NEH 3842
Post by: Carnut on January 20, 2015, 06:03:02 AM
Quote from: Majeko on January 20, 2015, 06:00:05 AM
It was built in 1958 by Walter Kong for Swiss racing driver Franz Hammernick

It was indeed.
That's more info than I had too; I wonder why a racing driver would want a 4-door Isabella?!
Well done.
Title: Re: Solved - NEH 3842: Borgward Isabella 4-door conversion by Walter Köng
Post by: Wendax on January 20, 2015, 06:39:41 AM
It is not a converted Coupé as the header implies. In 1960, the former works driver and Borgward dealer Franz Hammernick of Birsfelden, Switzerland, took a 1958 Borgward Isabella TS sedan and commissioned a coachbuilder to add two rear doors. Therefore the front doors had to be shortened. The car was first registered in 1961. The sources are contradictory about who did the coachwork. Peter Michels writes in his Borgward book that Köng of Basel did the bodywork, while the interior was done by Dietrich. A Motor Klassik article about the restored car just names Dietrich as coachbuilder. Nowadays a 93 hp Borgward engine, originally built by Borgward's research department for Isabella's successor, is installed in the puzzle car.
Title: Re: Solved - NEH 3842: Borgward Isabella Coupé 4-door conversion by Walter Kong - 19658
Post by: Bill Murray on January 20, 2015, 07:26:20 AM
Sorry, the photo was way too large on the first post.

I too had this as a Köng bodied Isabella TS and for the same owner.

I post a photo below of the front view of the car and another photo of recent vintage where the car has a Taxi sign on it.
I assume it is the same car appearing at what I imagine is a Borgward Owner's gathering.
Bill

Title: Re: Solved - NEH 3842: Borgward Isabella Coupé 4-door by Walter Kong - 1958
Post by: Carnut on January 20, 2015, 07:56:10 AM
Thanks.  I've amended the heading.
I see Bill's front view is taken at the same place as the puzzle photo, surely at the same time.
Glad the car has survived. I wonder if it really was ever used as a taxi?!
Title: Re: Solved - NEH 3842: Borgward Isabella 4-door conversion by Walter Kong - 1958
Post by: Bill Murray on January 20, 2015, 08:09:44 AM
Yes, Norman, the frontal view was taken at the same time as your photo, I assume upon delivery.

According to various vehicle histories I have access to, Borgward never offered a 4 door factory built vehicle.
I found the taxi photo using Google Search "Borgward Taxi" or "Isabella Taxi" on Google.de., don't remember exactly which term I used.

Complements to Köng in that in my colour photo, it looks about as "factory" as one can get. A really seamless conversion.
Bill
Title: Re: Solved - NEH 3842: Borgward Isabella 4-door conversion by Walter Kong - 1958
Post by: ropat53 on January 20, 2015, 08:31:34 AM
The taxi has a ragtop sunroof and the puzzle car doesn't seem to, I wonder if they are the same car?
Title: Re: Solved - NEH 3842: Borgward Isabella 4-door conversion by Walter Kong - 1958
Post by: Wendax on January 20, 2015, 08:33:27 AM
Quote from: Bill Murray on January 20, 2015, 08:09:44 AM
According to various vehicle histories I have access to, Borgward never offered a 4 door factory built vehicle.
Borgward surely built a lot of four-door vehicles, like the Hansa 1500, Hansa 1800, Hansa 2400, P100 and more prewar cars. But there never was a factory-built four-door Isabella.

Quote from: Carnut on January 20, 2015, 07:56:10 AM
I wonder if it really was ever used as a taxi?!
I don't think so.
Title: Re: Solved - NEH 3842: Borgward Isabella 4-door conversion by Walter Kong - 1958
Post by: Carnut on January 20, 2015, 08:59:10 AM
Quote from: ropat53 on January 20, 2015, 08:31:34 AM
The taxi has a ragtop sunroof and the puzzle car doesn't seem to, I wonder if they are the same car?

Everything I've seen about this car says it was the only 4-door Isabella ever built.
Sunroofs were all the rage (often retro-fitted) for many years, before air-conditioning became almost universal.
Whilst factory-fitted sunroofs were generally of the sliding steel variety, the retro-fitted ones were more often than not fabric, usually be Webasto.
Title: Re: Solved - NEH 3842: Borgward Isabella 4-door conversion by Walter Köng - 1958
Post by: richard cuyler on January 20, 2015, 09:43:04 AM
My info came from a Borgward Owner's links site, which had this picture (seems to be the same car as shown in the original AP shot), with the heading: 'The only 4-door Isabella, went never into production' (sic).

<<Link removed>>
Title: Re: Solved - NEH 3842: Borgward Isabella 4-door conversion by Walter Köng - 1958
Post by: Carnut on January 20, 2015, 10:07:33 AM
Sorry Richard - I've removed your link.
They are not allowed; please remember!
Thanks for the extra info though, which would tie in with what I have.
Title: Re: Solved - NEH 3842: Borgward Isabella 4-door conversion by Walter Köng - 1958
Post by: Bill Murray on January 20, 2015, 10:57:56 AM
Hi Norman & Robbie:

Yes, retrofitted folding roofs were very popular in Europe both before and after the war.
Here are a couple of Pennock adverts.

Bill
Title: Re: Solved - NEH 3842: Borgward Isabella 4-door conversion by Walter Kong - 1958
Post by: Wendax on January 20, 2015, 04:59:05 PM
Quote from: ropat53 on January 20, 2015, 08:31:34 AM
The taxi has a ragtop sunroof and the puzzle car doesn't seem to, I wonder if they are the same car?
The sunroof must be a modern day addition. In the 1999 Motor Klassik article about the car, it is still black with no sunroof, but the shape of the rear door is exactly the same, so it should be the same car.
Title: Re: Solved - NEH 3842: Borgward Isabella 4-door conversion by Walter Köng - 1958
Post by: Carnut on January 20, 2015, 06:16:56 PM
The Basel (or Basle as we call it!) registration would perhaps indicate the veracity of the fact it was built by Walter Köng?
Title: Re: Solved - NEH 3842: Borgward Isabella 4-door conversion by Walter Köng - 1958
Post by: Wendax on September 14, 2019, 10:46:15 AM
The taxi is a different car: https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/2017-46/wendax-2970