AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!

Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2015 => Topic started by: Carnut on May 06, 2015, 07:59:26 AM

Title: Solved - NEH 4070: Bobsy SR-4 prototype built by Stephen Payne Herbert with Porsche engine - 1967
Post by: Carnut on May 06, 2015, 07:59:26 AM
What's this, powered by what and built by whom - for 1 point?:

Remember - solving puzzles using 'Google Search by Image' is BANNED on AutoPuzzles!
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on May 20, 2015, 05:00:55 AM
Experts?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 17, 2015, 05:21:05 AM
Up to the Pro's...
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: nicanary on June 17, 2015, 06:28:48 AM
Porsche-engined?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 17, 2015, 07:47:34 AM
Porsche-engined?

Yes!
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: nicanary on June 17, 2015, 08:57:23 AM
Anything to do with Herb Wetanson ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 17, 2015, 09:41:01 AM
Anything to do with Herb Wetanson ?

The founder of Wetson's Hamburger chain?!
Ah, you must mean the other one..  No, not that I am aware of.
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: nicanary on June 18, 2015, 08:07:18 AM
Built in the USA ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 18, 2015, 09:43:26 AM
Built in the USA ?

Yes..
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: nicanary on June 18, 2015, 11:19:56 AM
FYI Herb Wetanson had a string of Porsche race cars, and one was a 906 which he converted into a spyder. I thought maybe this was a continuation of that car. Porsche cars would have been expensive back then, so maybe this was indeed the hamburger king.

That's a 6-cylinder motor - so this car has been built around 1970 (apeing the McLaren CanAm cars) and I'm guessing the engine came from a 906/910/907 or there's a faint chance it came from a road car.

Do you know if the puzzle car was used in CanAm racing at all, like Tony Dean's 908?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 18, 2015, 12:04:29 PM
No, they were two different unrelated Herb Wetansons!

I haven't been able to ascertain exactly which Porsche engine was fitted or where it came from, but I do know this car didn't race in the CanAm series.
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 18, 2015, 12:20:33 PM
Non-Porsche chassis ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 18, 2015, 02:57:50 PM
Non-Porsche chassis ?

Indeed.
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 19, 2015, 05:34:14 AM
No, they were two different unrelated Herb Wetansons!

I thought it a bit odd that there could be two different Herb Wetansons of a similar age at the same time in the same area so I dug into it a bit more and found this:

QUOTE
Wetson’s was founded in 1959 by Harold Norbitz (1921-2001) of Dix Hills, LI and Carl Wetanson (1912-1995) of Woodmere. It was headquartered in Valley Stream.
 
Observing the McDonald’s formula for restaurant success, Wetson’s planned to duplicate it in New York — an open market at the time with no fast food restaurants.
 
Carl’s older son, Herbert, pushed for franchises all over Queens and Long Island before McDonald’s could enter the market. Herbert Wetanson was a successful race car driver well-known on Long Island.
UNQUOTE

It's nothing to do with this thread of course but interesting nevertheless!
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: nicanary on June 19, 2015, 05:38:28 AM
The wonder of the web - the gift that keeps on giving  ;D
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: nicanary on June 20, 2015, 07:19:55 AM
One of Harald Kirberg's KK cars?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 20, 2015, 10:03:08 AM
One of Harald Kirberg's KK cars?

No.
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: nicanary on June 21, 2015, 04:33:02 PM
Bit of a long shot, but that body reminds me of a Legrand Mk18. Is this the one-off Mk16 built for Mason O'Kief ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 22, 2015, 04:37:58 AM
Bit of a long shot, but that body reminds me of a Legrand Mk18. Is this the one-off Mk16 built for Mason O'Kief ?

I'm afraid it isn't, no!
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 25, 2015, 12:31:40 PM
Is it a homemade one-off or was it built by a company ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 26, 2015, 05:03:24 AM
Is it a homemade one-off or was it built by a company ?

The body is a home-built one-off.
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 26, 2015, 05:05:49 AM
European chassis ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 26, 2015, 05:16:27 AM
European chassis ?

No.
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 26, 2015, 05:27:27 AM
American chassis ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 26, 2015, 05:40:32 AM
American chassis ?

Yes!
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 26, 2015, 08:06:02 AM
Did it compete in USRRC ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 26, 2015, 08:56:24 AM
Did it compete in USRRC ?

I believe so, yes.
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 26, 2015, 09:07:47 AM
McKee chassis ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 26, 2015, 09:36:56 AM
McKee chassis ?

No.
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 26, 2015, 09:44:02 AM
Chinook chassis ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 26, 2015, 09:46:02 AM
Chinook chassis ?

No.
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 26, 2015, 09:57:37 AM
Last USRRC season was in 1968, but the puzzle car looks more modern (circa 1970). Is it a car that once raced in USRRC and then got redesigned ? Maybe the Porsche-powered Kelly Special ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: nicanary on June 26, 2015, 11:24:44 AM
Bit of a long shot, but is there any connection with Vasek Polak ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 26, 2015, 02:07:41 PM
Last USRRC season was in 1968, but the puzzle car looks more modern (circa 1970). Is it a car that once raced in USRRC and then got redesigned ? Maybe the Porsche-powered Kelly Special ?

The car dates from before 1968 of course; I can't say for certain when the body was built but I believe from new, so maybe it was just futuristic!

Bit of a long shot, but is there any connection with Vasek Polak ?

'Fraid not!
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 26, 2015, 05:54:11 PM
Algeri-Porsche ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 26, 2015, 06:55:04 PM
Algeri-Porsche ?

No..
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 26, 2015, 07:15:03 PM
Denmacher-Porsche ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 27, 2015, 08:10:48 AM
Denmacher-Porsche ?

No again..
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: nicanary on June 27, 2015, 08:21:13 AM
I wonder whether this is a rebodied version of a car which was built in the early 60s. Is it the Kelly Special ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 27, 2015, 10:05:52 AM
I wonder whether this is a rebodied version of a car which was built in the early 60s. Is it the Kelly Special ?

Your question is remarkably similar to my #31 question  ;)
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 27, 2015, 10:06:52 AM
Merlyn-Porsche ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 27, 2015, 02:29:07 PM
I wonder whether this is a rebodied version of a car which was built in the early 60s. Is it the Kelly Special ?

Your question is remarkably similar to my #31 question  ;)

And the answer's still the same!

Merlyn-Porsche ?

Not this either.
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 27, 2015, 03:04:04 PM
Dolphin-Porsche ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 28, 2015, 01:49:05 PM
Dolphin-Porsche ?

No!
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 28, 2015, 05:24:29 PM
Was the car built in 1967 ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 28, 2015, 06:21:40 PM
Was the car built in 1967 ?

I don't think so but I'll have to check tomorrow.
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 29, 2015, 04:47:45 AM
Was the car built in 1967 ?

I don't think so but I'll have to check tomorrow.

It was indeed built in 1967!
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 29, 2015, 05:27:40 AM
Caldwell chassis ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 29, 2015, 05:33:06 AM
Caldwell chassis ?

No.
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 29, 2015, 05:41:37 AM
Bobsy chassis ?
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 29, 2015, 06:16:39 AM
Bobsy chassis ?

Progress!
Yes it is, so I'll lock it for you until your next reply.
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 29, 2015, 07:23:15 AM
1967 Bobsy SR-4 with Porsche engine and body built by Steven Payne Herbert
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 29, 2015, 07:29:52 AM
We got there!
Well done.
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: oko94 on June 29, 2015, 07:36:53 AM
Thanks !

I haven't found any evidence of this car being raced in USRRC, do you have more information about that ? The closest I could find is a Bobsy SR3 with an unspecified engine entered at the 1967 USRRC race in Mid-Ohio.
Title: Re: NEH 4070
Post by: Carnut on June 29, 2015, 07:49:56 AM
Thanks !

I haven't found any evidence of this car being raced in USRRC, do you have more information about that ? The closest I could find is a Bobsy SR3 with an unspecified engine entered at the 1967 USRRC race in Mid-Ohio.

I had a picture of this car competing at Nelson Ledges, which I understood to be a USRRC location.

I'm away now until Wednesday bit I'll see if I can find it again when I get back.
Title: Re: Solved - NEH 4070: Bobsy SR-4 prototype built by Stephen Payne Herbert with Porsche engine - 196
Post by: nicanary on June 29, 2015, 08:09:14 AM
The car looks very advanced for the time, as we have said before. According to the Bobsy Register, the SR4 was not introduced until 1970, and only one was made, with a Lotus twin-cam engine. Having said that, further information on the net suggests that 2 or 3 were made.

The SR5 had bodywork like the puzzle car, and came out in 1971. I wonder whether the owner of this car used parts from a 1967 Bobsy (probably an SR3) and that's where the date comes from, and he added the engine and new bodywork in the early 1970s?
Title: Re: Solved - NEH 4070: Bobsy SR-4 prototype built by Stephen Payne Herbert with Porsche engine - 196
Post by: Carnut on June 29, 2015, 06:03:46 PM
The following came from a Bobsy websigte:

QUOTE
We're only aware of the one Bobsy SR-4 Prototype originally with a Lotus Twin Cam engine that was completed at the time.  Apparently Mong started designing the SR-4 Prototype in 1967.   Evidence suggests that several SR-4 Prototypes were at least started (maybe four,  according to Jerry Mong's notes).

Another was sold as a chassis only to Steven Payne Herbert who fitted a Porsche engine and constructed a homemade wide body.  That car is now owned by David Irwin.  The picture at left is the car at Nelson Ledges with Steven and Uncle Dick.
UNQUOTE

This one is the puzzle car, which I perhaps wrongly assumed was from around the same time, as Mong had moved on to the SR-5 within a couple of years.  As said, I thought the Nelson Ledges races were part of the USRRC series, but perhaps I'm wrong?