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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2015 => Topic started by: Paul Jaray on January 29, 2014, 07:39:13 AM

Title: Solved -PJ589- Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 29, 2014, 07:39:13 AM
Here you are as promised the 2nd edition of my group puzzle dedicated to Etceterini.

ETCETERINI:They are hand made small displacement Italian racing cars which were produced from the late 1940's to the early 1960's
That name mimic some Italians surnames ending with -ini, like Stanguellini, Ermini, Bandini, Giannini, Volpiti, etc...eterini!

Here you will find some cars that will fit the term, others won't.
2 is the key number here.
You'll have 18 cars (2x2x2x2+2) to identify.
I know there is a good book about this cars (La Sport e i suoi Artigiani), but don't you think you'll be penalized if you do not have it, not a single picture of this puzzle cames from there.
This puzzle has got some easy ones and some hard nuts.

2 cars are not strictly speaking etceterinis.: Giai Spéciale 1949 & Tassy & Glenat Simca Huit Barchetta 1949
2 cars are still unidentified because I was too lazy, they can be the easiest ones or not[/u]: Fiat-BMW & Fiat 500a Siata
2 cars are not in that book and nowhere else, it seems.: Fiat 508c Giordano
2 cars are not in that book but somewhere else.:Fiat 1100 sport Panepinto 1951 & ?
2 cars are in that book but it won't be easy. Ala d'Oro JAP 1100 Sport
2 cars are in that book but you won't see them.: FDS-Fiat 1100 1951 & ?
2 cars will be mistaken. Buoncristiani 1100 Sport derivata Ermini
2 different names I need for 1 car: Motor RG-1 Lancia Sport by Garage Rondine
2 data can be found of a car but not its builder: Fiat 500 Sport driven by Giorgio Guerrieri
2 cars will be easily found: Fona-Fiat 1100 1949 & Fiat 1100s Raviola

Hurry up, I'll move it after 2 days of inactivity!
Enjoy!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 29, 2014, 07:39:25 AM
.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 29, 2014, 07:40:08 AM
Answers:

Etc.1: Giuliani 750 Sport Carnut
Etc.2: Fiat 500a Barchetta Siata targhediferro
Etc.3: Buoncristiani 1100 derivata Ermini Carnut
Etc.4: Fiat 500 Sport driven by Giorgio Guerrieri targhediferro
Etc.5: Fiat 508C by Giordano targhediferro
Etc.6: Giai Spéciale 1949 targhediferro
Etc.7: Fiat-BMW targhediferro
Etc.8: FDS-Fiat 1100 1951 Iluvatar
Etc.9: Tassy & Glenat Simca Huit Barchetta 1949  Wendax
Etc.10: Fiat 508 C Poponi Barchetta Corsa 1954 Carnut
Etc.11: Motor RG-1 Lancia Sport by Garage Rondine Wendax
Etc.12: Fiat 1100 sport Panepinto 1951 targhediferro
Etc.13: Ciarelli 750 Sport targhediferro
Etc.14: Fona-Fiat 1100 1949 Iluvatar
Etc.15: Ala d'Oro JAP 1100 Sport Wendax
Etc.16: Fiat 1100 Rosselli driven by Carmine Diaferia Carnut
Etc.17: Fiat 1100s Barchetta Raviola 1946-68 mekubb
Etc.18: Fiat 1100 Sport Orlando 1951 targhediferro
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Iluvatar on January 29, 2014, 08:37:28 AM
 :P
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Iluvatar on January 29, 2014, 08:45:12 AM
Etc.8 - FDS-Fiat 1100 with Agostino Accadia at 1951 Catania-Etna
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Iluvatar on January 29, 2014, 08:47:26 AM
Etc.14 - Fona-Fiat 1100
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Iluvatar on January 29, 2014, 09:01:45 AM
The car behind Etc.18 is a Volpini Fiat 1100...  but maybe I won't earn a point for that ;D
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 29, 2014, 10:43:08 AM

2 cars are not strictly speaking etceterinis.
2 cars are still unidentified because I was too lazy, they can be the easiest ones or not, I just don't know.
2 cars are not in that book and nowhere else, it seems.
2 cars are not in that book but somewhere else.
2 cars are in that book but it won't be easy.
2 cars are in that book but you won't see them.: FDS-Fiat 1100 1951
2 cars will be mistaken.
2 different names I need for 1 car
2 data can be found of a car but not its builder
2 cars will be easily found: Fona-Fiat 1100 1949


So far so good!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 29, 2014, 10:49:21 AM
Fortunately I'm not late...I forgot to add the only rule: max 2 correct id per puzzler each day. You can guess at all of them but once you find 2 you'll have to wait to proceed.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Iluvatar on January 29, 2014, 11:17:26 AM
Fortunately I'm not late...I forgot to add the only rule: max 2 correct id per puzzler each day. You can guess at all of them but once you find 2 you'll have to wait to proceed.
::)
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: mekubb on January 29, 2014, 12:58:46 PM
Etc.11  Lancia Ardea Barchetta 1952  Great puzzle by the way !
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 29, 2014, 01:03:25 PM
Etc.11  Lancia Ardea Barchetta 1952  Great puzzle by the way !
Not enough... ;)
(thank you!)
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: mekubb on January 29, 2014, 02:31:41 PM
Etc.11  Lancia Ardea Barchetta 1952  Great puzzle by the way !
Not enough... ;)
(thank you!)
What more info do you need ?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 29, 2014, 02:41:11 PM
Lancia never produced that car and your answer is too generic.
90% of Etceterinis can be described as 'Fiat Sport', but there are dozens of 'artigiani' behind those cars, not Fiat.
Incidentally, you pick the car that as to be identified with 2 names.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: mekubb on January 29, 2014, 04:19:01 PM
I will come back on Et11. Meanwhile I found Et17 : a 1946 Fiat 1100 S Barchetta, rebodied in 1968 by Giulio Raviola, it started as a saloon car
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 29, 2014, 04:34:58 PM
Et17 is correct!

2 cars are not strictly speaking etceterinis.
2 cars are still unidentified because I was too lazy, they can be the easiest ones or not, I just don't know.
2 cars are not in that book and nowhere else, it seems.
2 cars are not in that book but somewhere else.
2 cars are in that book but it won't be easy.
2 cars are in that book but you won't see them.: FDS-Fiat 1100 1951
2 cars will be mistaken.
2 different names I need for 1 car
2 data can be found of a car but not its builder
2 cars will be easily found: Fona-Fiat 1100 1949 & Fiat 1100s Raviola



Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: mekubb on January 30, 2014, 01:03:22 PM
Et11, was one of the names Rondine ?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 30, 2014, 02:20:17 PM
Et11, was one of the names Rondine ?
Yes. Locked for you.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 31, 2014, 03:11:46 PM
Pros...start you engines...
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 02, 2014, 05:51:29 PM
Go!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on February 03, 2014, 06:34:05 AM
I suppose that number 4 is the Fiat 500 Sport Guerreri (SR-6669);
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on February 03, 2014, 06:39:30 AM
Number 12 should be a Fiat 1100 sport Panepinto, from 1951.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2014, 07:26:43 AM
#4. According to my source Guerrieri should be the pilot, was He the builder too?
#12. Yes! I hope you have not the same source of mine... ;D

see you tomorrow!



Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: SACO on February 03, 2014, 05:23:53 PM
et3 :Ermini of Roberto Rosa ?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: SACO on February 03, 2014, 05:31:59 PM
et11 : Stanguellini sport 1948
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 04, 2014, 03:47:09 AM
et3 :Ermini of Roberto Rosa ?
et11 : Stanguellini sport 1948
et3: It is Ermini-engined, but I need a name. Not Rosa
et11: Not Stanguellini.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on February 04, 2014, 07:35:04 AM
I think it passed 24 hours since my last post: I think number 6 is something different from the others, It should be the Peugeot 202 based, Giai from France, I think about 1952.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 04, 2014, 07:45:12 AM
I think it passed 24 hours since my last post: I think number 6 is something different from the others, It should be the Peugeot 202 based, Giai from France, I think about 1952.
Yes! I have it from 1949, but that's the car.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on February 04, 2014, 10:43:18 AM
Is the full name of et3 an Ermini 357 Sport, from 1955?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 04, 2014, 10:49:27 AM
Is the full name of et3 an Ermini 357 Sport, from 1955?
Nope.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on February 04, 2014, 11:02:03 AM
Is the full name of et3 an Ermini 357 Sport, from 1955?
Nope.

What about an Ermini Sport Competizione 1100 then (also from 1955)?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 04, 2014, 11:05:06 AM
Is the full name of et3 an Ermini 357 Sport, from 1955?
Nope.

What about an Ermini Sport Competizione 1100 then (also from 1955)?
It's not what I'm looking for. There is a name missing, the name of the person who built it.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on February 04, 2014, 12:00:02 PM
Is the full name of et3 an Ermini 357 Sport, from 1955?
Nope.

What about an Ermini Sport Competizione 1100 then (also from 1955)?
It's not what I'm looking for. There is a name missing, the name of the person who built it.

Morelli?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 04, 2014, 12:25:53 PM
Not Morelli.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on February 04, 2014, 02:59:31 PM
Scaglietti?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 04, 2014, 04:30:33 PM
Not a coachbuilder.
The engine was bought new from Ermini, the chassis was built by someone and the body by someone else.
I need the name of the person who commissioned those works.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: João on February 04, 2014, 09:54:46 PM
#11 : According to my source this car was built in 1948 by Remo Gattai, using a Fiat Topolino chassis and a Lancia Ardea engine with a reduced capacity of 750cc.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: SACO on February 05, 2014, 02:18:47 AM
#et11 : a Giaur  750 sport ?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on February 05, 2014, 04:15:49 AM
Not a coachbuilder.
The engine was bought new from Ermini, the chassis was built by someone and the body by someone else.
I need the name of the person who commissioned those works.

OK.  Gilco chassis?  Body commissioned by Frua?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 05, 2014, 04:52:59 AM
#et11 : a Giaur  750 sport ?
Not Giaur.
#11 : According to my source this car was built in 1948 by Remo Gattai, using a Fiat Topolino chassis and a Lancia Ardea engine with a reduced capacity of 750cc.
Ok nearly there.
As I told Mekubb, I need to names: Remo Gattai is the key for both these names.
1 of this was Rondine (or better 'Garage Rondine'). What about the 2nd? Locked for mekubb and João
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 05, 2014, 04:55:33 AM
Not a coachbuilder.
The engine was bought new from Ermini, the chassis was built by someone and the body by someone else.
I need the name of the person who commissioned those works.

OK.  Gilco chassis?  Body commissioned by Frua?
The chassis' builder and the coachbuilder are unknown to my source.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on February 05, 2014, 05:35:07 AM
OK, understood.
I know the car is in the Mortari collection and is driven on events in Italy by Massimo Mortari and Luca de Sanctis, but since this car was built nearly 60 years ago there's unlikely to be a connection..  Unless it's been in the Mortari family since new?!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 05, 2014, 09:16:18 AM
Not Mortari.
It's funny how this car is quite known, it is present at all the major events but every time it's described as Ermini.
If you look at Ermini's new official website, you won't find it and the old one had a some of Ermini engined cars, but it wasn't there either.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on February 05, 2014, 09:27:59 AM
Not Mortari.
It's funny how this car is quite known, it is present at all the major events but every time it's described as Ermini.
If you look at Ermini's new official website, you won't find it and the old one had a some of Ermini engined cars, but it wasn't there either.

It is pictured on 3 or 4 sites I've found, but none of them mention who commissioned it..
Still looking but so far have drawn a blank.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on February 05, 2014, 10:46:53 AM
Not Mortari.
It's funny how this car is quite known, it is present at all the major events but every time it's described as Ermini.
If you look at Ermini's new official website, you won't find it and the old one had a some of Ermini engined cars, but it wasn't there either.

Was the person who commissioned it Italian?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 05, 2014, 10:57:35 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on February 05, 2014, 11:22:36 AM
Marzotto?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 05, 2014, 12:53:10 PM
Not him.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on February 05, 2014, 02:46:38 PM
Number 18 should be a Fiat 1100 Nardi; I hope you are not after something more, because I haven't found anything more.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 06, 2014, 03:56:22 PM
Number 18 should be a Fiat 1100 Nardi; I hope you are not after something more, because I haven't found anything more.
Not Nardi.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 08, 2014, 05:02:10 AM
#11 is now unlocked.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on February 11, 2014, 04:50:18 AM
Is the full name of et3 an Ermini 357 Sport, from 1955?
Nope.

What about an Ermini Sport Competizione 1100 then (also from 1955)?
It's not what I'm looking for. There is a name missing, the name of the person who built it.

I've spent a lot of time trying to find more out about this car.  It's actually pictured on numerous sites but is always simply captioned as an Ermini Sport Competizione 1955, obviously because that's how it's entered into events; but I know it's not actually an Ermini!
It seems that the frame was originally built by a mechanic called Righini and differs completely from the normal Ermini frame.  At some stage (whether originally or not I don't now) it was fitted with a Type 114 Ermini 1100 engine and was given the body which was actually the first Frua body fitted to an Ermini 357 (see picture below of it back in the mid 1950s).
Other than that I haven't been able to find anything else out (but I am still looking!)
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 11, 2014, 06:07:49 AM
Is the full name of et3 an Ermini 357 Sport, from 1955?
Nope.

What about an Ermini Sport Competizione 1100 then (also from 1955)?
It's not what I'm looking for. There is a name missing, the name of the person who built it.

I've spent a lot of time trying to find more out about this car.  It's actually pictured on numerous sites but is always simply captioned as an Ermini Sport Competizione 1955, obviously because that's how it's entered into events; but I know it's not actually an Ermini!
It seems that the frame was originally built by a mechanic called Righini and differs completely from the normal Ermini frame.  At some stage (whether originally or not I don't now) it was fitted with a Type 114 Ermini 1100 engine and was given the body which was actually the first Frua body fitted to an Ermini 357 (see picture below of it back in the mid 1950s).
Other than that I haven't been able to find anything else out (but I am still looking!)
Intersting! According to my source, the frame was built by an unknow worker of a famous company during week-ends. The body was by an unknown coachbuilder from the same place of the person who commissioned those works and the engine has always been a brand new Ermini one.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on February 11, 2014, 07:33:50 AM
Is number 10 based on Fiat 1100/103?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on February 11, 2014, 07:38:22 AM
Intersting! According to my source, the frame was built by an unknow worker of a famous company during week-ends. The body was by an unknown coachbuilder from the same place of the person who commissioned those works and the engine has always been a brand new Ermini one.

Email sent!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: thorax on February 11, 2014, 09:14:09 AM
# 11: Fiat 500 C Beccaria?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 11, 2014, 12:23:33 PM
Is number 10 based on Fiat 1100/103?
Not a 1100\103.
# 11: Fiat 500 C Beccaria?
Take a look at Reply #11, 13 and 17...this one is practically solved. Not locked anymore, BTW.  ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on February 12, 2014, 04:16:16 AM
Intersting! According to my source, the frame was built by an unknow worker of a famous company during week-ends. The body was by an unknown coachbuilder from the same place of the person who commissioned those works and the engine has always been a brand new Ermini one.

Email sent!

A bit more info:
The 1954 Frua body of et3 was originally fitted to an Ermini 357 as said before, and was raced by a driver named John Buoncristiani.  The body of this car was replaced by a Morelli body in 1955 (pictured below as it is now) but the puzzle car body was fitted to the frame made by Righini quite a bit later (perhaps only in the 1960s) when the 1100 Ermini engine was fitted too;  I still can't say who commissioned the building of this illegitimate car though.

Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on February 12, 2014, 04:26:14 AM
# 11: Fiat 500 C Beccaria?
Take a look at Reply #11, 13 and 17...this one is practically solved. Not locked anymore, BTW.  ;)
#11 was built in 1948 by Remo Gattai, owner of the Garage Rondine in Prato (FI). It had motorcycle fenders at the beginning and later faired fenders by the 1951 regulation. The car was equipped with a Lancia Ardea engine, reduced to 750cc to compete in this category and a 5-speed gearbox.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: thorax on February 12, 2014, 09:27:57 AM
# 13: Urania?
# 6: Giai Speciale (1949)?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: thorax on February 12, 2014, 09:44:28 AM
# 18: Fiat 1100 Nardi
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 12, 2014, 02:54:15 PM
Intersting! According to my source, the frame was built by an unknow worker of a famous company during week-ends. The body was by an unknown coachbuilder from the same place of the person who commissioned those works and the engine has always been a brand new Ermini one.

Email sent!

A bit more info:
The 1954 Frua body of et3 was originally fitted to an Ermini 357 as said before, and was raced by a driver named John Buoncristiani.  The body of this car was replaced by a Morelli body in 1955 (pictured below as it is now) but the puzzle car body was fitted to the frame made by Righini quite a bit later (perhaps only in the 1960s) when the 1100 Ermini engine was fitted too;  I still can't say who commissioned the building of this illegitimate car though.

I have a different story and now I can share it: Mr. Buoncristiani had a couple of Sports built for him in the 50s...This one had a chassis mady by a Piaggio employer and the body (that body) made by an unknown coachbuilder of his place.
I know your source is quite reliable but mine is too! I'm not home but I'll try to translate my source later.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 12, 2014, 03:07:01 PM
# 11: Fiat 500 C Beccaria?
Take a look at Reply #11, 13 and 17...this one is practically solved. Not locked anymore, BTW.  ;)
#11 was built in 1948 by Remo Gattai, owner of the Garage Rondine in Prato (FI). It had motorcycle fenders at the beginning and later faired fenders by the 1951 regulation. The car was equipped with a Lancia Ardea engine, reduced to 750cc to compete in this category and a 5-speed gearbox.
Sorry, I forgot to add Reply 39:
Quote
#et11 : a Giaur  750 sport ?
Not Giaur.
#11 : According to my source this car was built in 1948 by Remo Gattai, using a Fiat Topolino chassis and a Lancia Ardea engine with a reduced capacity of 750cc.
Ok nearly there.
As I told Mekubb, I need to names: Remo Gattai is the key for both these names.
1 of this was Rondine (or better 'Garage Rondine'). What about the 2nd? Locked for mekubb and João
It's all correct, but Remo Gattai can be associated with another name too. It's not a person but a firm's name.
You can find it online too. Not locked.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 12, 2014, 03:12:17 PM
# 13: Urania?
# 6: Giai Speciale (1949)?
# 18: Fiat 1100 Nardi
#13: Not Urania
#6: already found by Targhediferro.
#18: Not Nardi
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on February 12, 2014, 03:12:45 PM
It's all correct, but Remo Gattai can be associated with another name too. It's not a person but a firm's name.
You can find it online too. Not locked.
Motor RG?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 12, 2014, 03:15:06 PM
It's all correct, but Remo Gattai can be associated with another name too. It's not a person but a firm's name.
You can find it online too. Not locked.
Motor RG?
Yes!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 08, 2014, 04:18:10 AM
#15: Not an obscure name. Not named after its builder. Later designs were quite distinctive.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on August 26, 2014, 12:08:35 PM
#15: Not an obscure name. Not named after its builder. Later designs were quite distinctive.

I'm sure 90% of you know this name...there's a clue about it in this very puzzle...take a look at the pictures...
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 13, 2014, 03:32:01 PM
#15: Not an obscure name. Not named after its builder. Later designs were quite distinctive.

I'm sure 90% of you know this name...there's a clue about it in this very puzzle...take a look at the pictures...
Let me rephrase that: in 1 picture, there is another car from the same workshop...and it's quite known!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 23, 2014, 04:18:26 AM
In 1 pic you should recognize in the background another etceterini...N.15 cames from the same workshop.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 23, 2014, 04:27:07 AM
Looking at all those pics, in the background you can see:
Just a wheel in one pic
the front of another etceterini
the back of another etceterini
the back of the etceterini on the mirror
the side of a Fiat
the front of another etceterini
the front of another car
3 cars in a parking lot (an Alfa a Fiat and a Lancia)
a shelby mustang
the front of another etceterini

In all the other pics there can't be seen another car...now there are only 4 pics where you can see another etceterini and only 1 is quite easy and fitting these clues: "Not an obscure name. Not named after its builder. Later designs were quite distinctive...I'm sure 90% of you know this name... it's quite known"

I won't lock it.



Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Iluvatar on November 23, 2014, 08:58:44 AM
In all the other pics there can't be seen another car...now there are only 4 pics where you can see another etceterini and only 1 is quite easy and fitting these clues: "Not an obscure name. Not named after its builder. Later designs were quite distinctive...I'm sure 90% of you know this name... it's quite known"
... Ala d'Oro?? ... in the background of #9...
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 23, 2014, 10:15:00 AM
Yes....n.15 is an Ala d'Oro.
Which one? Open to all.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Iluvatar on November 24, 2014, 12:14:26 PM
Yes....n.15 is an Ala d'Oro.
Which one? Open to all.
I try with Fiat 750 Ala d'Oro... ???
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 24, 2014, 01:13:00 PM
Not 750...
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: mekubb on November 24, 2014, 03:17:37 PM
#11 Fiat 1100 Ala d'Oro ?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: mekubb on November 24, 2014, 03:18:54 PM
#11 Fiat 1100 Ala d'Oro ?
Sorry, I meant #15...
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 24, 2014, 04:02:49 PM
#15 is not Fiat powered.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on November 25, 2014, 01:56:48 AM
 Is number 7  Lancia Ardea based?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 25, 2014, 04:17:23 AM
#7 - Not Lancia-based.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Iluvatar on November 26, 2014, 01:34:47 PM
#15 maybe with BMW engine? 500cc?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 27, 2014, 05:08:28 PM
Not BMW...
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on November 28, 2014, 04:32:13 AM
I'm surprised No 7 has only attracted one answer.
Is it a Gilco-Fiat 1100?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 28, 2014, 06:46:52 AM
I'm surprised No 7 has only attracted one answer.
Is it a Gilco-Fiat 1100?
I thought it was one of the first to go...I only know the engine and it's a Fiat-XXXXXXXXX (don't count the Xs). Not Gilco (that I'm aware of...)
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on November 28, 2014, 07:10:37 AM
Fiat 1400?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 28, 2014, 07:45:35 AM
Not a number but (I suppose) it refers to its engine...if Fiat-Gilco means engine-chassis probably in this case it stands for Fiat-xxxxxxxx : Chassis-Engine.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on November 28, 2014, 08:13:12 AM
Giannini?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on November 28, 2014, 08:25:36 AM
Siata or more obscure?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 28, 2014, 05:48:16 PM
Not Giannini, Siata and better known!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on November 28, 2014, 07:10:09 PM
OSCA?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 29, 2014, 05:20:59 AM
Not Osca.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on November 29, 2014, 11:18:09 AM
Moretti?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on November 29, 2014, 02:14:27 PM
Is n.7 a Fiat-Bmw ?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Iluvatar on November 30, 2014, 09:37:00 AM
Is n.7 a Fiat-Bmw ?
Fiat-Lancia?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 30, 2014, 03:49:37 PM
Moretti?
Not Moretti
Is n.7 a Fiat-Bmw ?
Yes! That is all I know!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on November 30, 2014, 05:50:22 PM
I guessed Fiat-Bmw, because there's another barchetta Fiat-Bmw, with a certain look-alike style, prepared by Furia. Maybe the quiz car is a sister, or step-sister, of that car.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 19, 2014, 04:56:46 AM
The Ala d'oro was also in the background of another car, #9: that car is for sale these days...it shouldn't be too hard if you read the 1st clue:
Quote
2 cars are not strictly speaking etceterinis.: Giai Spéciale 1949 & ?

..oh, and we already had here a car by them!  ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 26, 2014, 04:54:34 AM
The Ala d'oro was also in the background of another car, #9: that car is for sale these days...it shouldn't be too hard if you read the 1st clue:
Quote
2 cars are not strictly speaking etceterinis.: Giai Spéciale 1949 & ?

..oh, and we already had here a car by them!  ;)

GIVEAWAY CLUE: Now is the right time to consider this clue...again...
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 27, 2015, 07:43:43 AM
The Ala d'oro was also in the background of another car, #9: that car is for sale these days...it shouldn't be too hard if you read the 1st clue:
Quote
2 cars are not strictly speaking etceterinis.: Giai Spéciale 1949 & ?

..oh, and we already had here a car by them!  ;)

GIVEAWAY CLUE: Now is the right time to consider this clue...again...
You are not reading between the lines...but not even the lines, here!
Oh, and BTW, we had 2 of the cars by them!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2015, 03:51:19 AM
The same day I wrote that reply, there was a quiz solved featuring a car bodied by them.
I won't lock it, all details for this (extremely easy) point!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on February 03, 2015, 07:09:59 AM
Officine Grazia?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2015, 07:26:29 AM
Nope...
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 04, 2015, 01:12:50 PM
The Ala d'oro was also in the background of another car, #9: that car is for sale these days...it shouldn't be too hard if you read the 1st clue:
Quote
2 cars are not strictly speaking etceterinis.: Giai Spéciale 1949 & ?

..oh, and we already had here a car by them!  ;)

GIVEAWAY CLUE: Now is the right time to consider this clue...again...

I double checked and I confirm: the same day I wrote this reply, a car bodied by them was solved. ..and there's a reason for quoting also that other clue.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on February 04, 2015, 01:21:18 PM
Tassy & Glenat?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 05, 2015, 02:29:10 AM
Yes!
I can't lock it, but it won't take too long.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on February 05, 2015, 03:18:30 AM
Can't find anything, so I have to guess: Simca resp. Fiat 1100-based?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 05, 2015, 03:25:57 AM
Simca is right. It was for sale not long ago ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 19, 2015, 05:11:49 AM
The same day I wrote that reply, there was a quiz solved featuring a car bodied by them.
I won't lock it, all details for this (extremely easy) point!
Simca is right. It was for sale not long ago ;)
New puzzles are waiting..time to get rid of old ones...
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 19, 2015, 05:56:05 AM
Giveaway week:

1- Under restoration. Builder is active in racing business, expecially with Lancia.
2- I have a name for it, and it's very, very well known!
5- This is not easy. It was built in the South of Italy. The place may be of some help.
9- This is practically solved!
10- Later he built some Karts, F3 & Formula Ford
16- It's featured in a certain book, but....
18- Quite hard. I have the name of its pilot, don't know if it's the builder.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 23, 2015, 08:35:37 AM
Giveaway week:

1- Under restoration. Builder is active in racing business, expecially with Lancia.
    His 1st name is the same of a very, very known man in the States, oh and it's Italian (no lock for it)
2- I have a name for it, and it's very, very well known!
    Bertone, Zagato, Viotti, Fissore, Motto, Nardi, Farina, Abarth...they all had to something to do with this maker. It doesn't end with 'ini' and to get the point you'll have to tell me at least the base car (guess what? it's a Fiat!)
5- This is not easy. It was built in the South of Italy. The place may be of some help.
    Deepest south, but not on an Island. A coachbuilder with the same name and from the same city (I suspect he may be the same builder) worked on a fiat 600 too...adding 2 doors. Just the name and engine (quite easy!) for this point!
9- This is practically solved! Tassy et Glenat's Simca XxXX Xxxxxxxxx 19XX (you can count the x!)
10- Later he built some Karts, F3 & Formula Ford.
  There's a pic of 1 of his Formula car in a book by one of our Autopuzzles' members...builder was from a place near Perugia.
16- It's featured in a certain book, but....
18- Quite hard. I have the name of its pilot, don't know if it's the builder.

I'd like to have it solved soon... ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on February 23, 2015, 08:40:59 AM
9: Tassy & Glenat's Simca 1100 Barquette 1952?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 23, 2015, 08:45:23 AM
9: Tassy & Glenat's Simca 1100 Barquette 1952?
Slightly before than 52. Locked for you. If you can't find the right year, I'll reveal. Point is yours.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on February 23, 2015, 08:54:48 AM
1950?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 23, 2015, 08:58:11 AM
According to the seller, it was a '38 Barchetta, but its 1st documented races are all from 1949.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on February 23, 2015, 09:08:50 AM
Is number 2 a Moretti derived from a Fiat 500?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 23, 2015, 09:09:47 AM
Not Moretti but on the right path...
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on February 23, 2015, 11:29:54 AM
Well...Ermini and Stanguellini are out, because they're "...ini";  I try Siata.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 23, 2015, 11:45:02 AM
And another one is gone. I have it as 500a by Siata...but I  have some doubts....I'll post the unmodified pic soon
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on February 23, 2015, 04:06:02 PM
Is number 5 a Giordano's job? The quiz car looks like to be rear-engines...so perhaps it could be another Fiat 600 derived?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 23, 2015, 05:31:32 PM
Is number 5 a Giordano's job? The quiz car looks like to be rear-engines...so perhaps it could be another Fiat 600 derived?
Almost there, not a 600...much older.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on February 24, 2015, 06:35:38 AM
A rear mounted Fiat 508 engine?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 24, 2015, 06:37:59 AM
 ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 24, 2015, 06:40:12 AM
And the Siata (or not?).
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on February 24, 2015, 06:46:17 AM
Number 5 looks like to have a fiberglass body, and the dashboard is quite...howful, Yes, howful gives the idea! ...is it perhaps one of those cars with no picture dated before 2010?
Looking it a bit closer, I think those are the wheels of a Fiat 500...so I would call it "Fiat 500 Gamine (with rear lights from the Giardiniera) dressed up as a 1100 Giordano!"
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 24, 2015, 06:57:54 AM
Yes, a tuned Gamine was my idea too, but the place where I took this pic captured it like that.
Quote
...is it perhaps one of those cars with no picture dated before 2010?
Which pics are you referring to?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on February 24, 2015, 07:49:09 AM
Yes, a tuned Gamine was my idea too, but the place where I took this pic captured it like that.
Quote
...is it perhaps one of those cars with no picture dated before 2010?
Which pics are you referring to?
I was referring to those car with no reliable history, coming out from the fog...of a modern garage...(we have  ;) more Fiat 508 S Coppa d'Oro today than in 1933!) not to a particular picture. ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 24, 2015, 08:04:49 AM
Oh those  ;D.
I don't have much info about that car and the contact I had about those etceterini is ...no-more in contact.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 27, 2015, 04:02:20 AM
#13 is still out there, alive abd kicking but was slightly different before...not Fiat-powered.
#15 was half solved...
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on February 27, 2015, 04:17:38 AM
#15 by Ala d'Oro?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 27, 2015, 04:26:34 AM
Yes, the engine is still to be found...
Iluvatar & Mekubb already tried a couple of them.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on February 27, 2015, 04:33:46 AM
Lancia?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 27, 2015, 04:50:08 AM
Not Lancia.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on February 27, 2015, 05:09:33 AM
Giannini?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 27, 2015, 05:13:16 AM
Not Giannini.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on February 27, 2015, 05:13:42 AM
Italian engine?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 27, 2015, 05:57:24 AM
Nope  ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on February 27, 2015, 06:36:45 AM
German engine?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 27, 2015, 09:24:35 AM
Not German engine.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on February 27, 2015, 09:25:57 AM
British engine?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on February 27, 2015, 09:57:22 AM
I found the picture of number 16; there is no caption but the race in 1952...could it be a Siata 300 TC based?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 27, 2015, 02:12:25 PM
British engine?
Yes!
I found the picture of number 16; there is no caption but the race in 1952...could it be a Siata 300 TC based?
Not Siata based..there's no surprise in the engine. The car later become something different.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on February 27, 2015, 02:19:08 PM
#15 Cooper-engined?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 27, 2015, 02:27:34 PM
About #16, I lost my old notes in my HD. I've been able to find my sources back but probably the last part of the clue ("The car later become something different") is not correct.
#15 Cooper-engined?
Not Cooper, but there is a strong connection with Cooper.
#15 is locked for you.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on February 27, 2015, 02:35:34 PM
JAP-engined?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 27, 2015, 02:42:26 PM
And that JAP engine was taken from a Cooper!
Another one is gone!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on February 27, 2015, 05:53:23 PM
I found the picture of number 16; there is no caption but the race in 1952...could it be a Siata 300 TC based?
Not Siata based..there's no surprise in the engine. The car later become something different.
So I suppose that the base is  Fiat 500A...Do you look for the builder of this Barchetta?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 28, 2015, 06:52:02 AM
I have it as a 1100, but I'm after its builder or its pilot.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on February 28, 2015, 03:09:49 PM
Di Stefano?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 28, 2015, 03:53:11 PM
Di Stefano?
Dixxxxxx.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Wendax on February 28, 2015, 04:48:52 PM
Is the driver Salvatore Tornatore?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 28, 2015, 05:21:38 PM
The driver is Dixxxxxx.
The car is a Xxxxxxxx 1100 Sport.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on March 01, 2015, 09:21:23 AM
Dicosimo?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 03, 2015, 03:21:26 AM
Dicosimo?
Not that. If you know where to look there are just 2 possible names... ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on March 03, 2015, 06:32:32 AM
Dionisio?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 03, 2015, 06:56:09 AM
Not him.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on March 03, 2015, 03:26:21 PM
Diloreto?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 03, 2015, 04:21:38 PM
Nope.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on March 23, 2015, 05:58:05 AM
Dixxexxx
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on July 08, 2015, 11:22:00 AM
I've spent hours digging for the remaining ones and the only pictures I've been able to come up with are for No. 18 and 16.
However, No. 18 is described as a Fiat 1100 Nardi, and you've already said that's wrong..  It's also said to be driven by Soldano, which hasn't been mentioned before.

There is also a picture of No. 16 on the same page (reproduced below) but I can see no mention of the car's name, just that it was being driven in the Catania-Etna 1952..
Could it be a Giaur?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 08, 2015, 12:45:03 PM
I'll take the opportunity to sum-up this puzzle and add some clues.
Unfortunately when I broke my HD, I lost some few info...however I've been able to find back some bits:

et1: Still out there, being restored by the company that still bear his name. (I had a pic but it's gone). Not a totally obscure name because he is featured in several books (2 of them by an Autopuzzles' member), but not for this 750 sport..
et10: This one has many points in common with the one above..it is still out there (pic will follow), the builder is featured in one book by an AP member for a different kind of car and they are from the same place (more or less 40Km) and their names end the same way too...but this is a 1100!
et13: This one is featured in Curami's book, but in a different form. He built just this 750 but not Fiat based.
et16: I lost what I found about this, but I've been able to recap...the car is called Xxxxxxxx 1100 (except for 1 letter too much, it's just the same of a better known etceterini) and the pilot is Dixxexrx.
et18: This 1100 was built by P. Oxxxxxo.


 
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 08, 2015, 12:53:13 PM
I've spent hours digging for the remaining ones and the only pictures I've been able to come up with are for No. 18 and 16.
However, No. 18 is described as a Fiat 1100 Nardi, and you've already said that's wrong..  It's also said to be driven by Soldano, which hasn't been mentioned before.

There is also a picture of No. 16 on the same page (reproduced below) but I can see no mention of the car's name, just that it was being driven in the Catania-Etna 1952..
Could it be a Giaur?
#18: The 1100 driven by Soldano should be Vittorio Jemma's 1100 Sport...it looked like the so called Cisitalia-Colombo (see pic).
#16: Not Giaur. The event is right...I should check the year.

#10: it was running last year.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on July 16, 2015, 09:48:28 AM
Is perhaps number #18 a Cisitalia-Abarth derived, by Soldano?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 16, 2015, 10:42:23 AM
I was replying to Carnut's guess, that was suggesting Soldano as a pilot.
This is the clue about #18: This 1100 was built by P. Oxxxxxo.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on July 17, 2015, 10:03:25 AM
Perhaps #16 is an Ermini (or has that question been asked already..)?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 18, 2015, 03:11:40 PM
et1: Still out there, being restored by the company that still bear his name. (I had a pic but it's gone). Not a totally obscure name because he is featured in several books (2 of them by an Autopuzzles' member), but not for this 750 sport. Fiat based cars....
et10: This one has many points in common with the one above..it is still out there (pic will follow), the builder is featured in one book by an AP member for a different kind of car and they are from the same place (more or less 40Km) and their names end the same way too...but this is a 1100!
et13: This one is featured in Curami's book, but in a different form. He built just this 750 but not Fiat based.
et16: I lost what I found about this, but I've been able to recap...the car is called Xxxxxxxx 1100 (except for 1 letter too much, it's just the same of a better known etceterini) and the pilot is Dixxexrx.
et18: This 1100 was built by P. Oxxxxxo.


These are the clues so far.
#16 is not an Ermini.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on July 18, 2015, 03:17:14 PM
Pasqualini (#16)?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 18, 2015, 03:22:10 PM
Not Pasqualini.
Rxxxxxxi.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on July 21, 2015, 08:17:29 AM
Not Pasqualini.
Rxxxxxxi.

Roselli?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 21, 2015, 09:21:03 AM
That is the name of the better known one. Just one more letter away...
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: oko94 on July 21, 2015, 10:24:36 AM
#16 : Rovelli ?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on July 21, 2015, 10:43:23 AM
#18----P.Orlando?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 21, 2015, 11:22:45 AM
#16: not Rovelli but Roselli is pretty close and only 1 letter is missing, not different. Sorry oko94 I didn't write it but I'll consider it locked for Carnut, since he was really there. ;)
#18: Orlando is correct!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on July 21, 2015, 12:14:50 PM
Thanks!
Must be Rosselli then?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 21, 2015, 12:47:50 PM
Thanks!
Must be Rosselli then?
...and it's correct!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on July 22, 2015, 06:25:58 AM
Thanks!
Must be Rosselli then?
...and it's correct!

Progress!
I've gone through hundreds and hundreds of race entries to try to find the driver's name but nothing matches DIxxExRx so it'll have to be guesswork..
Dilletri?

I have found one that fits: Dipietro
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 22, 2015, 03:56:11 PM
Thanks!
Must be Rosselli then?
...and it's correct!

Progress!
I've gone through hundreds and hundreds of race entries to try to find the driver's name but nothing matches DIxxExRx so it'll have to be guesswork..
Dilletri?

I have found one that fits: Dipietro

Not Dipietro.
DIxxExRx : all vowels and 1 'F'.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on July 23, 2015, 05:21:20 AM
Hmmm .  Is it actually an Italian name?  I would assume it is if it's all vowels except 1 'F', but I've gone through a few different websites of Italian surnames and can find nothing that fits.  If the 3rd letter is F then the 4th must be A,E,I,O or U but there's nothing fits that; if the 4th letter is F then the 3rd must be A,E,I,O or U but nothing fits that either!  So it must be a very rare name indeed.

So I'll have to make it up: how about Diafeira or Diafeiri?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 23, 2015, 05:49:51 AM
 :applause: :applause:
Fiat 1100 Rosselli driven by Carmine Diaferia. I now realized that my source have its name mispelt (Diafeira) but it's him.

et1: Still out there, being restored by the company that still bear his name. (I had a pic but it's gone). Not a totally obscure name. He is not known for this 750 sport, but you can find his name in a book about Fiat 850 derivates for a Formula 850 and a book about 600 derivates for a tuned Giannini. He tuned Alfetta, Alpine and I think he is now working on Lancia.

et10: This one has many points in common with the one above..it is still out there, the builder is featured in one book about 850 derivates for a Formula 850, they are from the same place (more or less 40Km) and their names end the same way too...but this is a 1100!

et13: 750 not Fiat powered, from Teramo. Cxxxxxxi
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on July 23, 2015, 08:34:59 AM
Can't find many beginning with 'C' and even fewer that end in 'I' as well..

Centenari?  That was VW-powered rather than Fiat.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 23, 2015, 10:56:05 AM
Not VW-powered and not Centenari.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on July 23, 2015, 11:35:48 AM
Carnevalli?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 23, 2015, 11:43:44 AM
Not that.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on July 23, 2015, 11:46:30 AM
Lancia-based? Crepaldi?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 23, 2015, 11:56:16 AM
Not Crepaldi. Not an Italian engine.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on July 23, 2015, 11:59:15 AM
BMW engine?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 23, 2015, 12:00:44 PM
Yes!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: pnegyesi on July 24, 2015, 09:51:40 AM
Crivellari?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on July 24, 2015, 09:54:35 AM
Caproni?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 24, 2015, 11:22:22 AM
No x 2.
CxxxxxxI
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on July 24, 2015, 11:57:56 AM
No x 2.
CxxxxxxI

I take it it's an 8-letter name the.
How about Cipriani?
There really are an awful lot of 8-letter names beginning with C and ending in I...!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 24, 2015, 02:37:50 PM
CIXRXXXI
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: thorax on July 24, 2015, 06:19:21 PM
Cipriani?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 24, 2015, 06:22:29 PM
Not that...
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: targhediferro on July 24, 2015, 07:09:07 PM
Ciarelli?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on July 25, 2015, 06:17:37 AM
Ciarelli?
Yes! Mario Ciarelli's Bmw 750 sport.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 08, 2015, 11:56:28 AM
et1: Still out there, being restored by the company that still bear his name. (I had a pic but it's gone). Not a totally obscure name because he is featured in several books (2 of them by an Autopuzzles' member), but not for this 750 sport. Fiat based cars....
et10: This one has many points in common with the one above..it is still out there (pic will follow), the builder is featured in one book by an AP member for a different kind of car and they are from the same place (more or less 40Km) and their names end the same way too...but this is a 1100!

1. ______ani.
10. _____oni.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on September 08, 2015, 12:11:40 PM
1: Pagani?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 08, 2015, 12:21:56 PM
Pagani.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on September 08, 2015, 03:45:28 PM
Pagani.

Giuliani?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 08, 2015, 06:04:53 PM
Yes. Locked for you. Not a totally obscure 'Giuliani'.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on September 09, 2015, 05:27:12 AM
Yes. Locked for you. Not a totally obscure 'Giuliani'.

Thanks.
Must be Camillo Giuliani, who drove in various Targa Florios and other races in the early 1950s, mainly in Fiat 500 T750s but there was one race he entered in a Giaur 750 Sport but I can't find a picture of it (he never actually took part, which is probably why there are no pictures).  They didn't make a lot of Giaurs and I can't find one that looks exactly like your picture though one or two are a bit similar.  Is that it?  Or is it a Giuliani-Fiat?!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 09, 2015, 05:50:57 AM
It's not him. This Giuliani buit this 750 Sport and later became more known with his 'tuning' activity, working on Alfettas, Giannini, Alpine...but also at least 3 Formula 850.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on September 09, 2015, 07:29:12 AM
The only other Giulianis I can find are from a much later era - Ivano, Fulvio etc., but none from the era of the puzzle car.  They also seem to be involved with Lancias and maybe Alfettas too but that doesn't help.
I've tried to think round your clue about his 1st name being the same as a very, very well-known American but I'm struggling there too... Leonardo?
I've spent way too long on this already so please open it up.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 09, 2015, 08:14:40 AM
If you found the Lancia team, they are probably from his 'Officina', were this sport is under restoration.
I consider it solved, but I know it's far better to have it solved after a search rather than after a mere name-guessing process ;) .
There's no hurry, take your time and ask for clues if needed.
Giuliani senior built this sport, and the Officina was later run by his son.
None of them is named Ivano, Fulvio or Leonardo.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on September 09, 2015, 08:22:22 AM
Thanks!
I'll just ask for one clue for starters then: Is the famous American an actor, a politician or some other kind of well-know person, like a sports star?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on September 09, 2015, 10:43:03 AM
No 10: Moroni?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 09, 2015, 12:55:43 PM
Thanks!
I'll just ask for one clue for starters then: Is the famous American an actor, a politician or some other kind of well-know person, like a sports star?
I can't remember when I gave this clue but now I'm pretty sure it was 'Giuliani'.
#10: _o_oni.
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on September 09, 2015, 01:49:26 PM
Thanks!
I'll just ask for one clue for starters then: Is the famous American an actor, a politician or some other kind of well-know person, like a sports star?
I can't remember when I gave this clue but now I'm pretty sure it was 'Giuliani'.
#10: _o_oni.

OK; you said it was his first name but it would figure if it was Giuliani.
There are an awful lot of Italian surnames ending in ...oni but there aren't any on my long list which fit in with the above!
Back to the drawing board..
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on September 09, 2015, 06:27:42 PM
My next guess was going to be Pittoni but there's one too many letters there..
I did find a Formula 850 car built by a Poponi; that would fit?
Can't find anything else by him though..
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 09, 2015, 06:40:23 PM
Yes!  :applause: :applause: :applause:
Luigi Poponi from Todi!
Gino Giuliani was the other name...then Fernando 'Lallo' Giuliani took over his officina in Perugia.
(There was also a Giuliano Giuliani from Modena, BTW)

Tommorow I'll award the points and move it!

Well done and thank you!
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on September 10, 2015, 04:40:02 AM
Thanks for that!
Even with the answers information about these guys is still very hard to come by..
I take it the Officina Giuliano Giuliani is nothing to do with the one in Perugia?
Title: Re: PJ - 589 - Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 10, 2015, 05:37:34 AM
Giuliano Giuliani from Modena built a sport derived from an ATS and 3 Formula 850. There is something in Als15's book about 500 and in Rastrelli's book.
Gino and Fernando 'Lallo' Giuliani from Foligno built this Sport and was later active as a tuner for racing cars. You can read about in Als15's book about 850 and in an italian magazine, La Manovella.
They are not related and my hints were (as usual) a bit confusing...
But you made it!

Here you are the scores:

Targhediferro: 8 points
Carnut: 4 points
Wendax: 3 points
Iluvatar: 2 points
Mekubb: 1 point
Title: Re: Solved -PJ589- Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Carnut on September 10, 2015, 05:58:22 AM
Regarding No. 10 - I have found a picture of this car (must be the same one as the small picture you posted) where it's described as 'Fiat 508 C Poponi Barchetta Corsa 1954'.  I still haven't found your puzzle picture though..
Title: Re: Solved -PJ589- Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 10, 2015, 06:10:06 AM
Regarding No. 10 - I have found a picture of this car (must be the same one as the small picture you posted) where it's described as 'Fiat 508 C Poponi Barchetta Corsa 1954'.  I still haven't found your puzzle picture though..
My small pic was taken from that one. You won't find the other online ;)
Title: Re: Solved -PJ589- Etceterini Madness #2
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 24, 2017, 09:51:58 AM
There are some updates on this one too. I'll keep you posted.