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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2015 => Topic started by: Paul Jaray on September 30, 2014, 03:24:54 AM

Title: Solved -PJ626- MGR F3, 1969
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 30, 2014, 03:24:54 AM
What is this?
1 point for you.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: nicanary on September 30, 2014, 04:52:30 AM
Formule France?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 30, 2014, 05:39:59 AM
The few elements I have (builders, engine, where it was shown, etc...) says 'no' but there are some similarities.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Djetset on September 30, 2014, 05:43:40 AM
But it is Renault-based?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: faksta on September 30, 2014, 07:02:59 AM
It even has Renault badge on its body, if it's not just something similar.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 30, 2014, 07:14:32 AM
It is Renault-powered.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Djetset on September 30, 2014, 07:19:13 AM
Ah yes!  To be honest I hadn't even spotted the Renault badge on the side, but noticed that the wheels looked very Renault-ish.

Of course, a logo on the side of a race car doesn't always mean that it is using their engine (e.g. F1 Infinity Red Bull Racing, Lada, Leyland Williams, etc.)  ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: faksta on September 30, 2014, 07:57:18 AM
Since you mentioned the 'where it was shown' part, could it be not French, but, say, Belgian?

As for the logo-engine connection, I suspect back in the days it was easier to understand :P
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 30, 2014, 07:58:01 AM
Since you mentioned the 'where it was shown' part, could it be not French, but, say, Belgian?
You are half right!
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: faksta on September 30, 2014, 07:58:59 AM
Argentina?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on September 30, 2014, 08:06:44 AM
Wrong continent.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: faksta on October 01, 2014, 01:54:04 AM
So, European?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 01, 2014, 01:56:49 AM
Yes!
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: faksta on October 01, 2014, 01:59:41 AM
Would be surprised, but is it Italian?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 01, 2014, 04:15:57 AM
Yes!
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: faksta on October 01, 2014, 04:38:31 AM
Is the engine a Renault 8 956cc unit? Would make it fit into the F3 regulations of those years.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 01, 2014, 05:32:47 AM
According to my source it's a Renault-powered F3...no details about which engine, but I believe you are right.  ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: faksta on October 01, 2014, 05:54:31 AM
1966?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: faksta on October 01, 2014, 06:13:20 AM
Or a 1967 FC1000 of Franco Conti, by any chance? I don't know which engine it used, though.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: nicanary on October 01, 2014, 07:34:27 AM
The bodywork appears to be an attempt at a wedge shape, which became fashionable towards the 1969/71 period. I've checked the race entries for Italian F3 for that era, and there's nothing Renault powered. Earlier years had works Alpines, and the French BEP cars, but I can't imagine why an Italian constructor would use a Renault engine when it was clearly uncompetitive.

Was it ever raced?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: faksta on October 01, 2014, 07:45:37 AM
That's what puzzles me as well  :huh:
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 01, 2014, 04:35:40 PM
This car was shown in 1969 in a racetrack. I've never heard of it and I don't think it ever raced.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: faksta on October 02, 2014, 02:11:17 AM
Was it in Monza?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 02, 2014, 07:52:50 AM
Yes!
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: faksta on October 02, 2014, 08:06:52 AM
Sadly, that doesn't help much. I could only suppose now that the builder was based in Milano or around. Also, if there is a name mentioned, do you have any information on whether the builder was also a racing driver himself?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 03, 2014, 03:35:57 AM
There are 3 names involved.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: faksta on October 03, 2014, 04:04:33 AM
Did at least one of them race in Formula 3 in Italy before presenting this car?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 03, 2014, 04:48:54 AM
Those 3 names do not ring me any bell... if you can PM a link to a page with a list of pilots, I can check there. I did a search with each name plus 'F3' with no result.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: faksta on October 03, 2014, 06:33:41 AM
I don't have a definitive list of drivers, I wanted to use that information for further search. Looks like it wouldn't be fruitful, though :)
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 03, 2014, 08:08:31 AM
I made a search through wikipedia or similar sites...I thought you knew a site where you can find a list of pilots...I don't know how to verify...according to my source, they were 2 ex mechanics (1 for a known swiss pilot, 1 for a company I don't know) and a student.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: faksta on October 03, 2014, 10:17:06 AM
The Swiss pilot is Clay Regazzoni, by any chance?

Was one of the related names Enzo Giorla 'Dovina' then?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 03, 2014, 12:21:54 PM
I made a search through wikipedia or similar sites...I thought you knew a site where you can find a list of pilots...I don't know how to verify...according to my source, they were 2 ex mechanics (1 for a known swiss pilot, 1 for a company I don't know) and a student.
Not Regazzoni and Giorla.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: nicanary on October 04, 2014, 05:57:10 AM
Fredy Kessler, mechanic for Jurg Dubler?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 04, 2014, 07:20:03 AM
Fredy Kessler, mechanic for Jurg Dubler?
No & no.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: nicanary on October 04, 2014, 07:42:50 AM
I've found out how difficult it is to research details of mechanics of the time. I'm trying to focus on the Swiss driver - it could of course be Jo Siffert, or maybe Silvio Moser or Charles Voegele. I know the answer you need is the name of his mechanic, but if I can work out the driver, the rest will follow.

Did the mechanic you seek work for Jo Siffert back when he was a privateer?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 04, 2014, 07:57:33 AM
I've found out how difficult it is to research details of mechanics of the time. I'm trying to focus on the Swiss driver - it could of course be Jo Siffert, or maybe Silvio Moser or Charles Voegele. I know the answer you need is the name of his mechanic, but if I can work out the driver, the rest will follow.

Did the mechanic you seek work for Jo Siffert back when he was a privateer?
Not Jo Siffert or Voegele  ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: nicanary on October 04, 2014, 08:19:20 AM
So - Beat Schenker ?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 04, 2014, 09:58:42 AM
So - Beat Schenker ?
Not him...all names sound Italian.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: faksta on October 07, 2014, 05:36:46 AM
After days of searching, I still can't find other Silvio Moser's mechanics but Beat Schenker and (probably, as I'm not sure that I read the Italian text correctly) either Aldo Pessina or his mother (?!).
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 10, 2014, 04:01:05 AM
Not Aldo Pessina or his mother...
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 19, 2014, 04:53:12 AM
3 letters, 1st on is 'M'.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: nicanary on December 19, 2014, 05:20:55 AM
The OP is trying to help us folks, so I reckon we could share information.

I have gone through all entry lists for F3 events in 1969 and 1970 in for Italy and southern France, and there is no mention of any car with three letters in the name starting with "M".

So the OP was probably correct - the car never raced, or certainly not in any important race. I suspect the builders quickly realised how uncompetitive it was.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 21, 2014, 06:28:45 AM
One of the builders was Michele de Guglielmo.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 27, 2015, 07:37:22 AM
Now just 2 letters are missing...
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Djetset on January 27, 2015, 07:40:39 AM
MAO?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on January 27, 2015, 07:45:05 AM
 ;)
One of the builders was Michele de Guglielmo.
MAO
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2015, 03:54:20 AM
One of the builders was Michele de Guglielmo.
3 letters, 1st on is 'M'.
Those are 2 different clues ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Wendax on February 03, 2015, 04:02:16 AM
MCG?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2015, 04:12:53 AM
Nope, but you got the clue right  ;)
MCG
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Wendax on February 03, 2015, 04:16:08 AM
MGP?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2015, 04:23:38 AM
MGP
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Wendax on February 03, 2015, 04:31:13 AM
MGA?  ;D
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2015, 04:45:28 AM
MGA
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Wendax on February 03, 2015, 04:58:07 AM
Pure guessing game now: MGB?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2015, 05:07:45 AM
Pure guessing game now: MGB?
I know, but since you are running alone, it won't take much  ;).
MGB
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Wendax on February 03, 2015, 05:11:09 AM
MGD?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2015, 05:51:39 AM
MGD
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Wendax on February 03, 2015, 05:53:54 AM
MGE?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: nicanary on February 03, 2015, 06:38:56 AM
 ;D

Keep going............. and good luck........
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2015, 07:26:54 AM
Not MGE.

..and it's open to anyone  ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Wendax on February 03, 2015, 07:31:25 AM
MGF?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2015, 07:39:08 AM
MGF
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Wendax on February 03, 2015, 08:01:50 AM
MGI?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2015, 08:47:19 AM
MGI
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Majeko on February 03, 2015, 08:56:25 AM
MGM(otorsport)?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: oko94 on February 03, 2015, 09:00:08 AM
MGH ?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Wendax on February 03, 2015, 09:14:06 AM
MGL?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2015, 09:46:08 AM
Not MGM, MGH or MGL.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: oko94 on February 03, 2015, 10:03:31 AM
MGK ?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2015, 10:06:23 AM
Not MGK.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: oko94 on February 03, 2015, 10:08:58 AM
MGN ?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Wendax on February 03, 2015, 10:09:40 AM
MGO?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2015, 10:18:18 AM
No & No.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: oko94 on February 03, 2015, 10:27:34 AM
MGQ ?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2015, 10:28:35 AM
Nope.
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: oko94 on February 03, 2015, 10:32:08 AM
MGJ ?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Wendax on February 03, 2015, 10:32:33 AM
MGR?
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 03, 2015, 11:42:19 AM
MGR?
:bow:
Title: Re: PJ - 626
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 05, 2015, 03:28:07 AM
Time to move it.
Well done, point for you!