Solved - QUIZ - Pic-Pic 16/20 HP 1913

[Paul Jaray]

Hi guys, what is that?

[Paul Jaray]

 

[grobmotorix]

Looks like one of those very luxurious swiss Pic-Pic automobiles, ca. 1919, built by Piccard-Pictet - wild guess...

http://www.autoquarterly.com/picpic.html

Edit: I think it is a Pic-Pic R2, ca. 1919

[Paul Jaray]

You are correct! It is a Pic-Pic but not a R2 from 1919...

[grobmotorix]

They say it is an R2...

http://arquivo.forum.autohoje.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=77979

and they show the same pic:

http://arquivo.forum.autohoje.com/uploaded/Blitz/2006513194339_www01.jpg

[Otto Puzzell]

I'd suggest it's a Pic-Pic R2, ca. 1913.

If by some remote chance I am correct, please award the point to grobmotorix . 

[Paul Jaray]

Hi, I saw that site, but my source reports that it is a PIC-PIC 16/20 hp from 1913, and I think that R2 model was the post-war version of the previous model with a bigger engine...2.8 litre for the 16\20 hp version and 2.9 for the later one...anyway, no doubt you found the car and KarnUtz found the year.....

[Tom_I]

Perhaps not the happiest of designs.

Can you identify this car? The make and approximate date will earn you a point, but any other details will be welcome.

[Tom_I]

Experts?

[vintman]

Looks very much like a Franco - Swiss Piccard-Pictet  cca 1919/20 when the new V radiator was introduced. Apparently fitted with a sleeve valve engine, 2.9/4 or 5.9/V8, fast and luxurious.  Designed in Geneva, built in France. PicPic Went bust very shortly after in 1920, reformed under Gnome et Rhone, and eventually died 1924.   

Regards Vintman

[Tom_I]

It is a Pic-Pic, but the source that the picture came from identifies this as an earlier car, one of the first to use the shouldered V-radiator.

However, I can't be sure that it's correct, and I have seen this particular car described as a different model, though with no date.

LOCKED for you in case you have any more thoughts on what this car might be, though I may have to declare it solved on the basis of insufficient reliable evidence.

[vintman]

Not really. I have a number of photos of an R2 and a Torpedo 4/6 person. Georgano mentions a veed radiator 30HP at the 1919 London Motor Show which had four wheel brakes as does this one. Also, that Gnome Rhone made an R2 of 16'45 being an updated 16'20.  This one looks a relatively small body.  Regards

Vintman

[vintman]

Guess could be in UK as it has wing mounted sidelights and what seems an RAC badge on the rad cap. Also, it is RHD. Perhaps the Show car?? Vintman

[Tom_I]

This doesn't match with the (limited) information I have, but as I said, I'm not sure of its accuracy.

I have awarded a point to Vintman for identifying the marque, but there is another point available for anyone who can provide further information on this particular car, whether it agrees with my source, or contradicts it.

I'll post the unmodifed picture tomorrow - it's stored on a different PC.

Open to everyone now.

[Wendax]

Is it the one of the three 1914 Pic-Pic Grand Prix cars which was rebodied as a road car?

[Tom_I]

I thought that there were only two cars built for the 1914 French Grand Prix, but you are right, this is claimed to be one of them, rebodied after WW1. I think this is quite plausible, as I have found two sources which talk of one of the GP cars being rebodied for road use.

I'll post a couple of pictures tomorrow when I can get to my other machine, but in the meantime, if anyone has anything else, we'd be glad to see it.

[Tom_I]

Here's the unmodified puzzle picture, and also a photo of the two cars entered in the 1914 French Grand Prix, neither of which finished.

The proportions of the chassis look similar, with very forward placement of the front axle, the wheels, brakes and hubs look right, and there's a glimpse of a rear spring hanger which matches.

I'll leave it for a day or so before moving it to "Solved", in case anyone has anything to add.

[Tom_I]

I'm moving this to "Solved", with a point to Wendax for the Grand Prix connection.

I have found another source which says that the rebodied GP car was owned by Claude Wallis of The Autocar, and that the body was built by London Improved Motor Coach Builders Ltd., of Pimlico, London SW1, but again, I can't be sure of the accuracy of this.

[Wendax]

Same puzzle: http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=2751

[Carnut]

Merged.