Again, no points for the coachbuilder.
For one point, please respond and identify this car and its driver.
up
up again
Of German manufacture?
Yes
Manufactured by an individual(s) rather than a production company?
No, built by a production company
Big & known name?
Yes
Daimler?
Right, just that it wasn't exactly a Daimler, but a ...
Mercedes was still a model name...it has to be Benz, then.
Well, I don't want to start a discussion here. It is a Mercedes.
I probably got your hint wrong, I thought it was an early Daimler racer (pre 1900), but since Mercedes appeared around 1901, I thought it was too 'new' and you meant Benz, because it was strongly related to Daimler and because they had some old 'rennwagen' too.
No need to start a discussion, I can always made some mistakes ;)
So that is a Mercedes and was built before 1905?
Yes
Post 1902?
Yes
Camille Jenatzy?
No
Is He a known person?
Mercedes driven by Otto Hieronimus in 1903?
Quote from: Paul Jaray on March 24, 2015, 12:18:27 PM
Is He a known person?
I hadn't heard of him before.
Quote from: 4popoid on March 24, 2015, 12:55:14 PM
Mercedes driven by Otto Hieronimus in 1903?
Year is correct, driver is not.
Try to find the location first. Then it will be easier to name the driver I guess.
Mercedes driven by Edgar Braun in 1903?
Not the name I have
Mercedes, at Nice, France, driven by Hermann Braun in 1903?
1903 Mercedes owned by William K. Vanderbilt, Jr. at Daytona Beach.
I think you have the right event ropat (Ormond-Daytona, January 30, 1904), but Gerd says he had never heard of the mystery driver, and I think that he would certainly know "Willy K.". There were several Mercedes cars at this meet. This car looks smaller, so I'll try: James C. Breeze on his 40 horse power Mercedes racer.
Edit: I have just discovered that Breeze (Breese?) was not entered in the 50 mile event, so I'll try: H. L. Bowden with his Mercedes 60 hp (he took second to Willy K).
You have the right venue, it is the 1903 Daytona Beach race. I still have a different name for the pictured driver.
Osborn Bright?
No
Samuel B.Stevens?
btw, we are looking for a Mercedes that raced at the 1903 event, (26th-28th March) Ormond Beach, Daytona, FL?
I just have the photo caption which says that it is a Mercedes 1903 at Daytona Beach driven by xxx. I'M quite sure that it is the same event where ropat's picture is from. If you can prove me wrong, you are welcome.
E.H.Fredericks?
Let me recap. So far, I believe we have ruled out:
Vanderbilt
Breeze (Breese?)
Bowden
Bright
Stevens
with Fredericks still to be determined.
All of the names of the Mercedes owner participants I believe have been mentioned, however some owners occasionally used drivers in certain events. I have a reference that says that Bowden used his "lightweight" chauffeur to drive his Mercedes in at least one event. The driver in the puzzle picture looks as if he could be "lightweight". So is the name you are looking for: Charles Basle.
Neither Fredericks nor Basle.
The puzzle picture with its description can still be found online.
Harry Harkness
No
J. I. Blair, or his driver M. W. Ehrlich?
No
Paul Sartori?
No
"To be nominated"? :lmao:
I'm beginning to have sincere doubts about the correctness of my source, I hope they didn't take the photographer's name as the driver's.
F. A. La Roche, or his driver ?. Neuman?
No
Bernard M. Shanley?
No
William Wallace?
No
L. Mooers, or his driver J. Tracy?
No
Proctor Smith?
No
W. G. Brokaw, or his driver M. G. Bernin?
No
Well I have run out of names that I have evidence were present at Ormond-Daytona, but I have three more names who were active in US competition using Mercedes cars in 1903. Is the mystery driver
W. H. Whipple?
No
My guesses would be Lawrance or Moulton...
Not the name I have
B. Seibel?
According to my source the name does begin with Sei, but it is not Seibel.
The only name that I have been able to find , so far, is Frank Siefert, but that is Sie, not Sei........
Not him
Seiberling?
No, shorter name
Shorter, Hmmmm. I'll start with 5 letters. How about Seitz?
Yes, point for you. Do you have any more information? I couldn't find anything.
To this point, I have been able to find nothing relevant regarding a Mr. Seitz. My submission of the name was pure guesswork based on your answers to previous submissions, and was determined by examining common short names beginning with the letters Sei. The only remote connection I have been able to locate so far is one J. A. Seitz who was a charter member (1903) of the Automobile Club of Syracuse (New York), and MAY have been connected with the H.H. Franklin Manufacturing Co. of that city.
Even knowing the answer, I have been unable to locate the original photograph. It might be a significant help if you could post the original photograph (assuming this one has been altered), including any pertinent verbiage (picture caption, accompanying text, etc.). I will continue to work on this, as time allows, but I am not very confident of uncovering significant additional information.