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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2016 => Topic started by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 04:05:17 AM

Title: Solved -PJ714- Graziella 125 by Fernando Caiani, 1954
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 04:05:17 AM
Do you know it?
All of you can play.

I need to know:


I'll award one or more points at the end.
Some detective work is needed but it's not impossible.

Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 16, 2016, 09:41:20 AM
Fiat-based ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 10:58:35 AM
Not Fiat bits there.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 16, 2016, 11:06:46 AM
Italian base though ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 11:07:33 AM
It is not based on any existing vehicle.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 16, 2016, 11:08:20 AM
Made in Italy though ? ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 11:10:02 AM
Yes!
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Carnut on February 16, 2016, 11:10:42 AM
Vespa?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 11:11:16 AM
Not a Vespa or related.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 16, 2016, 11:11:46 AM
Obscure coachbuilder ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 11:12:56 AM
The body was built by a known coachbuilder.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 16, 2016, 11:13:52 AM
Vignale ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 11:14:16 AM
Not Vignale.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Carnut on February 16, 2016, 11:15:09 AM
Allemano?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 16, 2016, 11:15:55 AM
Viotti ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 11:18:02 AM
Allemano
Vignale
Viotti


Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Carnut on February 16, 2016, 11:19:00 AM
Does it have 4 wheels?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 11:20:24 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Carnut on February 16, 2016, 11:21:20 AM
Front engine?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 11:26:17 AM
uhmm...it's not reported in my source, I can only guess, here.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Carnut on February 16, 2016, 11:33:13 AM
Related to Abarth?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 16, 2016, 11:37:11 AM
Coachbuilt by Monviso ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 12:29:41 PM
Not Abarth related and not bodied by Monviso.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 16, 2016, 12:47:11 PM
Bespoke engine or based on an existing one ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Allemano on February 16, 2016, 01:53:14 PM
Quote from: Carnut on February 16, 2016, 11:15:09 AM
Allemano?
I'm not allowed to help, sorry!
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 02:00:50 PM
Engine came from another vehicle.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Carnut on February 16, 2016, 03:15:13 PM
Quote from: Allemano on February 16, 2016, 01:53:14 PM
Quote from: Carnut on February 16, 2016, 11:15:09 AM
Allemano?
I'm not allowed to help, sorry!

:lmao:
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 03:20:30 PM
Ok, Allemano can play if he likes to. I know he would not take advantage with what he knows.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Carnut on February 16, 2016, 03:29:12 PM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 03:20:30 PM
Ok, Allemano can play if he likes to. I know he would not take advantage with what he knows.

Quite so!
I did see an answer from you that said "No it's not" but it only appeared briefly and promptly disappeared!
Was that an answer to my question about whether the car was bodied by Allemano?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 03:34:55 PM
Quote from: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 11:18:02 AM
Allemano
Vignale
Viotti



Still not.  ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Allemano on February 16, 2016, 04:05:15 PM
I'm pretty sure I saw it on a different source..
Boano?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 04:13:03 PM
Not Boano.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 16, 2016, 04:26:51 PM
Italian engine ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 04:29:26 PM
Yes!
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 16, 2016, 04:37:32 PM
Motorcycle engine ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 16, 2016, 04:38:11 PM
Yes! (more or less...)
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 17, 2016, 02:30:06 AM
Scooter engine ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 17, 2016, 03:32:36 AM
Yes!
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Carnut on February 17, 2016, 03:42:09 AM
Anything to do with Iso?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 17, 2016, 03:44:13 AM
Not that...
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 17, 2016, 03:53:35 AM
Lambretta engine ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 17, 2016, 04:00:31 AM
Yes, a Lambretta 125... and the first answer is placed.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Carnut on February 17, 2016, 04:57:39 AM
Is it called Dante?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: targhediferro on February 17, 2016, 04:58:29 AM
Is it by Zagato?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 17, 2016, 06:14:18 AM
Not Dante.
Not by Zagato but that's a good guess.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 17, 2016, 08:46:50 AM
Was Ercole Spada involved ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 17, 2016, 09:12:13 AM
Not Spada.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: targhediferro on February 17, 2016, 09:21:49 AM
Marcello Gandini?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 17, 2016, 09:46:32 AM
Not Gandini.
Let's say in those years Zagato and this coachbuilder used to dress the same kind of cars...
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 17, 2016, 10:16:32 AM
Motto ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Carnut on February 17, 2016, 10:18:18 AM
Monterosa bodywork?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 17, 2016, 12:02:43 PM
Motto is another good guess but it's not correct.
Not Monterosa.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 17, 2016, 12:23:31 PM
Colli ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Allemano on February 17, 2016, 01:24:08 PM
Boneschi?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 17, 2016, 01:49:17 PM
Zagato Colli & Motto are all equally good guesses but wrong.
Not Boneschi.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 17, 2016, 03:33:53 PM
Fantuzzi ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 17, 2016, 03:43:10 PM
Not Fantuzzi, that proves you got my hint.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: targhediferro on February 17, 2016, 04:34:34 PM
Savio?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 17, 2016, 04:35:39 PM
Not Savio.
Like Zagato, Colli, Motto & Fantuzzi he bodied mostly sports cars.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 17, 2016, 04:37:13 PM
Scaglietti ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 17, 2016, 04:45:12 PM
Not Scaglietti...I think it will be the next one, now!
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 17, 2016, 05:00:59 PM
Morelli ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 17, 2016, 05:31:04 PM
Bingo!
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 18, 2016, 02:34:52 AM
Was it built by Giotto Bizzarrini, who worked for Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Lamborghini and Iso ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 18, 2016, 03:32:13 AM
Not him, but one of the makers you named is indeed connected.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 18, 2016, 04:22:10 PM
Did he work for Alfa Romeo ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 18, 2016, 04:54:02 PM
Not for Alfa or any other maker directly.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 18, 2016, 05:02:32 PM
Did he work at a coachbuilder ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 19, 2016, 01:23:24 AM
A big clue: he did "components" for other makers.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 19, 2016, 01:48:04 AM
Conrero ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 19, 2016, 02:41:17 AM
Not Conrero
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 19, 2016, 02:42:11 AM
Abarth ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: targhediferro on February 19, 2016, 03:24:11 AM
Marelli?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 19, 2016, 03:55:23 AM
Not Abarth or Marelli.
He worked for several manufacturers and in the detail of their cars you can find this name. It is not totally obscure, but not a known one.
Other names providing the same part are much more known...
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 19, 2016, 10:59:59 AM
Was he providing some engine parts ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 19, 2016, 02:24:44 PM
not engine parts.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 19, 2016, 03:06:06 PM
Chassis parts ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 19, 2016, 04:00:26 PM
Quote from: oko94 on February 19, 2016, 03:06:06 PM
Chassis parts ?
Locked for 2 guesses.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 20, 2016, 06:51:33 AM
Tic-tac...tic-tac...  :)
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 21, 2016, 08:19:07 AM
Unlocked!
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Allemano on February 21, 2016, 03:58:47 PM
Gilco?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 21, 2016, 04:58:10 PM
Not Gilco.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: targhediferro on February 22, 2016, 06:55:19 AM
Taraschi?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 22, 2016, 07:06:44 AM
Not Taraschi.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 22, 2016, 07:09:49 AM
Approx year : 1953 ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 22, 2016, 07:25:09 AM
Almost...
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 22, 2016, 07:52:06 AM
1954 ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 22, 2016, 07:59:02 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 22, 2016, 08:15:30 AM
Was it supposed to be shown at the 1954 Torino Motor Show ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 22, 2016, 08:16:46 AM
Yes...where, precisely?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 22, 2016, 08:21:47 AM
Palazzina delle Belle Arti, Castello del Valentino ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 22, 2016, 08:23:43 AM
Nope...I mean, in which stand.
Not his own and a known one....we have also some pictures of it in that topic...
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 22, 2016, 08:47:58 AM
It was in Pier Luigi Nervi's Palazzo delle Esposizoni anyway :doh:

Was it supposed to be exhibited on a parts supplier stand ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 22, 2016, 08:49:30 AM
Nope, in a manufacturer's one.
A quite known and still active manufacturer.
I don't think it was there actualy, but those were the plans.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 22, 2016, 10:53:31 AM
Nardi ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 22, 2016, 12:40:06 PM
There are still many unanswered questions: who build it, where was it planned to be shown, which manufacturers was he associated with.
Nardi is not one of these answer.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 22, 2016, 12:51:32 PM
Was it planned to be shown on the stand of an Italian manufacturer ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 22, 2016, 02:19:00 PM
Yes, Italian manufacturer still active.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Iluvatar on February 22, 2016, 04:19:06 PM
Quote from: oko94 on February 18, 2016, 02:34:52 AM
Was it built by Giotto Bizzarrini, who worked for Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Lamborghini and Iso ?
Quote from: Paul Jaray on February 18, 2016, 03:32:13 AM
Not him, but one of the makers you named is indeed connected.
Lamborghini (Trattori, being in 1954)??
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 22, 2016, 05:03:57 PM
Not Lamborghini.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: oko94 on February 22, 2016, 05:13:40 PM
Ermini ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Iluvatar on February 23, 2016, 03:21:44 AM
Moretti?
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on February 23, 2016, 05:51:24 AM
Not Moretti.
Ermini is one of the names he was connected to.
Title: Re: PJ - 714 (Open to anyone but 2)
Post by: Paul Jaray on April 05, 2016, 11:34:24 AM
This one can be solved just guessing. There are no obscure names but one (that is not totally obscure after all).
It's a Lambretta-powered Morelli-bodied car that was planned to be shown at the '54 Turin Motor Show.
We are looking at a car made by a chassis supplier for some big names. It was connected with several know makers (like Ermini, but also bigger and still active ones), and 2 of these will lead to some web pages where it's written that the chassis was made by him. Another big name was the one that was going to host this little car in his stand (but it didn't, I think).
For the point I still need:
builder's name,
model's name
3 of these big names involved (1 of them, beside Ermini, was already guessed but went unnoticed...)

Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: oko94 on April 05, 2016, 01:03:21 PM
Is Ferrari one of the big names connected to the chassis supplier ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: Paul Jaray on April 05, 2016, 03:20:35 PM
Yes, Ferrari, Ermini and at least 2 more.
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: oko94 on April 05, 2016, 03:46:00 PM
Maserati ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: Paul Jaray on April 06, 2016, 04:11:19 AM
Quote from: oko94 on April 05, 2016, 03:46:00 PM
Maserati ?
Yes, Maserati...and the car was planned to be displayed in their stand!
Now, for the point:
Who built it?
Model's name?
I'll add the 4th name: Stanguellini, and if I'm not wrong OSCA too.
I'll lock it for you for 24 hrs.
Remember the name I'm after is a chassis builder's and it can be found also in the official webpage of one of those names (and this is a BIG clue).
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: oko94 on April 06, 2016, 09:24:42 AM
Is the builder Caiani ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: Paul Jaray on April 06, 2016, 04:24:19 PM
Yes!  :thumbsup:
Fernando Caiani (sometimes spelt Cajani) was the builder.
Locked for you to find the model name.
It was named after his daughter...(more clues later ;) )
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: oko94 on April 07, 2016, 01:35:29 AM
Wild guess : Monica ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: Paul Jaray on April 07, 2016, 03:25:27 AM
Not Monica.
Crucial clue:
If you look for that name, there's a good chance you'll see hundreds of bicycles.
There is not another maker/model with that name that I know of.
(this is you last clue...if you find the right name and you'll look for it, you'll knew you are right ;) )
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: oko94 on April 07, 2016, 07:06:51 AM
Atala ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: Paul Jaray on April 07, 2016, 08:40:12 AM
Not Atala. You can actually find persons with that name...
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: oko94 on April 07, 2016, 09:13:32 AM
Is it the name of an Italian bicycle manufacturer ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: Paul Jaray on April 07, 2016, 04:22:49 PM
Quote from: oko94 on April 07, 2016, 09:13:32 AM
Is it the name of an Italian bicycle manufacturer ?
Yes, very popular and not obscure at all.
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: oko94 on April 08, 2016, 12:00:31 PM
So far the only Italian bicycle manufacturers with a suitable name for a daughter that I've found are Gloria and Olympia but cars with these names exist... I keep on searching.

Is this bicycle manufacturer still active ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: Paul Jaray on April 09, 2016, 06:13:45 PM
Still active.
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: oko94 on April 11, 2016, 03:15:57 AM
Mara ?
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: Paul Jaray on April 11, 2016, 04:44:33 AM
Not Mara.
Unlocked  ;)
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: Hiawatha on April 11, 2016, 06:24:56 AM
Graziella?
Title: Re: PJ - 714
Post by: Paul Jaray on April 11, 2016, 06:55:30 AM
Facile per te, vero  ;) ?
Correct! Graziella is the name of Fernando's daughter. This is the only pic I have of it and hopefully more will arrive in the future.
2 points for oko94 and one for Hiawatha!
Title: Re: Solved -PJ714- Graziella 125 by Fernando Caiani, 1954
Post by: Hiawatha on April 11, 2016, 07:08:38 AM
Grazie,
OKO did all the hard work, I was  there just for the ride..
Title: Re: Solved -PJ714- Graziella 125 by Fernando Caiani, 1954
Post by: oko94 on April 11, 2016, 11:05:25 AM
Thanks for those two points.

I browsed the main Italian online bicycle shops and there was no trace of Graziella bikes there, so I guess you had to be Italian to know about them !