Please identify this vehicle for a point:
Arkley SS
Experts?
Pros?
From the USA?
French?
British?
Spanish?
Swiss?
Italian?
European ?
Fiat-based ?
Ferrari-based ?
Looks like a chopped about 250 California Spyder.
Quote from: nicanary on September 24, 2019, 03:51:15 PM
Looks like a chopped about 250 California Spyder.
Not that
Ferrari 166-based ?
Ferrari 212-based ?
Body by Fontana ?
Quote from: oko94 on September 24, 2019, 07:06:50 PM
Body by Fontana ?
The coachbuilder is unknown (most likely not Fontana, however).
Quote from: oko94 on September 24, 2019, 05:29:45 PM
Ferrari 212-based ?
By the way,
locked for you. I'm looking for anything that identifies the specific car. The chassis number would be the best (and easiest) way to identify it, but I will also accept name(s) of current/prior owner(s), additional photos of the same car, etc. You get three attempts before the unlock.
Quote from: gte4289 on September 24, 2019, 08:27:02 PM
Quote from: oko94 on September 24, 2019, 07:06:50 PM
Body by Fontana ?
The coachbuilder is unknown (most likely not Fontana, however).
The 212 register doesn't mention a chassis with a body made by an unknown coachbuilder. Was the puzzle car fitted with a body by a known coachbuilder at some point in its life ?
Quote from: oko94 on September 25, 2019, 04:48:31 AM
Quote from: gte4289 on September 24, 2019, 08:27:02 PM
Quote from: oko94 on September 24, 2019, 07:06:50 PM
Body by Fontana ?
The coachbuilder is unknown (most likely not Fontana, however).
The 212 register doesn't mention a chassis with a body made by an unknown coachbuilder. Was the puzzle car fitted with a body by a known coachbuilder at some point in its life ?
Yes
Is it chassis 0086E ?
Is it based on a 212 Inter chassis ?
Is the car currently fitted with a Vignale body ?
Quote from: oko94 on September 25, 2019, 10:45:05 AM
Is the car currently fitted with a Vignale body ?
Yes
Is it 0125EL ?
0147E ?
Quote from: oko94 on September 26, 2019, 12:53:49 AM
0147E ?
Sorry, but not that one either. Thread unlocked.
Is the car currently fitted with a fixed head coupé body ?
Quote from: oko94 on September 26, 2019, 01:44:04 AM
Is the car currently fitted with a fixed head coupé body ?
Yes
Was the first body fitted to this chassis a Vignale coupé body ?
Quote from: oko94 on September 26, 2019, 02:23:12 AM
Was the first body fitted to this chassis a Vignale coupé body ?
It was not.
Was the first body fitted to this chassis a Vignale body at all ?
0165 EL (originally fitted with "the ugliest Ferrari ever" body by Abbott...?
Quote from: oko94 on September 26, 2019, 03:43:14 AM
Was the first body fitted to this chassis a Vignale body at all ?
No
Quote from: Carnut on September 26, 2019, 04:09:50 AM
0165 EL (originally fitted with "the ugliest Ferrari ever" body by Abbott...?
No
0177 E which seems ot have spent most of its life in Switzerland? It's the kind of body they seem to like in Switzerland!
0249EL ?
]
Quote from: Carnut on September 26, 2019, 10:53:26 AM
0177 E which seems ot have spent most of its life in Switzerland? It's the kind of body they seem to like in Switzerland!
No, I'm afraid not. 0177/E is a well-known Pinin Farina cabriolet (the very first PF-bodied Ferrari!) and has never been rebodied.
It might help to narrow down the list of candidates if I tell you that there is disagreement over which body this car originally wore.
0273EU ?
Quote from: oko94 on September 26, 2019, 12:16:49 PM
0273EU ?
No, that one has always been a Vignale spyder (I have pics).
Quote from: gte4289 on September 26, 2019, 11:41:03 AM
It might help to narrow down the list of candidates if I tell you that there is disagreement over which body this car originally wore.
0205/EL?
Quote from: Carnut on September 26, 2019, 01:46:34 PM
Quote from: gte4289 on September 26, 2019, 11:41:03 AM
It might help to narrow down the list of candidates if I tell you that there is disagreement over which body this car originally wore.
0205/EL?
That's the one!
212 Inter chassis 0205/EL went to Ghia for coachwork, but there is debate over whether it left Ghia as a coupe or as a cabriolet. Italian actress Vivi Gioi purchased 0205/EL new (with the help of film producer Luigi Rovere) sometime in 1952.
After this, I have no records or photos of this car until 1958. In August of that year, industrialist Luciano Mochi Zamperoli (at the time, an Alfa Romeo dealer in Pesaro) advertised 0205/EL for sale in
Quattroroute magazine. The ad included a photo of the car fitted with an unconventional spyder body (the puzzle image).
The spyder body was scrapped in the 1960s (second image below) and the car remained naked for the next 35-40 years until David Cottingham installed the Vignale berlinetta body that the car still wears today.
As for whether 0205/EL was originally bodied as a coupe or cabriolet, I believe the evidence points to cabriolet coachwork, but more on that some other time.
Thanks.
The Register actually says:
Body Style: Coupé
Coachbuilder: Vignale
Also listed by Touring "0205(?)" as Touring Coupé
Hence I figured that was your clue: it was never clear if Vignale actually bodied it originally or if it was Touring.
Quote from: Carnut on September 26, 2019, 05:56:25 PM
Thanks.
The Register actually says:
Body Style: Coupé
Coachbuilder: Vignale
Also listed by Touring "0205(?)" as Touring Coupé
Hence I figured that was your clue: it was never clear if Vignale actually bodied it originally or if it was Touring.
???Which Register are you using?
Per Ferrari factory records:
0205 EL
212 Inter Ghia Berlinetta
Destinazione: Rovere, Italia
The question has always been whether Ghia installed the berlinetta body as planned, or installed a cabriolet body instead. (There are reasons for suspecting the latter may have happened.)
I got the info from the only complete record of Ferrari chassis numbers that existed in 1988, from Chassis 001S in 1947 to 11183 GT in 1968. The list stopped there because after that Ferrari production increased dramatically and there would have been pages and pages of identical factory-built (not coachbuilt) cars just with slightly different chassis numbers.
It was published in Ferrari - Forty Years On The Road by Stanley Nowak, in 1988.
Here's the relevant entry:
Sometime in the 1950s, Dick Merritt began taking notes on every Ferrari he encountered, to include chassis number, owner, etc. Dick had compiled all of this information in a single notebook, which he took with him on a trip to Maranello in the 1960s. He had hoped to gain access to the Ferrari Factory records, but that request was denied. However, Dick was permitted to leave the notebook with one of the factory reps. The rep went through the notebook and filled in much of the missing data by hand. Dick's notebook became famous among the Ferraristi and its contents formed the basis of what was "known" about the early Ferraris for the next 30 years. Dick and others like him (Stan Nowak, Gerald Roush, etc.), were maintaining individual databases, yet openly sharing information among them. I have a great deal of respect for all of these men. When I first became interested in tracking and documenting Ferraris, Stan's On the Road book was one of the best resources available.
But Hilary Raab surprised us all when he published his Ferrari Serial Numbers books in 2001. Hil had been granted full access to the factory records and permission to publish that information. Of course, the factory records themselves are not 100% complete and accurate, so the same is true of Hil's books. Even so, they're much more complete/accurate than the published sources that preceded them and they're invaluable tool for anyone just beginning to build their own register/database.
By the way, looking at that Nowak excerpt:
0196/A
- Completed on 15 Apr 1952, not 23 Jul 1952. (It competed in the Mille Miglia, Bern GP, Le Mans, and the Targa Florio -- all before 23 July.)
- Originally a Vignale spyder, not a coupe. (Documented by factory records and many, many photos.)
The very first Ferrari book I bought was the Fitzgerald, Merritt & Thompson, Third Revised and Enlarged Edition 1976.
It's well-thumbed and dog-eared but it's still one of the very best - if not THE best - Ferrari books ever!