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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2019 => Topic started by: Paul Jaray on October 13, 2017, 04:59:21 AM

Title: Solved -PJ747- D'Yrsan Tricycle, 1930
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 13, 2017, 04:59:21 AM
Do you know this car?
1 point for you.
(I hope my source is reliable on this!)
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Djetset on October 13, 2017, 05:17:26 AM
It looks French.  Darmont related?
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: nicanary on October 13, 2017, 06:18:00 AM
I have to say it does look French, but the V-twin doesn't really fit unless it's a Darmont. The image is a bit unclear, and I can't see if that's sliding-pillar suspension. It could well be.

Is it British then?
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Oguerrerob on October 13, 2017, 06:46:55 AM
D'Yrsan?
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Djetset on October 13, 2017, 06:47:45 AM
Sandford ?
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 13, 2017, 10:32:09 AM
Quote from: Djetset on October 13, 2017, 05:17:26 AM
It looks French.  Darmont related?
It raced in France but the builder is not from there.
His name is not related to Darmont as far as I know.
Quote from: nicanary on October 13, 2017, 06:18:00 AM
I have to say it does look French, but the V-twin doesn't really fit unless it's a Darmont. The image is a bit unclear, and I can't see if that's sliding-pillar suspension. It could well be.

Is it British then?
Not British
Quote from: Oguerrerob on October 13, 2017, 06:46:55 AM
D'Yrsan?
Quote from: Djetset on October 13, 2017, 06:47:45 AM
Sandford ?
I have the builder's name and it's not any of the known ones. I couldn't find out if the car was known under a different name.
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: nicanary on October 13, 2017, 11:42:50 AM
If it's any help, the usual French marques were Ruby-powered and that is most definitely a V-twin! I'm guessing it's a JAP.
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 13, 2017, 12:03:18 PM
I just know it's an air cooled twin and front drive...but there was another model, an RWD with a water-cooled four.
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: nicanary on October 13, 2017, 05:50:41 PM
Did it race at the Bol d'Or ?
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 14, 2017, 04:16:18 AM
I do not know...the year is 1931.
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: nicanary on October 14, 2017, 05:15:43 AM
Was the builder from Belgium?
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 14, 2017, 06:14:31 AM
Not from there.

Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 14, 2017, 06:18:37 AM
Quote from: nicanary on October 14, 2017, 05:15:43 AM
Was the builder from Belgium?
Go 150 km east of Bruxelles and you'll find the place.
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Wendax on October 14, 2017, 09:03:46 AM
From Aachen (Aix-la-Chapelle)?
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 14, 2017, 04:06:56 PM
Some more further east.
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Wendax on October 14, 2017, 04:20:50 PM
Cologne? Or somewhere in between?
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 15, 2017, 02:18:19 PM
Quote from: Wendax on October 14, 2017, 09:03:46 AM
From Aachen (Aix-la-Chapelle)?
10/15km east of Aachen

Quote from: Wendax on October 14, 2017, 04:20:50 PM
Cologne? Or somewhere in between?
about 50 km West - South/West of Cologne
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Wendax on October 15, 2017, 03:11:09 PM
From Stolberg?
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 15, 2017, 03:19:50 PM
Yes! He was a civil engineer from Stolberg.
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Allemano on October 17, 2017, 04:30:49 AM
Any chance to find it online?
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 17, 2017, 04:51:25 AM
I took it from there..but as usual I had to do a little detective work to find the details.
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: grobmotorix on October 20, 2017, 06:38:09 PM
Was his name "Schmied" ?
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 21, 2017, 09:28:32 AM
Nope.
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Oguerrerob on December 13, 2017, 03:14:17 AM
The engine/chassis sketch looks very similar to the BSA 9 HP three wheeler
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 13, 2017, 02:38:33 PM
Quote from: Oguerrerob on December 13, 2017, 03:14:17 AM
The engine/chassis sketch looks very similar to the BSA 9 HP three wheeler
Your picture is the same of the puzzle car's  :o
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Oguerrerob on December 13, 2017, 03:32:30 PM
So the puzzle car is base on BSA three wheeler chassis?
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on December 18, 2017, 02:19:54 AM
Unfortunately I do not know. According to my source, there were 2 models, 2cylinder air cooled and 4-cylinder with a standard transmission. The 2 pictures should show the 2 versions. 1 point for you, because you obviously found one of them.
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Hamburg-Automobilia on October 19, 2019, 11:26:00 PM
Michael G.W. Metternich had written it's a D'Yrsan tricycle from 1930 with four-stroke four-cylinder engine and tubular steel frame.
But it is only the following handwritten note to the images available and the actual source I have not yet found.
"d'Yrsan-Wagen um 1930 - Die Karosserie ist dem leichten Fahrzeug angepasst und die rennförmige Aufmachung verleiht dem Fahrzeug ein schnittiges Aussehen.
Drei Modelle wurden gebaut, bei denen nur der Motor und die Karosserie verschieden sind. Die der Motoren hatten 904 ccm (mit stehenden Ventilen), sowie 972 ccm und 1089 ccm (mit hängenden Ventilen). Die entsprechenden Höchst- Geschwindigkeiten betrugen 90 km/h, 120km/h und 130km/h. Der ganze Motorblock lässt sich mit wenigen Handgriffen aus dem Fahrgestell entfernen."
But the information is always very well researched and the sources are mostly in the archive.
Alone the tricycle archive from Michael G.W. Metternich contains tens thousands of documents with infinite information in many boxes. Unfortunately, everything is messed up and it will take years sort everything again. I hope I will find time for it sometime. Actually I want to connect the archive with my own and make it long-term public anyway.
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: gte4289 on October 20, 2019, 01:22:46 AM
Quote from: Hamburg-Automobilia on October 19, 2019, 11:26:00 PM
Michael G.W. Metternich had written it's a D'Yrsan tricycle from 1930 with four-stroke four-cylinder engine and tubular steel frame.
More detailed images of the D'Yrsan chassis shown in your post:
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Hamburg-Automobilia on October 20, 2019, 08:12:28 AM
Thanks for the pictures.  :D
I found an article that was probably the source of M.G.W.M.? The photos are not labeled there with D'Yrsan but there are no other photos in the article and the D'Orsan tricycle is described there.


Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: gte4289 on October 20, 2019, 09:29:14 PM
Quote from: Hamburg-Automobilia on October 20, 2019, 08:12:28 AM
Thanks for the pictures.  :D
I found an article that was probably the source of M.G.W.M.? The photos are not labeled there with D'Yrsan but there are no other photos in the article and the D'Orsan tricycle is described there.
I haven't the time to translate all of that right now, so I'm not sure if that article mentions the name of the German Dreirad builder (solving this puzzle), but I think the puzzle vehicle is far more likely to have been built on the D'Yrsan chassis than on the BSA chassis shown in the initial post. My guess is that PJ's source included an unrelated chassis photo either by mistake or because accuracy was simply not a priority.
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 22, 2019, 08:04:43 AM
Interestin developments.
I'll post my source soon.
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 30, 2019, 08:58:04 AM
"H____ H___ Civil Engineer from Stolberg Rhineland". This is what I have.
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Oguerrerob on October 30, 2019, 10:28:51 AM
A wild guess. Heinz Holt? (5 letters and 4 letters)
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on October 30, 2019, 04:52:09 PM
Not the right name.
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Oguerrerob on October 31, 2019, 09:41:38 AM
Horst Herz?
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 01, 2019, 04:19:46 AM
Hexxx Hexx
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: oko94 on November 01, 2019, 04:39:30 AM
Helge Heck ?
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Oguerrerob on November 01, 2019, 04:50:56 AM
Henne Hess?
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Wendax on November 01, 2019, 05:22:13 AM
It is Henry Heck you are looking for. He is the author of the article posted by Hamburg-Automobilia. But according to the article he is from Antwerp in Belgium, not from Stolberg. And he is surely not the builder, but just presenting the D'Yrsan cylecar to the readers.
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 04, 2019, 08:16:48 AM
Quote from: Wendax on November 01, 2019, 05:22:13 AM
It is Henry Heck you are looking for. He is the author of the article posted by Hamburg-Automobilia. But according to the article he is from Antwerp in Belgium, not from Stolberg. And he is surely not the builder, but just presenting the D'Yrsan cylecar to the readers.
You are right. That was the name I was looking for...but it seems it was not the right one.

I think this is the best sum up of what happened:

Quote from: gte4289 on October 20, 2019, 09:29:14 PM
I haven't the time to translate all of that right now, so I'm not sure if that article mentions the name of the German Dreirad builder (solving this puzzle), but I think the puzzle vehicle is far more likely to have been built on the D'Yrsan chassis than on the BSA chassis shown in the initial post. My guess is that PJ's source included an unrelated chassis photo either by mistake or because accuracy was simply not a priority.

It's a D'Yrsan. I found these 2 pics of a similar body:
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Hamburg-Automobilia on November 08, 2019, 09:28:42 AM
I'm sure it's a normal D'Yrsan tricycle! I can not find a developer from Stolberg and otherwise I agree with the opinion of Wendax and Paul Jaray!
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Oguerrerob on November 08, 2019, 11:38:04 AM
I think it's a D'Yrsan
Title: Re: PJ - 747
Post by: Paul Jaray on November 13, 2019, 03:34:24 AM
I think we reached a fair conclusion. The car is indeed a D'Yrsan and my source (as suspected from the beginning) was not even close to accuracy. I gave a point each to Oguerrerob (who first guessed D'Yrsan) and Hamburg-Automobilia (who provided enough evidence). Thank you all for playing this puzzle, I don't think I'll use that source again!