AutoPuzzles - The Internet's Museum of Rare Cars!

Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2022 => Topic started by: fromwien on August 12, 2022, 04:25:12 PM

Title: SOLVED: FW #343: Lancia Augusta, bodywork by Chausson, 1935
Post by: fromwien on August 12, 2022, 04:25:12 PM
Please identify this car: Make? Type? Coachbuilder? Year?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on August 23, 2022, 08:41:57 AM
Experts?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: FrontMan on August 23, 2022, 12:20:18 PM
British Salmson 20/90, 1936?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on August 23, 2022, 12:49:04 PM
No
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: richard fridd on August 24, 2022, 03:37:46 AM
German?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on August 24, 2022, 03:42:50 AM
No
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: D-type on August 24, 2022, 05:00:51 PM
British?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on August 24, 2022, 05:09:23 PM
No
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: FrontMan on August 24, 2022, 06:12:58 PM
French?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: D-type on August 27, 2022, 07:43:35 AM
Italian?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on August 27, 2022, 07:58:26 AM
Partly
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on August 27, 2022, 08:01:27 AM
Quote from: FrontMan on August 24, 2022, 06:12:58 PM
French?
Partly
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: marmer on August 28, 2022, 09:23:41 PM
American chassis?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: BattlePorQ on August 31, 2022, 10:53:55 AM
Peugeot 201 with non-french bodywork?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on August 31, 2022, 06:32:17 PM
Quote from: marmer on August 28, 2022, 09:23:41 PM
American chassis?
No
Quote from: BattlePorQ on August 31, 2022, 10:53:55 AM
Peugeot 201 with non-french bodywork?
No
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: BattlePorQ on September 01, 2022, 10:18:20 AM
Quote from: fromwien on August 27, 2022, 08:01:27 AM
Quote from: FrontMan on August 24, 2022, 06:12:58 PM
French?
Partly
French part is chassis?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 01, 2022, 11:10:53 AM
No
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: BattlePorQ on September 02, 2022, 05:10:04 AM
FIAT?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 02, 2022, 05:17:01 AM
No
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: BattlePorQ on September 02, 2022, 05:21:55 AM
British chassis?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 10, 2022, 01:09:58 PM
No
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: D-type on September 15, 2022, 03:11:55 PM
It's partly French and partly Italian

Is it a French body with an Italian chassis and engine?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 15, 2022, 07:23:56 PM
Yes, it is
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: BattlePorQ on September 16, 2022, 04:41:18 AM
Lancia Belna Portout Drophead Coupe.
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 16, 2022, 06:37:35 AM
No
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: BattlePorQ on September 16, 2022, 07:25:40 AM
Not Lancia, not Belna or not Portout?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 16, 2022, 12:13:02 PM
Only Lancia is correct
(Sorry, please only one question each. My last answer was the response on how you wanted to have the car recognized)
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: D-type on September 16, 2022, 03:50:02 PM
This is a basic difficulty with multi-part questions..  If you are asking for more than one thing, a Boolean "No" can be misleading.  You should give a clear "Yes" or "No" to each part answer.  It's only fair.
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 16, 2022, 06:14:50 PM
Quote from: D-type on September 16, 2022, 03:50:02 PM
This is a basic difficulty with multi-part questions..  If you are asking for more than one thing, a Boolean "No" can be misleading.  You should give a clear "Yes" or "No" to each part answer.  It's only fair.
A question like, "Lancia Belna Portout Drophead Coupe" identifies a specific car and  includes most of the puzzle questions.
But the puzzle car isn't this specific car.

If you read the rules carefully, the questioner should ask the puzzle setter only one specific question. This makes perfect sense, because this rule allows several participants to reach the goal with different approaches.
If you break down a question into all its individual parts, strange constructs can take the game ad absurdum:

"German Lancia on Renault chassis from 1935 with British bodywork by Kellner from 1939?"

To be honest: In case of this puzzle, where you think to be in need to criticize my answer without being affected by yourself, I had been consistent asked for a specific car, which the puzzle car isn't.
If the question would have been: Lancia by Pourtout? My answer would have been: Lancia: Yes, Pourtout: No.
Although my answer wouldn't have followed then the rules correctly, this would have been a concession.

You are very welcome to ask a question about this car, which leads to the solution. The actual goal of the game, if I understood it correctly
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: Carnut on September 17, 2022, 06:16:30 AM
It always has been normal here on AP to acknowledge if a part of an answer is correct, so the normal answer to the question "Lancia Belna Portout Drophead Coupe?" would be something like "It is a Lancia but not that one."
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 17, 2022, 08:48:22 AM
Sorry, for a high percentage I feel sure, that the questioner asked for a specific car, after the find of the attached picture of a "Lancia Belna DHC Pourtout". I will repeat once more, this isn't the puzzle car. His question contained all the references to this one specific car!
The puzzle car isn't a Lancia Belna and not from Pourtout. So it isn't that car
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: Carnut on September 17, 2022, 10:38:58 AM
But it's a Lancia, and one of your questions was "Make?" so should have been acknowledged!
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 17, 2022, 11:52:41 AM
OK, thanks for quick response and explanation, which also correctly enables me to go into all the details of the puzzle-setter's questioning with only a single reply.

I just don't think this is effective, prevents the already weak dynamics even more and prefers people, who do not investigate but try "lucky punches"

Example:
Puzzle-setter: Please identify this car: Make? Chassis? Engine? Coachbuilder?
Puzzle-participant: French?
Puzzle-setter: Has to answer with "Yes" and "No" specific to "Make, chassis, engine and coachbuilder"

Of course, from now on, I will follow these rules exactly
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: Carnut on September 17, 2022, 12:28:39 PM
But it's not quite so black and white.
If the answer to one of those questions is 'French' then you can answer 'partly'.
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: richard fridd on September 18, 2022, 05:33:37 AM
Lancia Augusta?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 18, 2022, 01:37:49 PM
Yes, it is. Three trials to find coachbuilder and year
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: richard fridd on September 19, 2022, 03:20:01 AM
Farina 1934?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 19, 2022, 05:53:14 AM
No, but we know that the coachbuilder is a French one. The year is one step next the right one.
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: richard fridd on September 19, 2022, 01:39:59 PM
Figoni?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 19, 2022, 04:27:18 PM
No
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: richard fridd on September 22, 2022, 07:12:12 AM
Kellner?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 22, 2022, 07:35:58 AM
Not Kellner

One more trial
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: richard fridd on September 23, 2022, 01:16:23 AM
Last French guess. Chapron?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 23, 2022, 01:49:49 AM
Sorry, no
UNLOCKED, open for all again
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: BattlePorQ on September 23, 2022, 03:32:06 AM
Paul Née?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 23, 2022, 04:44:41 AM
No
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: richard fridd on September 23, 2022, 07:08:46 AM
Hibbard?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 23, 2022, 08:41:04 AM
No
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: richard fridd on September 26, 2022, 04:33:28 PM
Georges Paulin hood design?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on September 27, 2022, 02:02:58 AM
No
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: richard fridd on October 01, 2022, 04:40:21 AM
Parisian?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on October 02, 2022, 11:39:58 AM
Yes. Coachbuilder located in the Parisian region
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: BattlePorQ on October 04, 2022, 08:09:39 AM
H. De Corvaia?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on October 04, 2022, 09:30:15 AM
No
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: richard fridd on October 05, 2022, 04:09:31 AM
Vanvooran?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on October 05, 2022, 04:56:10 AM
No
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: hermanoto on October 05, 2022, 08:38:02 AM
Paul Née, 1935
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on October 05, 2022, 08:41:11 AM
No.
Hint: The coachbuilder is very well known for another car-category
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: BattlePorQ on October 05, 2022, 08:46:06 AM
Currus?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on October 05, 2022, 08:54:39 AM
You are on the right way, but: No
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: BattlePorQ on October 05, 2022, 08:56:16 AM
Heuliez?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on October 05, 2022, 09:00:41 AM
No
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: richard fridd on October 06, 2022, 02:55:40 AM
Quote from: fromwien on October 05, 2022, 08:41:11 AM
No.6
Hint: The coachbuilder is very well known for another car-category


Commercial catagory?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on October 06, 2022, 03:58:11 AM
Quote from: richard fridd on October 06, 2022, 02:55:40 AM
Quote from: fromwien on October 05, 2022, 08:41:11 AM
No.6
Hint: The coachbuilder is very well known for another car-category


Commercial catagory?
Not quite easy to answer you correctly: 'BattlePorQ' was on the right way with 'Currus' and 'Heuliez'..
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: BattlePorQ on October 06, 2022, 07:17:54 AM
Chausson?
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: fromwien on October 06, 2022, 07:48:48 AM
That's it! Here is your next well earned point.
Title: Re: FW #343
Post by: BattlePorQ on October 06, 2022, 07:50:18 AM
Quote from: fromwien on October 06, 2022, 07:48:48 AM
That's it!
That was surprising.
Title: Re: SOLVED: FW #343: Lancia Augusta, bodywork by Chausson, 1935
Post by: fromwien on October 06, 2022, 09:08:07 AM
Founded in 1907 as Atéliers Chausson Frères, they became the biggest manufacturer of radiators in France in the 1920s.
In the 1930s Chausson started coachbuilding and became the biggest french coachbuilder in the 1950s (In 1942, during World War II, Chausson built his first omnibus)
Chausson built bodies on Simca, Peugeot, Ford, Matford, Panhard, Renault, Citroen, DAF, Volvo, Opel, BMW, Perle, Chenard-Walcker, DB, Rosengart, CHS, Lancia, Talbot Lago chassis' etc.