Please identify this bus: Make? Coachbuilder? Year?
Experts?
French?
Partly
Is there some Delahaye in there?
No
Panhard?
No
Chenard et Walcker?
No
Professionals?
Renault ?
French coachbuilder?
Central European (https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/professional-autopuzzles/fvk_202/msg602036/#msg602036) coachbuilder?
No
Matford?
Latil M2A1B3 chassis?
Scandinavian coachbuilder?
Yes
Denmark?
No
Norway?
Yes
Laffly ?
No, far easier
Citroën by Larvik
Yes, Citroen, but not by Larvik
LOCKED for three attempts to find coachbuilder and year
Hønefoss ?
No
Repstad ?
No
Elverum ?
No
UNLOCKED
Gjøvik ?
No
Harstad ?
No
Hartveit ?
No
Iversen ?
No
Kambo ?
No
Mariero ?
No
Munck ?
No
Bjørgulfson, Larvik, 1935?
Østfold ?
Quote from: gte4289 on June 26, 2023, 07:16:38 PM
Bjørgulfson, Larvik, 1935?
Interesting to note that registration "Z-1711" from this bus was later assigned to a 1948 Diamond T bus with body by Bjørgulfson (also Larvik-Sandefjord).
Quote from: gte4289 on June 26, 2023, 07:16:38 PM
Bjørgulfson, Larvik, 1935?
My source shows the same picture with the same reg. nr., but different coachbuilder and year. Will check once more for you
LOCKED for you
Quote from: fromwien on June 27, 2023, 12:23:43 PM
Quote from: gte4289 on June 26, 2023, 07:16:38 PM
Bjørgulfson, Larvik, 1935?
My source shows the same picture with the same reg. nr., but different coachbuilder and year. Will check once more for you
LOCKED for you
The photo was taken at the Citroen dealer on 1 October 1935 by Anders Beer Wilse, so the bus could have been completed in 1934 (or even earlier).
As for the coachbuilder, T. Knudsen?
As I feared about, now it gets a little complicated. My source on the net -with a later building date of the car- doesn't exist anymore. I think to know your source, which seems to be far more reliable than mine was.
If you can send the proof with the coachbuilder and date mentioned, I think we can move this puzzle to the "solved-section".
Quote from: fromwien on June 28, 2023, 05:51:18 AM
As I feared about, now it gets a little complicated. My source on the net -with a later building date of the car- doesn't exist anymore. I think to know your source, which seems to be far more reliable than mine was.
If you can send the proof with the coachbuilder and date mentioned, I think we can move this puzzle to the "solved-section".
I have sent proof of the date (via pm), but nothing I have definitively identifies Bjørgulfson as the coachbuilder of this Citroen bus. It's all circumstantial (similarly-bodied buses by Bjørgulfson, the fact that the replacement Diamond T bus was bodied by Bjørgulfson, etc.).
If not by either Bjørgulfson or Knudsen, then another possible coachbuilder operating in that area and at that time was Hansen.
Quote from: gte4289 on June 28, 2023, 03:55:11 PM
Quote from: fromwien on June 28, 2023, 05:51:18 AM
As I feared about, now it gets a little complicated. My source on the net -with a later building date of the car- doesn't exist anymore. I think to know your source, which seems to be far more reliable than mine was.
If you can send the proof with the coachbuilder and date mentioned, I think we can move this puzzle to the "solved-section".
I have sent proof of the date (via pm), but nothing I have definitively identifies Bjørgulfson as the coachbuilder of this Citroen bus. It's all circumstantial (similarly-bodied buses by Bjørgulfson, the fact that the replacement Diamond T bus was bodied by Bjørgulfson, etc.).
If not by either Bjørgulfson or Knudsen, then another possible coachbuilder operating in that area and at that time was Hansen.
Sorry, due to my source, the coachbuilder isn't Bjørgulfson, Knudsen or Hansen
Bjarne Bergs?
No
Your source doesn't say it was Karosseri Larvik, does it? (K. Larvik didn't exist until 1941.)
No
The enigma remains. P.H.-T. Schmidt ?
=====
Thank you for your question and the enclosed photograph from 1934-1935 of a Citroën bus. The bus is probably standing in front of the garage of Norsk Citroën A/S in Skøyen in Oslo, founded in 1930. The bus is dressed to service the route between the two coastal towns of Larvik and Sandefjord in southeastern Norway.
I am sorry to inform you that Norsk Folkemuseum does not have the actual bus in its collection. A shame really, beacuse the bus is a true gem!
What you have found is a photograph from the collection of Norsk Folkemuseum by the famous Norwegian photographer Anders Beer Wilse (1865-1949). In 1934-1935 Wilse probably had a commercial assignment to photograph vehicles for Citroën in Norway, as the museum have have around ten promotional photographs of different vehicles.
I have searched in the newspapers from this period, but haven't found any information on this particular bus. We know that the Norwegian Citroën company did assemble vehicles in their garage in Skøyen Norway from 1931 and some years forward, but I don't know if that was the case with this bus. The photograph is dated October 1 1935 in our archives.
Best wishes,
Unni Tandberg
Curator
Cultural History Division
Norsk Folkemuseum
Skabo?
No
Jensen?
P.H.-T. Schmidt ?
Sorry, no
Has the coachbuilder been featured on AP before?
Rogaland ?
Viggakleiv ?
No
Vestfold ?
No
Masters?
Høka? (Same as Hønefoss (https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/master-autopuzzles/fw-453/msg605555/#msg605555), but just checking in case you weren't aware of this.)
No
do you know some things about the coachbuilder? Like, was it just a coachbuilder or did it also operate bus lines?
No, I haven't any further informations about the coachbuilder. Will try to find out, if the company also operated bus lines
Fredrikstad?
No
Do you know where it was located?
Yes
Oslo?
No
Østfold region?
No
Rogaland region?
No
Telemark region?
No
Akershus region?
No
Hedmark region?
No
Vestfold region?
No
Troms region?
If you mean Tromsø, no
Oppland region?
Trøndelag region?
Too far to the north, no
Agder region?
Far too far to the south, no
Buskerud region?
Too far to the south, no
Karstad & Co from Stryn?
No
Sogn og Fjordane region?
Too far to the south, no
Brødrene Solheimdal Karosserifabrikk?
No
More og Romsdal region?
You get closer
"Trøndelag region? No"
That's it, I don't see any more regions nearby on the map
This is the map, I was going with
Sorry, my mistake:
It is "More og Romsdal"-region
Brødrene Solheimdal?
Røvik karosserifabrikk?
Karosseri Sunnmøre ?
No
Ødegårds Karosserifabrikk?
No
Spjelkavik?
No
Humberset?
No
Bussbygg ?
No
Ole A Eide?
No
Ottlerlei?
No
then you know more than the Norwegian motoring historians. This was the last on the list of bus coachbuilders rom More og Romsdal in the time frame specified. I can go on with others, which were active later, but this is definitely strange.
Alfred Watnes?
To be honest, it's not me, who may know more than the Norwegian motoring historians, but the editor of the source, where I've found the informations for this puzzle. The person who once published this article -which unfortunately disappeared online- is/was a resident of the town, where the coachbuilder was located.
It would be great, if the Norwegian motoring historians could experience something previously unknown by AutoPuzzles, they don't already know about.
The first letter of the town, where the coachbuilder was located is: "S", the last letter of the coachbuilders name: "A"
Quote from: fromwien on September 10, 2023, 05:20:47 PM
The first letter of the town, where the coachbuilder was located is: "S", the last letter of the coachbuilders name: "A"
Driva Karosseri (Otto Dørum & Co) of Sunndalsøra?
:applause: :applause: :applause:
Great found by an very engaged AutoPuzzler! Congratulation
The photo's source dates it to 1935. Your source attributes the coachwork to Driva. There are two additional sources dating the founding of Driva Karosseri to 1937 (two years after the photo). It seems one or more of these sources is mistaken, but I have neither the time nor the energy to try and figure out which. So...
Thanks for the point! :)
:applause: :applause: :applause:
It's my mistake, it's on the list, I just typed it, then replaced it with something else and then completely forgot about it. Anyhow, congratulations to gte4289.
Quote from: gte4289 on September 10, 2023, 06:58:37 PM
The photo's source dates it to 1935. Your source attributes the coachwork to Driva. There are two additional sources dating the founding of Driva Karosseri to 1937 (two years after the photo). It seems one or more of these sources is mistaken, but I have neither the time nor the energy to try and figure out which. So...
Thanks for the point! :)
I've also found two sources about Driva Karosseri, dating their founding to 1937. So I hope and think the photo source date 1935 may be the wrong one.