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Puzzles, Games and Name That Car => Solved AutoPuzzles => 2023 => Topic started by: grobmotorix on March 16, 2012, 12:36:56 PM

Title: Works - Jaray Mercedes-Benz 200 lang or 230 with Reutter body, ca. 1935/36
Post by: grobmotorix on March 16, 2012, 12:36:56 PM
Who knows this car?

One point for the technical basis car and the designer.
Title: Re: grob 2012_03_16 (01)
Post by: grobmotorix on March 23, 2012, 12:25:04 PM
for our experts.
Title: Re: grob 2012_03_16 (01)
Post by: tonyola on March 23, 2012, 02:24:51 PM
1938 Mercedes-Benz 170V with bodywork by Kamm.
Title: Re: grob 2012_03_16 (01)
Post by: grobmotorix on March 23, 2012, 03:16:18 PM
Locked for you.

You´re almost right, but my source claims this to be a different design.

So this is not Kamm, but...
Title: Re: LOCKED: grob 2012_03_16 (01)
Post by: tonyola on March 24, 2012, 08:46:55 AM
OK, the bodywork is by Wendler, not Kamm.
Title: Re: LOCKED: grob 2012_03_16 (01)
Post by: grobmotorix on March 24, 2012, 02:37:45 PM
Hmmm,

I do not have any information about who really built it, so you may be right with the Wendler guess.

I still need the (very well known) name of the designer to award this point.
Title: Re: LOCKED: grob 2012_03_16 (01)
Post by: tonyola on March 25, 2012, 08:01:26 AM
Go ahead and unlock it.
Title: Re: LOCKED: grob 2012_03_16 (01)
Post by: grobmotorix on March 25, 2012, 08:04:03 AM
O.K.

I´ve got to correct myself:

it is a mercedes, but not a 170V...

So we still need the right number and the designer´s name.
Title: Re: LOCKED: grob 2012_03_16 (01)
Post by: Allemano on May 04, 2012, 08:28:34 AM
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g106/pan1968/Gifs/impatient.gif)



;)
Title: Re: grob 2012_03_16 (01) Mercedes XXX by XXX??
Post by: grobmotorix on May 04, 2012, 10:31:14 AM
Sorry for the slightly delayed de-lock action...

Open again, of course.
Title: Re: grob 2012_03_16 (01) Mercedes XXX by XXX??
Post by: sixtee5cuda on May 04, 2012, 09:13:47 PM
It appears to be an extension of the Autobahnkurier concept, designed after the ideas of Paul Jaray and Baron Reinhard von Koenig-Fachsenfeld.

Similarities include fastback design, and covers over the rear wheels.

Previous Autobahnkurier cars were 320-based, but this model looks smaller, like it is a 230.
Title: Re: grob 2012_03_16 (01) Mercedes XXX by XXX??
Post by: grobmotorix on May 05, 2012, 03:27:12 AM
Take only one of the two names and I will lock it for you.
You then only have to chose the right one and tell me a different model number and this would be your point!
Title: Re: grob 2012_03_16 (01) Mercedes XXX by XXX??
Post by: sixtee5cuda on May 05, 2012, 10:28:04 AM
Designer was Baron Reinhard von Koenig-Fachsenfeld
Title: Re: grob 2012_03_16 (01) Mercedes XXX by XXX??
Post by: grobmotorix on May 05, 2012, 11:32:02 AM
My source says it´s been the other guy...
Title: Re: grob 2012_03_16 (01) Mercedes XXX by XXX??
Post by: sixtee5cuda on May 05, 2012, 12:16:21 PM
Do I get a lock by saying "Paul Jaray"?   :)
Title: Re: grob 2012_03_16 (01) Mercedes XXX by XXX??
Post by: grobmotorix on May 05, 2012, 01:08:31 PM
Yes, LOCKED for you.

Tell me the right number of the Mercedes and you´ll get a point...
Title: Re: LOCKED: grob 2012_03_16 (01) Jaray Mercedes XXX?
Post by: sixtee5cuda on May 05, 2012, 01:17:59 PM
230
Title: Re: LOCKED: grob 2012_03_16 (01) Jaray Mercedes XXX?
Post by: grobmotorix on May 05, 2012, 01:22:43 PM
-
Title: Re: LOCKED: grob 2012_03_16 (01) Jaray Mercedes XXX?
Post by: sixtee5cuda on May 05, 2012, 06:02:20 PM
320?
Title: Re: LOCKED: grob 2012_03_16 (01) Jaray Mercedes XXX?
Post by: grobmotorix on May 05, 2012, 06:30:13 PM
I said "-", not "+"  ;)
Title: Re: LOCKED: grob 2012_03_16 (01) Jaray Mercedes XXX?
Post by: sixtee5cuda on May 05, 2012, 06:52:02 PM
170 ? :)
Title: Re: LOCKED: grob 2012_03_16 (01) Jaray Mercedes XXX?
Post by: sixtee5cuda on May 05, 2012, 06:54:47 PM
200

(I guess they made 200's in 1937, and this car is a prototype/proposal, so it could be a 200 as well)

And at this moment, I finally found a rear view picture of the car in question.  Definitely a 200.  Stromlinien-Special-Limousine
Title: Re: LOCKED: grob 2012_03_16 (01) Jaray Mercedes XXX?
Post by: grobmotorix on May 06, 2012, 01:35:02 AM
Your point, finally!

My source claims it to be a special works version of the Mercedes 200 lang (long wheelbase),
fitted with an aerodynamic body after Jaray patents, built at Reutter Karosseriewerke Stuttgart.

A small series of those were planned, but I think it never saw a kind of real production.
Title: Re: Works - Jaray Mercedes 200 lang with Reutter-Body, ca. 1935/36
Post by: ImpishGrin on May 30, 2012, 06:42:33 AM
I think this one should be put to rest in the Solved section ;)
Title: Re: Works - Jaray Mercedes 200 lang with Reutter-Body, ca. 1935/36
Post by: grobmotorix on May 30, 2012, 08:04:15 AM
Sure, thank you...
Title: Re: Works - Jaray Mercedes 200 lang with Reutter-Body, ca. 1935/36
Post by: Allemano on May 30, 2012, 10:30:02 AM
According to the Reutter book it's based on a MB 230 not a 200 and the year is 1937.
Title: Re: Works - Jaray Mercedes 200 lang with Reutter-Body, ca. 1935/36
Post by: Wendax on May 30, 2012, 11:48:48 AM
According to Werner Oswald it is a Typ 200 lang Stromlinien-Spezial-Limousine from 1935 and was on offer for RM 9400 in 1935 only. The normal 4 door sedan cost just RM 5700. I'm not sure about the Jaray connection as it looks much more conventional than the 1934 Typ 200 Jaray prototype.
Title: Re: Works - Jaray Mercedes 200 lang with Reutter-Body, ca. 1935/36
Post by: Allemano on May 30, 2012, 12:02:55 PM
Quote from: Wendax on May 30, 2012, 11:48:48 AM
According to Werner Oswald it is a Typ 200 lang Stromlinien-Spezial-Limousine from 1935 and was on offer for RM 9400 in 1935 only. The normal 4 door sedan cost just RM 5700. I'm not sure about the Jaray connection as it looks much more conventional than the 1934 Typ 200 Jaray prototype.
Will scan the page from the Reutter book tomorrow.
Title: Re: Works - Jaray Mercedes 200 lang with Reutter-Body, ca. 1935/36
Post by: Wendax on May 30, 2012, 12:10:57 PM
I know both books, just wanted to point out the differing opinions about this rare bird.
Title: Re: Works - Jaray Mercedes 200 lang with Reutter-Body, ca. 1935/36
Post by: Allemano on May 30, 2012, 12:17:24 PM
Quote from: Wendax on May 30, 2012, 12:10:57 PM
I know both books, just wanted to point out the differing opinions about this rare bird.
Maybe you know both books, but you are not a lone on this board!  (thank god!!!! :hail::hail::hail: ;D)
Title: Re: Works - Jaray Mercedes 200 lang with Reutter-Body, ca. 1935/36
Post by: grobmotorix on May 30, 2012, 01:39:22 PM
I own the O.-book, too, but my pic stems from a paper clipping from an old magazine essay about streamline history (maybe ADAC Motorwelt...)
Unfortunately I forgot to scan the main text essay, too, where it was claimed to be a Jaray design. (top photo)

At the bottom you can see the pic from the O.-book:
Title: SOLVED: si_390 - Mercedes-Benz - 230 Streamline Saloon - by Reutter - 1937
Post by: sichel on February 20, 2023, 02:23:48 PM
Strong visual impression and low air resistance, or not?
Please name for one point: manufacturer, model, coachbuilder and year of construction.
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on February 26, 2023, 01:07:35 PM
Up to Experts.
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on February 27, 2023, 09:43:16 AM
American?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on February 27, 2023, 11:06:56 AM
No.
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on February 27, 2023, 02:34:10 PM
French?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on February 28, 2023, 01:44:16 AM
No
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on February 28, 2023, 10:22:29 AM
German?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on February 28, 2023, 02:46:48 PM
Yes
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on February 28, 2023, 03:47:10 PM
Bleichert?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on February 28, 2023, 04:44:48 PM
No.
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on February 28, 2023, 11:35:21 PM
Hanomag?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 01, 2023, 02:26:58 AM
No
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 01, 2023, 09:55:52 AM
Adler?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 01, 2023, 11:50:41 AM
No
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 01, 2023, 03:31:51 PM
Wanderer?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 01, 2023, 03:43:08 PM
No
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 01, 2023, 04:35:07 PM
Brennabor front-drive prototype?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 01, 2023, 05:01:41 PM
No
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 01, 2023, 05:50:51 PM
Ford of Germany?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 02, 2023, 03:40:51 AM
No
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 03, 2023, 07:43:01 PM
Framo?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 04, 2023, 05:10:02 AM
No.
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 04, 2023, 07:43:57 PM
Is it a prototype or series production?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 05, 2023, 12:23:10 PM
It was not a series vehicle.
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 05, 2023, 09:32:01 PM
Built by a motorcycle manufacturer?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 06, 2023, 02:10:46 AM
Not a motorbike manufacturer. This body is based on a series model of a car manufacturer.
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: knewit on March 06, 2023, 08:11:38 AM
1930ies ?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 06, 2023, 09:24:52 AM
Did the manufacturer also build 3-wheelers?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 06, 2023, 02:07:19 PM
1930ies? Yes
Did the manufacturer also build 3-wheelers? A predecessor company also built tricycles.
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 06, 2023, 04:08:26 PM
Any relationship to Josef Ganz?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 07, 2023, 08:25:54 AM
Not that I know of
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 07, 2023, 09:36:02 AM
Is there a BMW connection?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 07, 2023, 11:04:57 AM
No BMW connection.
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 07, 2023, 11:28:15 AM
Tempo?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 07, 2023, 04:52:43 PM
No
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 08, 2023, 04:29:37 PM
Slevogt?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: knewit on March 08, 2023, 04:35:52 PM
Goliath / Hansa / Borgward group
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 08, 2023, 04:46:17 PM
Oooh, good one!  Hansa Privat?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 08, 2023, 05:17:57 PM
Sorry, but neither Slevogt nor an example from the Borgward group.
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: knewit on March 09, 2023, 05:55:30 AM
was the company in the eastern part of Germany - after WWII GDR or Poland ?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 09, 2023, 10:16:09 AM
Weise & Co?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 09, 2023, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: knewit on March 09, 2023, 05:55:30 AM
was the company in the eastern part of Germany - after WWII GDR or Poland ?
No.
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 10, 2023, 01:13:23 PM
Hanko Rheingold?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: knewit on March 13, 2023, 12:58:19 PM
Röhr
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 13, 2023, 02:57:21 PM
Mercedes-Benz?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 13, 2023, 03:19:52 PM
Quote from: marmer on March 13, 2023, 02:57:21 PM
Mercedes-Benz?
Yes
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 13, 2023, 03:28:17 PM
1938 400 V?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 13, 2023, 03:38:01 PM
No
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 13, 2023, 03:46:49 PM
170 V?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 13, 2023, 03:48:53 PM
No.
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 13, 2023, 04:40:33 PM
130 V? (W144)
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 13, 2023, 04:44:07 PM
No
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 13, 2023, 05:02:11 PM
W 142?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 14, 2023, 09:56:16 AM
Is this from 1938?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 14, 2023, 03:00:54 PM
It's not a W 142 and it's not from 1938.
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 14, 2023, 03:43:48 PM
1936?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 14, 2023, 04:54:14 PM
No.
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 14, 2023, 05:15:22 PM
Is this one of the Gustav Röhr-Modelle prototypes that never made it into production?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 15, 2023, 02:41:21 PM
No.
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 15, 2023, 03:10:25 PM
Not:

W136
W142
W144
W145
W146
W147
W160


W153?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 15, 2023, 03:15:04 PM
No
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 15, 2023, 03:24:03 PM
Is it earlier than 1936?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 15, 2023, 03:34:52 PM
No
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 15, 2023, 03:35:47 PM
Later than 1939?
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 15, 2023, 04:13:00 PM
No
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: marmer on March 15, 2023, 04:19:27 PM
W143/230?

Specifically,

Reutter Mercedes-Benz 230 Streamline Saloon, delivered 11.Nov. 1937
Title: Re: si_390
Post by: sichel on March 16, 2023, 03:49:20 PM
What lasts long, finally becomes good... This is your next point.
Title: Re: Works - Jaray Mercedes-Benz 200 lang or 230 with Reutter body, ca. 1935/36
Post by: Wendax on March 16, 2023, 04:56:02 PM
Merged and header amended to have both chassis possibilities in there