The adventure is waiting! What should it be done with?
The manufacturer of the base vehicle, its type designation, the body builder and the year of manufacture are required. There is also a nickname.
Up to the Experts.
Mercedes-Benz?
Yes
LAK 2624?
No.
All-wheel drive chassis? (Looks like it)
Yes, it is a 6x6.
L 2628? Built by Iran Khodro?
Neither nor.
LA 2620?
1970 Mercedes-Benz L 911
Used for crossing people and cargo across the desert, probabily Sahara.
Build by local builder from Niger for SOTRANS (Société de Transport Transsaharien)
Quote from: marmer on February 19, 2025, 06:39:29 PM
LA 2620?
Very close. The puzzle vehicle has a higher performance.
Locked for fivve attempts to name type designation and coachbuilder.
Quote from: driggy.dragos on February 20, 2025, 08:34:15 AM
1970 Mercedes-Benz L 911
Used for crossing people and cargo across the desert, probabily Sahara.
Build by local builder from Niger for SOTRANS (Société de Transport Transsaharien)
The body doesn't fit an L 911 at all.
LA 2623? (We've already eliminated 2624, which has similar headlights and intake stack)
Yes, it is a 2623.
Is this in Africa?
I don't know that.
Is the nickname you are seeking "Rundhauber" or "Kurzhauber?"
No.
Up to the professionals.
Up to the Masters
Only guessing: Is the coachbuilder Van Hool? The nickname: Wüstenschiff?
I think the one oon the photo is the same bus as the puzzle object?
Van Hool? No
Wüstenschiff? Yes
Your photo shows one of the several specimens
German coachbuilder?
Yes
Voll, Würzburg?
No.
Vetter?
No, not Vetter either.
Is the body-manufacturer well known for buses?
Not really.
For fire engines?
As far as I know, not known for fire engines.
Truck superstructures?
Yes, but mostly buses.
Drögmöller?
No.
Freudenau?
Berger Karosseriebau, Frankfurt?
Neither, nor.
Stolle?
No.
Fleischer?
Nooo!!!
Expected this answer
Peter Bauer?
Göppel?
Neither no
FAKA/Kögel?
Waggonfabrik Uerdingen?
Neither nor.
Steib?
No.
Gaubschat?
No.
Ernst Auwärter/EA KFB?
Kässbohrer? Gottlob Auwärter? ;)
Oh, goodie! A German bus coachbuilder race! Ackermann?
Neither, no.
Kässbohrer?
No
Wackenhut?
Wille?
No
Thiele?
Quote from: fromwien on March 29, 2025, 09:18:00 AM
Is the body-manufacturer well known for buses?
Quote from: sichel on March 29, 2025, 12:15:46 PM
Not really.
Quote from: fromwien on March 29, 2025, 06:00:23 PM
Truck superstructures?
Quote from: sichel on March 29, 2025, 07:31:33 PM
Yes, but mostly buses.
This sounds contradictory. Does it mean the coachbuilder primarily bodied buses, but is not really well-known?
Ottenbacher?
"Does it mean the coachbuilder primarily bodied buses, but is not really well-known?"
Yes.
Badisches Fahrzeug- und Karosseriewerk?
No.
Krämer?
Is it Thiele?
Neither, nor.
Not difficult to find who these were built for, when and where they were used, and even the fact that they had another nickname. But so far, no information on the builder. :(
Credé?
Quote from: gte4289 on April 01, 2025, 07:37:25 PM
Not difficult to find who these were built for, ........ But so far, no information on the builder. :(
That's typical AutoPuzzles ;-)
Is it Credé?
No.
Sorry for the late answer :hail:
Trutz?
No, see answer #67.
Rathgeber, or is that too well known?
Yes, it is too well known.
Christian Schmitz, Derichsweiler?
Balzer?
Neither nor.
Schmitz fits quite well in terms of name recognition.
Lotz?
Friedrich Minnameier, Nürnberg?
Neither nor.
Schmidt?
Fritsche & Brause, Döbeln?
Neither Schmidt nor Fritsche & Brause.
Vogtland Fahrzeugbau GmbH (VEB Karosseriewerk Vogtland, Plauen)?
Walther?
:shakehead: Neither nor :huh:
Binz?
No
Was the coachbuilder still active after 1980?
Schleede? (that's also a guess for the MAN tank truck and trailer that has driven into The Black Hole.)
FKF-Werke Friedrich Schmitt & Co.?
Neither Schleede (not even the black-hole tanker) nor FKF.
Schultze, Mann & Co?
No.
Popp?
No
Heinrich Schmitz, Altenberge?
Quote from: gte4289 on April 13, 2025, 06:58:30 PM
Quote from: gte4289 on April 11, 2025, 04:57:54 PM
Was the coachbuilder still active after 1980?
?
Sorry, yes he was.
During this time, bus production was drastically reduced.
Assuming that it isn't fromwien's guess (and that color and Baujahr make me worry that it is) is it a company that is now better known for trailers?
Quote from: marmer on April 14, 2025, 09:36:34 AM
...is it a company that is now better known for trailers?
Definitely not.
Schmitz, Vreden?
No.
Quote from: gte4289 on April 11, 2025, 04:57:54 PM
Was the coachbuilder still active after 1980?
Yes he was.
During this time, bus production was drastically reduced.
Graaff, or is that too well known?
Evels?
Graaff is a little too well known.
Evels is unknown enough.
But neither of them are the builders of the 'Wüstenschiff'.
Bierewirtz?
Klatte?
Neither nor.
Friedrich Radochla?
No
Von Linien?
Ludewig?
Neither nor. They are both quite well known.
Friederichs?
Bock?
Friedrichs? There is a connection
Bock? No.
Is it Carl Friederichs, GMBH on Schlitzer Straße in Frankfurt? the 1964 factory which is the successor to the H.L. Friederichs firm? Also, no one has come out and said it but this is a SNTV bus for Algeria.
Yes, this company is meant. Who or what is SNTV in the context of this puzzle?
Societe Nationaie du Transport Voayageurs in Algeria. There's also a Société Nigerienne de Transports de Voyageurs in Niger, but I think we're talking about the Algerian one here.
Quote from: marmer on April 15, 2025, 11:57:44 AM
Societe Nationaie du Transport Voayageurs in Algeria. There's also a Société Nigerienne de Transports de Voyageurs in Niger, but I think we're talking about the Algerian one here.
North Africa sounds logical, but I have no idea or information where exactly the pictures were taken.
Quote from: fromwien on April 15, 2025, 08:15:42 AM
Friederichs?
Quote from: sichel on April 15, 2025, 10:52:28 AM
Friedrichs? There is a connection
Bock? No.
Quote from: marmer on April 15, 2025, 11:08:17 AM
Is it Carl Friederichs, GMBH on Schlitzer Straße in Frankfurt? the 1964 factory which is the successor to the H.L. Friederichs firm? Also, no one has come out and said it but this is a SNTV bus for Algeria.
Quote from: sichel on April 15, 2025, 11:38:34 AM
Yes, this company is meant. Who or what is SNTV in the context of this puzzle?
Sorry, what's going on here???
My answer: Friederichs
sichel answer: Friedrichs? There is a connection
I never asked for 'Friedrichs'
Then 'marmer' details my answer
sichel answer: yes, this company is meant
THERE IS ONLY ONE VEHICLE MANUFACTURER, NAMED 'FRIEDERICHS' STILL ACTIVE IN GERMANY!!
HAVE BIG DOUBTS ABOUT FAIRNESS!
With regard to SNTV:
With regard to Friederichs: fromwien found it first.
Sorry, 'marmer', all my doubts about fairness belonged to Mr. 'sichel' only
So far, I couldn't not find any word or name similarities between 'Friederichs' and 'Schmitz'. But I feel sure, we will get an answer soon
Quote from: marmer on April 15, 2025, 12:19:34 PM
With regard to SNTV:
With regard to Friederichs: fromwien found it first.
Thanks for the explanation about SNTV, but it should be clear that this transport company was not the coachbuilder.
And don't worry about Friederichs and keep looking. This company is not the solution.
Is it Lampferhoff?
No
Ostermann?
Sorry, but it gets more and more confusing:
According your answers, we are looking for:
..a German coachbuilder which was in financial troubles in the 80s, is currently in business, has or had a connection to 'Friederichs'. The coachbuilder's name sounds like 'Schmitz', was previously specialized in buses, but today they build up other vehicles
I hope, I am right with this short summary
I believe what sichel meant was that Schmitz was about as well known as the puzzle coachbuilder. Somewhat obscure, unlike, say, Kassböhrer or Drögmöller. But I don't yet understand the connection to Friederichs.
@ fromwien: "The coachbuilder's name sounds like 'Schmitz'"
Before you insult other forum participants, you should first work on your English skills.
Wiedler?
Quote from: marmer on April 15, 2025, 02:54:21 PM
I believe what sichel meant was that Schmitz was about as well known as the puzzle coachbuilder. Somewhat obscure, unlike, say, Kassböhrer or Drögmöller. But I don't yet understand the connection to Friederichs.
See #83 und #85: What meaning does the term name recognition mean to You?
Are there different meanings in US English and British English?
My translation programme describes how well known something is.
Adam?
No.
Willenbrock?
Quote from: sichel on April 15, 2025, 02:55:04 PM
"The coachbuilder's name sounds like 'Schmitz'"
Before you insult other forum participants, you should first work on your English skills.
Will try my best. Thanks ;)
Quote from: marmer on April 15, 2025, 02:54:21 PM
I believe what sichel meant was that Schmitz was about as well known as the puzzle coachbuilder. Somewhat obscure, unlike, say, Kassböhrer or Drögmöller. But I don't yet understand the connection to Friederichs.
Thanks for explanation, marmer. The word 'name' led me in a wrong direction
Are we looking for..
..a German coachbuilder which was in financial troubles in the 80s, is currently in business, has or had a connection to 'Friederichs'. The puzzle coachbuilder is as well-known as 'Schmitz', was previously specialized in buses, but today they build up other vehicles?
Is this conclusio right or not?
Quote from: fromwien on April 15, 2025, 03:29:21 PM
Are we looking for..
..a German coachbuilder which was in financial troubles in the 80s, is currently in business, has or had a connection to 'Friederichs'. The puzzle coachbuilder is as well-known as 'Schmitz', was previously specialized in buses, but today they build up other vehicles?
Is this conclusio right or not?
I never commented on the financial situation of the coachbuilder we looking for.
Finding out the connection to Friederichs could help with the solution.
On the subject of 'Schmitz', see #83
Is it Hartmann (Alsfeld)?
Yes. Year of construction is missing. Loccked for three attempts.
Quote from: marmer on April 15, 2025, 04:06:28 PM
Is it Hartmann (Alsfeld)?
:applause:
..you were quicker than me..
Headlights moved to the bumper in 1968, so maybe 1967?
Your reasoning is valid, but my source mentions a much later year of construction. I'm travelling and will clarify this on Thursday.
S.N.T.V. in Algeria was founded in November, 1971, so, maybe 1972? Beyond that, I'd just have to guess year by year.
@marmer, my source mentions 1979 as the year of manufacture.
With the narrow bumper and the headlights in the radiator grille, the heavy bonnet vehicles were still being built for export until the 1980s. But then as 2624.
I can't resolve this contradiction. Either a typo (1979 instead of 1970 or 1969) or a very late conversion...
Therefore, the year of construction is dropped from the assessment and you get your next point.
Thanks! It's a conundrum. I did find a few mentions of a patent for Hartmann for bus body floor construction -- maybe related to the "air sprung floor." That stylized angular "bird" logo is for SNTV, which as I said was founded in 1971 and it is still used by its successor EPE-TV. It could be as late as 1983, I suppose, when the company was reorganized into EPE-TV, but all the pictures I could find that late were of later road-going Mercedes buses. The Algerian government was heavily involved in the management of both cargo transport and passenger transport, with several different agencies. I saw a brief mention in a British book about transport history about buses in North Africa being built on heavy truck all-wheel drive chassis because of poor road conditions but with no further details. I would be willing to believe that this was a converted Kipper or box truck, since it's a 2623. Finally, I could find no connection between the German word "Wüstenschiff" and this vehicle. Mostly it was used either for early Renault buses of the 1930s or for modern overlanding vehicles used by adventurous folks traveling in remote and sometimes dangerous regions. But thanks for the Hartmann brochure. Hartmann's later work is very difficult to find prior to their incorporation into Carl Friederichs GmbH.
Thank you for your further background information.
:applause: