One point for the make and year
(Another picture added as the original one is gone)
Aahh, new stuff! That's great!
Quite difficult for Rookies I think - anyway Experts can have a go shortly
Go Experts Go!
Full stop from Experts.
Last call before it moves on.
Clue - based on a very well known competition make....
based on a Alfa Romeo Stradale?
I see why you thought that but the make that this car was based on was much smaller than Alfa Romeo in terms of production
But it is Italian?
It sure is!
Time for a move up - it might not be easy for the pros also - let's see!
hmmm... It's very unlikely, but is there a connection to Count Volpi?
Nissan-based Laverda?
Count Volpi had no connection with this car and it is nothing to do with Laverda.
We are looking at quite a small car here.
Apologies for the size of the image - maybe I should resize it to help with recognition?
No, leave it like that! ;D Optical illusions are part of the game. :D
Quite a small car means ~ 1.000cc?
Something like Bandini?
Between 1000cc and 1500cc
Fiat engined?
So,...?
Not Fiat
1,3l Alfa Romeo?
Abarth?
In case you didn't mean it also by Fiat.
P.S. Some of your recent puzzles are really interesting, if only I knew the answers...
second that!
My apologies for the delay in answering your replies.
So - engine is not Alfa Romeo but yes it is Abarth.
The engine of 1300cc was designed and built by Abarth.
I don't know if this fact will assist you in discovering the name of the car but I'll leave any further clues until later.
An Angelini or CDS?
Not Angelini or CDS.
They were based on different cars to the puzzle car.
You are on the right line though - it is a post-1965 etceterini
AMS?
Is it the only car known by this name? If not, was this make active before this car?
Allemano - Not AMS
Faksta - It is the only car known by this make.
The car was based on a make that had already been well established before this one-off was built.
Another small clue - the name is a contraction of the constructor's first name and surname.
and another smaller image of the car (apologies to Allemano for the revealing of the true image!)
I have another image of the car that I'll post if there is still difficulty with the identification.
That other make you mentioned - is it De Sanctis (for the chassis)?
Not De Sanctis- far more known than that....
De Tomaso? (Italian at all?)
Is there a Gilco chassis?
Not Gilco
The car that this is based on has already been mentioned.
The question now is who created it and the name he used for the car.
Quote from: woodinsight on September 23, 2010, 02:17:08 PM
(apologies to Allemano for the revealing of the true image!)
???
related to Osella?
Allemano - I was referring to your earlier comment about optical illusions!
It is very Italian and was constructed in Firenze in 1967.
No more clues now - I'm being too generous tonight!
This has stalled somewhat after the last replies, so new clues are needed -
It appeared at the Salone di Torino del 1967 as a vetture da competitzione.
More clues to follow in time......
Quote from: woodinsight on September 23, 2010, 02:50:29 PM
The car that this is based on has already been mentioned.
In another puzzle?
Big clue Carnut - Engine and what the car was based on are the same.......
Another view at Pista del Sole di Firenze when the car was new
Quote from: woodinsight on September 23, 2010, 12:15:35 PMSo - engine is not Alfa Romeo but yes it is Abarth.
The engine of 1300cc was designed and built by Abarth.
Quote from: woodinsight on October 08, 2010, 11:39:36 PM
Big clue Carnut - Engine and what the car was based on are the same.......
Sum-up so far:
It is a small italian one-off from Firenze, built in 1967 and showed at the Torino car show the same year. Based on an Abarth 1300, but the puzzle car is not an Abarth.
Hmm, I'm still searching.
SeaLion, that's correct so far.
The car was shown at Torino in 1967 in the competition car section of the show.
The name of the car is a contraction of the builder's first and second names - so it is xxxxxx-Abarth.
It was intended to compete with the car in the late 1960s but there were severe problems with the transmission and there wasn't enough resources available at the time to solve the problem.
The car apparently exists today, albeit in a sorry state with a large part of the mechanicals missing.
Two puzzles don't let me sleep these days - this one and Djetset's #216 FJ car (well, if we don't take into account Djetset's #182 which kept half of the board sleepless for several weeks and now is a bit forgotten).
That's true Djetset's 216 is a real mystery to me too. No doubt the answer will be revealed in due course.
I also hope that this one can be solved as well.
My source material is in Italian and I'm having to translate sentences at a time. It's a two-page article with quite a lot of background info.
I guess this car is difficult to identify as it never appeared in competition (it was intended to enter the car for the Mugello 500km in 1969) and probably disappeared from view after the project was abandoned. Apparently it was sold and has changed hands several times over the years.
I do have some other names associated with the design/build of the car that I'll post as an additional clue shortly.
ps - and it's not an "April Fools Joke" as my MJW 044 has turned out to be!
An exact race was too much of a hint ;D Is it Fra.Bat?
It doesn't look that bad today after all... http://img39.imageshack.us/g/img0737agx.jpg/ (http://img39.imageshack.us/g/img0737agx.jpg/) Even though the puzzle picture makes it look times better.
WOW!
:applause: Congratulations!
Whew - I hate puzzles disappearing into the dreaded BH.
It is indeed the Fra.Bat-Abarth built by Franco Battista at Firenze in 1967 and based on a Simca-Abarth 1300cc.
The photos you found are excellent - I was expecting to find it a complete wreck today!
Great car!
Congratulations to faksta! :)
Maybe it was called
Frabat in one word? FRABAT T.G.A. - Tecnica Generale Automobilistica
QuoteLa FRABAT
Prototipo "FRABAT" - Auto da corsa costruita da Franco Battista a Firenze nel 1966. Cilindrata 1300 cc.
Beautiful car, I like it!
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8861/frabat1.jpg)
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/4131/frabat2.jpg)
(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3220/frabat4.jpg)
(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1104/frabat6.jpg)
(http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/5831/frabat7.jpg)
(http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/849/frabat10.jpg)
SeaLion, you're probably right, I've found the same source, seemingly relying on no one else than designer's knowledge, and it reads Frabat in one word.
woodinsight, I also don't like the perspective of BH for my puzzles - it means that hardly anyone will be interested in them.
Great find!
I always thought at that car as an Abarth!
Thank you for the extra photographs - wonderful!
I think it probably is Frabat although I've also seen it as Fra.Bat and Fra-Bat.
I'll alter the title in the Solved Puzzles section.
Quote from: faksta on October 12, 2010, 06:23:23 AM
woodinsight, I also don't like the perspective of BH for my puzzles - it means that hardly anyone will be interested in them.
I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean
I meant that if the puzzle goes to the Black Hole, members rarely bother to solve them. I prefer to give more hints than to forward my puzzles to the BH section.
Okay - I see what you mean.
I recently took one of mine out of the BH for exactly the same reason.
Thanks for this one; it's a great little car.
Sorry if my #216 and #182 puzzles are causing you to lose sleep, but I am also avoiding putting them in the Black Hole for the same reasons that you mention, as they may never be solved otherwise!
Don't worry Djetset - myself and I'm sure many others spend numerous sleepless nights dreaming about these!
Frabat on the street:
Thanks for the extra photos Dzima.
I have added one more showing the car being driven at the same event.
What a neat little car!
More images not so far posted:
Thanks for those Carnut - I now have a full file of Frabat photos/information.... ;)
What's this, for 1 point?:
Experts?
Frabat Abarth 1000 sp 1965
Yes that's the right car, although I think it was constructed a couple of years later than that and there are sites that say it's based on an Abarth Simca 1300, though I'm not so sure about that. Maybe it had the Abarth 1300 engine, same as the Abarth Simca 1300s, although most concur that it was based on the Fiat Abarth 1000 SP Spider.
It's actually a repost of this:
https://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/2010-38/solved-mjw-008-frabat-abarth-1967/msg118804/#msg118804
But I won't merge them at the moment as there's not picture in the first post which would come up as a thumbnail.
Here's the original of the puzzle photo:
An alternative picture added to the old starting post and topics merged.
Yes, I thought I might do that tomorrow...!
What is this, and who built it ?
Experts ?
Filipinetti?
Pros ?
Auto Frabat 1965 ?
Quote from: SACO on February 10, 2025, 03:04:14 AM
Auto Frabat 1965 ?
LOCKED for SACO. Who built it? I will accept the chassis designer or the bodywork designer.
Built by Franco Battista !
Correct. The designer is reputed to be Piero Drogo.
One point to you.
Strange advertising :
Merged again..
Thanks. The original search showed nothing - that hyphen again. Your puzzle was hyphen-free but presumably didn't show because it had been included in the first one.