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AutoPuzzles Today => Automotive Book Reviews => Topic started by: Paul Jaray on April 27, 2012, 03:06:24 PM
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There's an interesting project going on here:
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=19922.0
Here is the right place to discuss it.
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Thanks, Paul Jaray.
The reason why I suggested to create this topic is because this is one of the (digital) places where there are more experts, enthusiasts, writers and potential book authors.
And there is also plenty of readers.
And, finally, there are publishers. At least one, that's me, with my small publishing house.
So it could be a great place where ideas born, are discussed, developed and perhaps become real books.
At least with one it already happened: basing on the discussion started in the topic linked above, I've begun writing the "Encyclopaedia of Italian Coachbuilders", that will be approximately ready next year (it's a hard job and both me and my wife are working a lot on it).
So, if anybody of us has an idea, a suggestion, a request for a book that has never been written yet and should be, this is the right place to share it with the other autopuzzlers.
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;)
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This is about a book that HAS been written and is sort of a response to the wish for an encyclopedia of Italian coachbuilders. I'm sure many Autopuzzlers are aware that there's a book called "A-Z British Coachbuilders" by Nick Walker. I got a copy of it some time ago and it's available on amazon.com.
I've looked for books referring to coachbuilders from other countries: French, Italian, German, etc. to no avail. There IS a book called "Dictionary of World Coachbuilders and Car Stylists" which is out of print and supposedly available in CD-ROM or DVD form, but I haven't found a way to order it yet. I'd prefer it that way, since it's easier (for me) to search my computer than go thru a book, page by page...and I've accumulated a fair number of car books over the years. So I'll keep looking for the CD/DVD format stuff.
RtR
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Ray, you mean Marian-Suman Hreblay's list? I can get you a copy - but you have to be patient. I already promised PJ to get hold of a Czech book for him, but it will take a bit of time
As for the world of coachbuilders, just a few tidbits: Nick Georgano&Co created an Encyclopedia of World coachbuilders, but it is far, far from complete.
There's a book on Swedish coachbuilders, Jan Kralik published a few books on Czech coachbuilders (like Uhlik, Petera etc.), Jan Tulis wrote a book on Sodomka. D'Ieteren in Belgium self-published a book on their own history including coachbuilding years. Serge Bellu just published an Encyclopedia of French coachbuilders.
There's already a book on Italian coachbuilders, though it is far from complete.
And magyarjarmu.hu will have a list of Hungarian coachbuilders soon (hopefully within two weeks)
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Ray, you mean Marian-Suman Hreblay's list? I can get you a copy - but you have to be patient. I already promised PJ to get hold of a Czech book for him, but it will take a bit of time
Yes. I've sent an email to Mr. Hreblay. If he responds, I'll get it directly from him and save you the trouble. If not, I may ask to rely on you to get me one. Time isn't a problem. I've got the rest of my life. :) And here in a little while, I'm going to be real busy because car show season is starting up (I do a lot of photography at shows) and then salt flats season will begin in August (I photograph all events for landracing.com)...and I still need to get my race car fixed. When it went "BANG', it broke the transmission. :'( There's plenty of work to do.
As for the world of coachbuilders, just a few tidbits: Nick Georgano&Co created an Encyclopedia of World coachbuilders, but it is far, far from complete.
Is that "The Beaulieu Encyclopedia of the Automobile: Coachbuilding?" If so, it's a bit expensive at $250. I could use that money on my race car. ::)
There's a book on Swedish coachbuilders, Jan Kralik published a few books on Czech coachbuilders (like Uhlik, Petera etc.), Jan Tulis wrote a book on Sodomka. D'Ieteren in Belgium self-published a book on their own history including coachbuilding years. Serge Bellu just published an Encyclopedia of French coachbuilders.
There's already a book on Italian coachbuilders, though it is far from complete.
I guess I have a little more searching to do. Thank you very much for those titles and authors.
And magyarjarmu.hu will have a list of Hungarian coachbuilders soon (hopefully within two weeks)
Now that sounds pretty good! However, I'm not sure I have enough time to learn the Magyar language. ::) I suppose I'll have to rely on Google Translate. :) I just used it on the home page and it does a pretty good job.
Again, thanks for the resources. It's time for me to go to bed and I guess you're just starting your day. I hope it's a good one for you.
RtR
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The books I'd buy immediatly:
A decent book about Japanese and Brazilian cars and one about kit cars, replicas etc outside UK and USA.
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Well I would say a good book on South American cars would be welcome.
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The problem with most books and probably the ones mentioned above (I don't know because I haven't seen all of them) is that they are notable more for what is missing than for what they contain.
The book of Italian Carrozzeria, the one book that is the most important of them all, is such a vast subject it must be impossible to do it all in one volume and is such a massive undertaking I'm not really surprised no-one has attempted it properly yet..
I applaud Alessandro's intention to do it and am sure he will give it the full attention it most surely deserves, and I for one can't wait for it!
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I got an email from Marian-Suman Hreblay who tells me that his CD won't be available until July and it will be text only with no photos. I'm still thinking this over as to whether it's a good thing or not.
Anyway, I'd sure go for info on both South American and kit cars. Those are both good ideas.
RtR
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A couple of considerations about the "Italian Carrozzieri" book, beacuse your feedbacks are always very useful..
For sure it will be impossible to cover in one book all the different cars coachbuilt and styled in Italy. I already did it for Fiat cars and I've published so far 12 books and covered less then a half of the different base-models.
What I will do is something similar to Georgano's Beaulieu Encyclpaedia in terms of layout and approach.
I'm planning to include a short story of each brand and illustrate it with some sample pictures (maybe 1 or 2 for the minor ones, maybe 30 or 50 for Bertone and Pininfarina).
Also, I'm planning to have a "car-oriented" approach in the brand selection: coachbuilders that made racing-cars, passenger-cars, minivan, car-based ambulances and hearses, but not truck, buses or military vehicles.
Do you think I'm in the right direction?
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The books I'd buy immediatly:
A decent book about Japanese and Brazilian cars and one about kit cars, replicas etc outside UK and USA.
The best book about Japanese (mainstream production) cars I found so far is ‘ The 20th century of the Japanese automobile’. Biggest disadvantages are that it only contains the production cars of the mainstream brands and that it is written in Japanese only. Only the title is in English! Even the brands and model names are in Japanese. I’m not an expert in Japanses cars, so for me this source is not really a big help in identifying the cars (that’s why I can easily give this source away on Autopuzzles) but it gives a very good impression of which Japanese automobiles have been made in the 20th century. Due to my lack of experience with Japanese cars, I do not know how complete it is. A nice gimmick is that it is bounded ‘Japanese style’ (The book starts at the back). I just love this book!
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Another 75+ puzzles that now will never happen ;)
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A couple of considerations about the "Italian Carrozzieri" book, beacuse your feedbacks are always very useful..
For sure it will be impossible to cover in one book all the different cars coachbuilt and styled in Italy. I already did it for Fiat cars and I've published so far 12 books and covered less then a half of the different base-models.
What I will do is something similar to Georgano's Beaulieu Encyclpaedia in terms of layout and approach.
I'm planning to include a short story of each brand and illustrate it with some sample pictures (maybe 1 or 2 for the minor ones, maybe 30 or 50 for Bertone and Pininfarina).
Also, I'm planning to have a "car-oriented" approach in the brand selection: coachbuilders that made racing-cars, passenger-cars, minivan, car-based ambulances and hearses, but not truck, buses or military vehicles.
Do you think I'm in the right direction?
To reach an as large as possible audience, this will indeed be the correct and most logic approach.
The 2 biggest setbacks about the Beaulieu for me are:
A lot of coachbuilders are missing, so be as complete as possible
The Beaulieu works with a ‘main list’ and a ‘supplementary list’ which makes it harder to find something back, so work with only 1 list.
From all of your books, this is the one that needs English text absolutely the most. So I hope that it will be foreseen.
What I would add is a map of Italy, with a detailed shot of Turin (and possibly Milan) that indicates where the carrozzieri were located (although some of the carrozzieri moved a couple of times so I have not figured out yet how to cope with that on the map.
I would also add a list (including some basic info) of the important men behind the Italian coachbuilding industry. And not only Italian ones but for example also Dany Brawand, Tom Tjaarda,…
And a timeline summary that gives a clear overview of when the companies were active.
When reading about carrozzieri, I have always the impression that everybody knew everybody and that they all worked together.
The problem is that the ‘complete picture’ is always missing so what I also would love to see (although I don’t know how to do it) is an overview with the links between the different companies/people
All the above mentioned suggestions can maybe be combined in 1 general chapter.
Obviously, because this is the concept of an encyclopedia, the most important companies like Pininfarina and Bertone will get the biggest attention (with their most famous creations).
But for us ‘experts’, there is already enough information available on the market about these big ones and their big successes. We (or at least me) are in particular looking for more information about the ‘small’ ones (and that is relative because even about a giant like Vignale, little to nothing has been published). And concerning the big ones, I’m looking for more information about their lesser known creations like the 1956 DKW Pininfarina, 1978 Autobianchi A 112 Zagato,…
But I think that this might be the theme for yet another book called something like ‘The forgotten and unsuccessful creations of the Italian Carrozzieri’.
As always I’m fully prepared to help where I can!
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Thanks for the suggestions.
The book will indeed be published in two editions: Italian and English.
The list will be only one (as in a regular encyclopaedia) and I've foressen a "cross-reference" index of people, to have connections to the companies they have been involved in.
I've also foressen a geographical index (by province) and I got the suggestion to add some maps, if it will be technically feasible.
The timeline will be hard, but I'll try to invent a way to graphically represent it.
About the names, however, I agree with you. I don't think too many space would be required to the "usual" Bertone, Pininfarina and Zagato. There is plenty of books about them that will always be better and most comprehenisve than mine.
I'll rather focus on minor brands, trying to include as many of them as I know.
I think is more interesting to know what Carrozzeria Ansaloni actually made or even that Boglietti Brothers did exsist in the Twenties in Biella (it's the only info I've about them, from a period magazin ad ;)).
Another thing, not directly related. If you consider Viotti as one of the coachbuilders that deserve a book, you will soon have one. I'm writing the last chapter right now... (and it will be also in English).
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A couple of considerations about the "Italian Carrozzieri" book, beacuse your feedbacks are always very useful..
For sure it will be impossible to cover in one book all the different cars coachbuilt and styled in Italy. I already did it for Fiat cars and I've published so far 12 books and covered less then a half of the different base-models.
What I will do is something similar to Georgano's Beaulieu Encyclpaedia in terms of layout and approach.
I'm planning to include a short story of each brand and illustrate it with some sample pictures (maybe 1 or 2 for the minor ones, maybe 30 or 50 for Bertone and Pininfarina).
Also, I'm planning to have a "car-oriented" approach in the brand selection: coachbuilders that made racing-cars, passenger-cars, minivan, car-based ambulances and hearses, but not truck, buses or military vehicles.
Do you think I'm in the right direction?
Absolutely!
You can do another one for buses, another for trucks etc etc.
A job for life!
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Thanks for the suggestions.
The book will indeed be published in two editions: Italian and English.
The list will be only one (as in a regular encyclopaedia) and I've foressen a "cross-reference" index of people, to have connections to the companies they have been involved in.
I've also foressen a geographical index (by province) and I got the suggestion to add some maps, if it will be technically feasible.
The timeline will be hard, but I'll try to invent a way to graphically represent it.
About the names, however, I agree with you. I don't think too many space would be required to the "usual" Bertone, Pininfarina and Zagato. There is plenty of books about them that will always be better and most comprehenisve than mine.
I'll rather focus on minor brands, trying to include as many of them as I know.
I think is more interesting to know what Carrozzeria Ansaloni actually made or even that Boglietti Brothers did exsist in the Twenties in Biella (it's the only info I've about them, from a period magazin ad ;)).
Another thing, not directly related. If you consider Viotti as one of the coachbuilders that deserve a book, you will soon have one. I'm writing the last chapter right now... (and it will be also in English).
Personally I would prefer to see Pre-WW2 in one volume and post-WW2 in another. I think most enthusiasts favour one period or the other not always both.
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I´ve written with a friend of mine a book about Brazilian specialist cars, but due to the lack of money to pay the pictures copyright it´s not published yet :(
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Another thing, not directly related. If you consider Viotti as one of the coachbuilders that deserve a book, you will soon have one. I'm writing the last chapter right now... (and it will be also in English).
:thumbsup: Yes Viotti definitely deserves it's own book!
The only 'book' I currently own about Viotti is the one from Fornai, which is, as we all know, not that great.
But maybe you can use it as a check to see if you have at least covered everything that he has mentioned.
Is the publishing of the book related to the recent resurrection of Carrozzeria Viotti?
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Yes, I've double-checked Fornai's book, although a wide part of the information comes from my "Fiat fuoriserie books" - and so the circle is closed... ;)
The Viotti book is not directly related to the revival of the brand. Actually, I did a historical research work for them (all the stuff you find on their website) and finally realized how interesting the story is and decided to write it down. But they are not involved in the book. It covers only the 1921-1964 period.
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Is it the start of a new series of books?
:hyper:
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Do you have a cristall-ball to look into? ;D
Francis Lombardi and Coriasco will probably be the next ones... But the priority is for the "Encyclopaedia" (even if right now the only one working on that is my wife, which is compiling the brand-list going through several books and magazines and taking note of evey useful info).
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I'll have them all!
About the Encyclopedia, is there a way to help? I mean you will be far ahead and it will be useless for us to give you a list of Coachbuilders we know...and I don't think it will be a good idea for you to give us the list you have (it will spoil your work, wouldn't it?).
I think we can help you better if you give us some tasks...for example, I'm sure you will take note of the Coachbuilders in the last pages of the book 'La sport e i suoi Artigiani', and the same goes with the few ones in Georgano's Encyclopedia, so I don't think you'll need those names.
In the first 200 issues of Quattroruote and in the Enciclopedia MilleRuote that are in my index there are not new names, (except in the last pages of 4R, where there are some 'selfbuilt' cars for sale)...but I can easily double check.
There are few unknown ones in the magazine Ruoteclassiche and I have the whole collection with the index...if you did not, I can have a look there.
...beside that there are some pictures and info from the web, of obscure cars 'built by italian coachbuilder xxxx'. I think those can be a good point to start with.
BTW: I have 13 books of yours about Fuoriserie, not 12...
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I think it will not be a problem to share the brand list with you and a few other experts. I'm sure you will nevertheless buy the book... ;D And that will help filling the gaps. I'll send it you as soon as it will be at a good level.
What my wife is currently doing is indeed to go through those main books (Le Sport, Georgano's encyclopaedia, Hreblay's dictionary, Biscaretti's Carrozzieri, ...), magazines, motor-show catalogues, ANFIA pubblications, to compile a list of names and references that I'll use as the base to wrtite each one's history.
It's a good team-work.
One support you could do, if you want, is to share with us the index of Ruoteclassiche. I never had the time to compile it and so it would save us a lot of time.
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It was annex to #200 and #261...I'll look for it
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Just to say that we are going ahead... 418 coachbuilders listed till now.
And this is a draft of the cover.
Any suggestion is always welcome. ;)
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Very nice! I like it! :thumbsup:
RtR
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Just to say that we are going ahead... 418 coachbuilders listed till now.
And this is a draft of the cover.
Any suggestion is always welcome. ;)
Nice to see there is already a lot of progress in this project! :thumbsup:
I expected a lot of coachbuilders...but not 418!
I believe that the background on the cover is part of the Alfa Romeo 4C.
If that's correct and if I can give my suggestions, I'd say that in my opinion it's a bit strange to put an in-house Centro Stile Alfa Romeo designed car (although the car was propably made by an Italian coachbuilder) on the cover of a book about coachbuilders.
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I believe that the background on the cover is part of the Alfa Romeo 4C.
If that's correct and if I can give my suggestions, I'd say that in my opinion it's a bit strange to put an in-house Centro Stile Alfa Romeo designed car (although the car was propably made by an Italian coachbuilder) on the cover of a book about coachbuilders.
Wow! I'm tempted to award you a point... ;)
But, yes, it i's indeed the 4C and it was also my biggest concern. It's just a visual proposal to see if my grpahic idea worked, however, and this was the best hi-res picture I had in my hands at that moment; probably I'll change it for the final version with a more representative one.
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When I'm at home I will send you another design if you like.
I agree with 75america to swap the Alfa 4C with a classical coachbuilt car picture.
I like your cover as well, esp. the typograpy is nice. Only thing I would change is the square size of the book. I would prefer a rather horizontal format, but that's purely a matter of taste...
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Thanks: any suggestion is indeed very useful.
About the square size, generally I agree with you about the horizontal (just because cars are longer than heigh). And in fact my series of book "Historica" is in "album" fromat 27x19 cm.
But this time I'm quite forced by the internal layout.
Organizing the book in columns (as an encyclopaedia must be), three is the best layout in terms of balancing between text width and pictures size. However, the regular A4R would have had too wide columns and too big pcitures, while 27x19 is too small.
I think I'll use 25x24 or 25x27 (that means 7 cm wide columns and basic pictures, with important models spanning on 2 or 3 columns), but I still need to discuss with the printer to find the most efficient format also in terms of cost.
And this is a very preliminary draft of the internal design.
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I'll leave room for this book since now....
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Alessandro, that is simply amazing! :o I'm in queue for a (signed ;) ) copy of your new book for sure!
Also, that Ala D'Oro story... seems familiar :D
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Can I, based on the page you posted, conclude that Accossato is reponsable for that Fiat Ritmo Pick-up from 1985?
I always thought they stopped their activities a long time before 1985.
To avoid confusion (based on the mentioned info, also Adriano could have been responsable), I suggest to include the coachbuilder’s name in each photo caption.
E.g. “Sotto: ACCOSSATO Fiat Ritmo autocarro (1985)”
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Yes, it's Accossato. Or, to be precise, not Ernesto Accossato himself but his former employee Antonio Palmaro, that bought the brand around 1960.
He is still working today and made similar pick-up conversions on second-hand 132, Argenta, Regata, Tempra and Marea. Today he mainly makes few dropside upfitting works on Scudo and Ducato.
About the page design: you are indeed right. Working on columns, the brand name must be in the captions too.
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Here you are some layout suggestions I made on the weekend as I'm very inspired by the idea of books like that.
Hope you like it.
(design_10 wasn't that orange at home. :-\ It always depends on the screen you have, but it wasn't intended be too so saturated)
Unfortunately I didn't have the correct editor's logo at hand.
BTW: a horizontal layout doesn't neccessarily mean avoidance of columns when you stretch the columns' width a bit. ;)
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Thank you! Your covers look great. I like in particular the design of the first (perhaps with the colors of the last).
The time before the book will be ready is still long, but for sure we will consider your proposals during the final choice of the cover.
Thank you very much!
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In fact, a french book has been published on this theme : "Carrosserie italienne, du style au design", by Serge Bellu.
A beautifully illustrated book, but not as such an encyclopaedia.
I suppose that the Fornai series is an attempt to do so. I have four of these, but it is interesting yet very badly made... and still quite expensive for what it is.
Anyway, I'll be glad to buy you one when yours will be released. Keep the good work !
Would it be only in italian, or is there a project to do an english version ?
For me, the great project of publishing houses would be to create some kind of "joint-venture", joining efforts to publish the best books of each country in english.
That is the main problem for me : I only read french and english. I can figure a bit of italian, but not much !
This is quite frustrating, as for most obscure brands, you can only find books in "original" language.
For example, a Glas book would only be in german, most Tatra historical stuff in is Czech, etc...
I'm sure that if there was one "global" publishing structure, printing good books in english from europe, japan, usa, etc... it could be a profitable business. Even for forgotten brands, there are worldwide sufficient numbers of petrolheads who'd love to read something good in a "readable" language.
Speaking about italian brands, I'm really frustrated to be unable to read Giuseppe Busso and Domenico Chirico biographies, as I'm a big Alfa Romeo fan.
Anyway, one dream book I'd buy instantly : the encyclopaedia of concept-cars !
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In fact, a french book has been published on this theme : "Carrosserie italienne, du style au design", by Serge Bellu.
A beautifully illustrated book, but not as such an encyclopaedia.
I suppose that the Fornai series is an attempt to do so. I have four of these, but it is interesting yet very badly made... and still quite expensive for what it is.
Anyway, I'll be glad to buy you one when yours will be released. Keep the good work !
Would it be only in italian, or is there a project to do an english version ?
For me, the great project of publishing houses would be to create some kind of "joint-venture", joining efforts to publish the best books of each country in english.
That is the main problem for me : I only read french and english. I can figure a bit of italian, but not much !
This is quite frustrating, as for most obscure brands, you can only find books in "original" language.
For example, a Glas book would only be in german, most Tatra historical stuff in is Czech, etc...
I'm sure that if there was one "global" publishing structure, printing good books in english from europe, japan, usa, etc... it could be a profitable business. Even for forgotten brands, there are worldwide sufficient numbers of petrolheads who'd love to read something good in a "readable" language.
Speaking about italian brands, I'm really frustrated to be unable to read Giuseppe Busso and Domenico Chirico biographies, as I'm a big Alfa Romeo fan.
Anyway, one dream book I'd buy instantly : the encyclopaedia of concept-cars !
The Encyclopaedia of concept-cars will be definetly a book to have!
About the readable language, I've got the same problem with my project.
I need to translate some books (1st of all these:
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=16938.0
http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=12487.0).
I've tried to scan those books and to use an OCR program, then translate via internet but it's too long.
I'd love to exchange those files with the books (or any other) for help...with anyone who can read a Svedish or a Dutch book!
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Anyway, one dream book I'd buy instantly : the encyclopaedia of concept-cars !
The Encyclopaedia of concept-cars will be definetly a book to have!
I definitely agree with you. It would be a huge book, but it is a "must be written". Perhaps, if any (or some) of us will try to write il, I can consider publishing it after the Italian carrozzieri. If I don't loose all my money with that book, of course... ;)
Perhaps it could be organized on three volumes: 1st - European, 2nd - American - 3rd Japanese and rest-of-the-world.
For me, the great project of publishing houses would be to create some kind of "joint-venture", joining efforts to publish the best books of each country in english.
That is the main problem for me : I only read french and english. I can figure a bit of italian, but not much !
This is quite frustrating, as for most obscure brands, you can only find books in "original" language.
For example, a Glas book would only be in german, most Tatra historical stuff in is Czech, etc...
This is another good point. I think that a good basic book in English for each country with "minor" automotive industry would be great. I mean, it wouln't make any sense writing "Cars made in France" or "Cars made in Germany" because they must each one be made by 10 volumes. But a nice "Cars made in The Netherlands" or "Cars made in Hungary" ( ;)) could be very interesting.
And perhaps we have here at Autopuzzles the right experts to write them.
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Thank you! Your covers look great. I like in particular the design of the first (perhaps with the colors of the last).
The time before the book will be ready is still long, but for sure we will consider your proposals during the final choice of the cover.
Thank you very much!
I think I prefer the first cover (with the Alfa 4C) cause it's cleaner... and I think it's not good for a Enciclopaedia to have only one car on the cover... maybe you can do like for the rear of Fiat Fuoriserie books... with a lot of little pics of cars (B&W!!) with a neutral background...
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Thank you! Your covers look great. I like in particular the design of the first (perhaps with the colors of the last).
The time before the book will be ready is still long, but for sure we will consider your proposals during the final choice of the cover.
Thank you very much!
I think I prefer the first cover (with the Alfa 4C) cause it's cleaner... and I think it's not good for a Encyclopedia to have only one car on the cover
I agree about the first shot. If not, then Sannia's-Enzyclopaedie_12.jpg (the "green" photo.) I don't care for the sepia or reddish tone on the monochrome (and emblem) image.
I think the green is the "strongest" cover/image, but the Alfa 4C is the classiest.
For whatever a rat's opinion is worth.
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This is another good point. I think that a good basic book in English for each country with "minor" automotive industry would be great. I mean, it wouln't make any sense writing "Cars made in France" or "Cars made in Germany" because they must each one be made by 10 volumes. But a nice "Cars made in The Netherlands" or "Cars made in Hungary" ( ;)) could be very interesting.
And perhaps we have here at Autopuzzles the right experts to write them.
Hear, hear :)
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I'd love to exchange those files with the books (or any other) for help...with anyone who can read a Svedish or a Dutch book!
I offer my help with the translation of the Dutch book.
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Great!
PM sent!
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Maybe its on page 1 of your book but if not, do not forget to include 'Accamo & Moneta'
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Maybe its on page 1 of your book but if not, do not forget to include 'Accamo & Moneta'
>:( Poor start. I just put down half of the first page and I'm already missing one name...
Have you any further information about this brand?
And - if I can ask - which is the source?
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Have you any further information about this brand?
And - if I can ask - which is the source?
Source is Auto & Design magazine issue #18 (April/May 1983). Subject is the Lancia Selene, a 'landaulet' conversion of the Delta.
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The Encyclopaedia of concept-cars will be definetly a book to have!
This book already exists — unfortunately for one decade only. http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=8916.0
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I just read that our late member Siata1, Georg Amtmann, together with the German author Stefan Dierkes compiled more than 4000 special bodied cars from 1945 to 1985. This piece of work hasn't been published yet.
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I just read that our late member Siata1, Georg Amtmann, together with the German author Stefan Dierkes compiled more than 4000 special bodied cars from 1945 to 1985. This piece of work hasn't been published yet.
It would be a wonderful tribute to him if it were published.
Hopefully a publisher will be found......
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I just read that our late member Siata1, Georg Amtmann, together with the German author Stefan Dierkes compiled more than 4000 special bodied cars from 1945 to 1985. This piece of work hasn't been published yet.
Yes, I read that as well. Will ask Stefan Dierkes if this procect progresses.
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Yust to share your opinion... Should one compile a book about concept-cars, which cars should be included?
Only extreme and futuristic cars without any relation with production or also other kinds?
Alternative energy-powered (e.g. Ford e-Ka)?
Special versions of production cars (e.g. Chrysler 300 Hemi, Mini Clubman Van)?
Previews (e.g. Fiat Simba)?
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Sorry, but I didn't forget... Just sent him an email today.
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Yust to share your opinion... Should one compile a book about concept-cars, which cars should be included?
Only extreme and futuristic cars without any relation with production or also other kinds?
Alternative energy-powered (e.g. Ford e-Ka)?
Special versions of production cars (e.g. Chrysler 300 Hemi, Mini Clubman Van)?
Previews (e.g. Fiat Simba)?
Roger Gloor did it in his 80s concept car book that he included only serious concepts mostly shown on car fairs by independent design studios or concepts by big car companies.
He didn't differentiate between alternative-driven or combustion powered vehicles, but also featured special bodied cars like Boneschi's Lancia Gazella.
The book is a BIG volume though he tackles only one decade of concept cars...
So, to keep it from getting too wide I would suggest to ignore the most extreme excesses, but that's only my point of view.
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If if if if if if I'll do that (time and money are, unfortunately, limited), I'd focus on single decades too. The evaluation I'm doing is now on the most recent: 2000-2009, with the idea of coming back later. And the first sensitivity is that even these single decade has seen about 500 different concept-cars.
Hence, I'm wondering if electric versions of regular cars or anticipations of regular cars are actually interesting or if it could be better (and lighter) to focus only on "real" concept cars.
And of course only the ones made by real companies (not self-made attempts) or shown at major shows.
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A book about 1990s concept cars would fill a gap as well... ;)
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I just read that our late member Siata1, Georg Amtmann, together with the German author Stefan Dierkes compiled more than 4000 special bodied cars from 1945 to 1985. This piece of work hasn't been published yet.
Mr. Dierkes replied and says that it's not a book, but a multi-author data-base.
Unfortunately there are some glitches regarding sponsorship and appropriate software, so, the project is temporarily shelved...
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If if if if if if I'll do that (time and money are, unfortunately, limited), I'd focus on single decades too. The evaluation I'm doing is now on the most recent: 2000-2009, with the idea of coming back later. And the first sensitivity is that even these single decade has seen about 500 different concept-cars.
Hence, I'm wondering if electric versions of regular cars or anticipations of regular cars are actually interesting or if it could be better (and lighter) to focus only on "real" concept cars.
And of course only the ones made by real companies (not self-made attempts) or shown at major shows.
I think that a similar book should focus on real concepts, but with a minor section with a review of those other cars...
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Yust to share your opinion... Should one compile a book about concept-cars, which cars should be included?
Only extreme and futuristic cars without any relation with production or also other kinds?
Alternative energy-powered (e.g. Ford e-Ka)?
Special versions of production cars (e.g. Chrysler 300 Hemi, Mini Clubman Van)?
Previews (e.g. Fiat Simba)?
For the book to really interest me it would be styling/design concepts rather than technical concepts.
Something that looks wild/out of the ordinary. A picture of a Golf with an electric motor would be boring!
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Basically, I agree with you. I think that concentrating on styling and design trends and innovation would be the most interesting approach.
The BIG question is if a book featuring 500 cars (so, roughly 500 pages) about a single decade would acatually be commercially sustainable.
I mean, how many enthusiasts would buy a small series of 6-7 books (from the 50s to the 00s) at 60-70 € each one?
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There's a German design professor who already has published many books on icons of car design. While the unknowingly (?) critics are praising this glossy publications I'm rather bored... It's always – like in so many other automotive design books – about the same 10-20 cars. Citroen DS/2CV, 300 SL Gullwing, Porsche 911, Chevy Corvette, Jaguar E, Ferrari Daytona, cars with tailfins, wedge design cars.. (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g106/pan1968/Gifs/0001.gif)
Only speaking for myself I would prefer a book about the forgotten and weird concept cars or dead-end trends...
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My idea would be a sort of "concept-car directory". One page per car with good pictures and key-facts about every single concept-car shown at any motor-show. For sure, a complete (if ever possible) list and not a selection. Also for me, the less know the more interesting. I'm only afraid of the number of pages and the cover price that would result... ???
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My idea would be a sort of "concept-car directory". One page per car with good pictures and key-facts about every single concept-car shown at any motor-show. For sure, a complete (if ever possible) list and not a selection. Also for me, the less know the more interesting. I'm only afraid of the number of pages and the cover price that would result... ???
I'll be your client... ;D
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There's a German design professor who already has published many books on icons of car design. While the unknowingly (?) critics are praising this glossy publications I'm rather bored... It's always – like in so many other automotive design books – about the same 10-20 cars. Citroen DS/2CV, 300 SL Gullwing, Porsche 911, Chevy Corvette, Jaguar E, Ferrari Daytona, cars with tailfins, wedge design cars.. (http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g106/pan1968/Gifs/0001.gif)
Only speaking for myself I would prefer a book about the forgotten and weird concept cars or dead-end trends...
Agree 100%.
The number of times I pick up a "new" book only to put it straight back on the shelf when I see it's just a re-hash of the same old stuff - even exactly the same interior posing as a new book in a shiny new cover!
Quite enough has already been written about all the cars you mention; I'm pretty sure there is NOTHING new to be written about them!
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My idea would be a sort of "concept-car directory". One page per car with good pictures and key-facts about every single concept-car shown at any motor-show. For sure, a complete (if ever possible) list and not a selection. Also for me, the less know the more interesting. I'm only afraid of the number of pages and the cover price that would result... ???
If it was one book that's the one I would want to take with me to the proverbial desert island!
Also, I would tend to gloss over the very well-known concepts with just a small picture and a few words and concentrate on the more obscure ones. But I would prefer to see fewer books than just one per decade because of the cost, although I know the sheer number of cars could preclude that.
There are already quite a few concept car books, but whilst most of them do have some interesting pictures in them they are notable for what's not in them rather than what is..
I'm always bitterly disappointed when a book is not comprehensive!
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I'm always bitterly disappointed when a book is not comprehensive!
Same here! :-\
I have books about Porsche specials and about BMW specials (...) and I guess I've found here at least three or four times more on that subject than these quite big volumes are featuring...
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I'm always bitterly disappointed when a book is not comprehensive!
Same here! :-\
I have books about Porsche specials and about BMW specials (...) and I guess I've found here at least three or four times more on that subject than these quite big volumes are featuring...
What I hate is that many of those books have words on them as "complete" or rely on famous people (famous from TV that is) to sell them.
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I wish someone would write a book covering every aspect of the Lancia Aprilia. Nothing on that car was conventional, apart from the upholstery and the spark plugs!
Also, biographies and work histories on the likes of Henri Toutee, Nemorin Causan, and Emile Petit.
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Hello Everyone I am new to this site. We all know how incomplete alot of the books on automobile manufacturers and coachbuilders are. Beaulieu is a good book but far from complete as stated by many. I am looking for people to work on a project that if we can get it prepared would be the most comprehensive ever written on the subject. We can take the stuff from beaulieu and other books and sites and what we now know what they are lacking and be better. My proposal is this we make a collection of books one for each letter of the alphabet and in it we but every single automobile manufacturer and coachbuilder we can find. Now you might say it would be impossible to do. But beaulieu started exactly as we are starting now just one person looking for another person and so on. Now this is something that never would be complete but once we publish the main collection every two or so years we can come out with an update that shows the new manufacturers and or coachbuilders. Now something like this would take a lot of time to get everything assembled but if we have a team of people it would be easier. In terms of coachbuilders we have italy mostly squared away with the book of italian coachbuilders that will be coming out. I would like to hear opinions on this. Such a collection would be a mammoth project but I think the final product out ways the hard work. What Do u guys think.
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Hello Everyone I am new to this site. We all know how incomplete alot of the books on automobile manufacturers and coachbuilders are. Beaulieu is a good book but far from complete as stated by many. I am looking for people to work on a project that if we can get it prepared would be the most comprehensive ever written on the subject. We can take the stuff from beaulieu and other books and sites and what we now know what they are lacking and be better. My proposal is this we make a collection of books one for each letter of the alphabet and in it we but every single automobile manufacturer and coachbuilder we can find. Now you might say it would be impossible to do. But beaulieu started exactly as we are starting now just one person looking for another person and so on. Now this is something that never would be complete but once we publish the main collection every two or so years we can come out with an update that shows the new manufacturers and or coachbuilders. Now something like this would take a lot of time to get everything assembled but if we have a team of people it would be easier. In terms of coachbuilders we have italy mostly squared away with the book of italian coachbuilders that will be coming out. I would like to hear opinions on this. Such a collection would be a mammoth project but I think the final product out ways the hard work. What Do u guys think.
I'm in!
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica)
They started with the same aim... But my feeling is that such a work on cars would even get bigger.
Frankly speaking, is not the contents that worry me: with the support of Internet and enough people and time, I can suppose that a sufficient level can be reached.
The real problem is the cost and the potential market of such a huge collection of books. How many people will buy a 1,000 USD car encyclopaedia?
And who will be ready today to invest 100,000 USD to publish it?
Nevertheless, I'll be in too, if the project goes ahead!
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Ciao rosenbergm,
wellcome to autopuzzles.
I'm working on a similar project since I was young: ( http://www.autopuzzles.com/forum/index.php?topic=10302.0;viewResults).
I started like that, filling a list of each and every maker (but also one-offs, racers, selfbuilts. etc) I find in my books. I reached today 15500 makers an 94000 models and 11000 circa are in my hd where I collect the material from the web (but among those 11000 are many of the ones featured in my books too).
I don't think, I know, it's a quite impossible task, but such an exciting hobby.
I received some lists from other members too and my goal will be to match the 11000 folders in my HD with all the lists I have and with my index.
Of course I'm in...I've always been!
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I'm working on a similar project since I was young:
But surely you still are?!!
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This is a little bit off of strictly automobiles, but I have in my library several books by the German author Werner Oswald. Histories of German cars pre and post war, Mercedes cars and trucks, BMW etc. All well done and well researched.
He passed away some years ago and I recall on other forums some discussions that indicated he had intended to do histories of German trucks, pre and post war but the books were never finished. Some of the German members of those forums indicated they were trying to track down his archives/collection to see if the books could be done by someone else. I never saw an answer.
Perhaps some of our German members here may wish to check to see if those files were ever recovered and if they are available to legitimate researchers.
On that same note, Bart Vanderveen. who wrote many books on military and civilian vehicles for Olyslager in Holland and Warne Publishing in the UK also had several titles in the pipeline when he passed away. His wife sold/donated his entire collection to a Dutch WWII museum and the owner of that museum apparently refused to let anyone access the collection. Later, that museum was sold to someone else and I lost track of it.
I knew Bart fairly well and swapped materiels with him for years for his books and also visited him several times in the UK and later Holland. I can attest that his collection was incredible and his books only captured parts of his collection. Again, maybe some of our Dutch members can try to pick up that thread again and see if they can find the collection.
Just some thoughts.
Bill
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I'm working on a similar project since I was young:
But surely you still are?!!
Well, much younger... ;D
(BTW who cares, I'll have my last birthday tomorrow...I'm one of the few who can say that my birthday party will be the end of the world!)
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Frankly speaking, is not the contents that worry me: with the support of Internet and enough people and time, I can suppose that a sufficient level can be reached.
The real problem is the cost and the potential market of such a huge collection of books. How many people will buy a 1,000 USD car encyclopaedia?
And who will be ready today to invest 100,000 USD to publish it?
I totally agree with this... in my opinion this is not a project that can become a book (or a collection of books) just because if you print the book, when you have it finished there will be a lot of new info to be added... so it's a neverending book... so it's not a book...
I think that the only solution to the problem is to create something on the web. I'm trying to create a database of italian coachbuilders, unluckly it grows really slowly as I have not enough time, but a database of "all the cars" can be the final solution...
Autopuzzles is a good source for infos, and maybe the first step could be a review of all the cars of AP (from the Solved Puzzles) which are a lot but without an order...
Last but not least there can be problems of classification...
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I'm working on a similar project since I was young:
But surely you still are?!!
Well, much younger... ;D
(BTW who cares, I'll have my last birthday tomorrow...I'm one of the few who can say that my birthday party will be the end of the world!)
You could always nip down to the French Pyrenees and hop on that alien spacecraft that's going to evactuate certain chosen individuals; I'm sure you would qualify with your vast automotive knowledge, which might be useful on another planet!
At least that way you could celebrate another birthday next year..
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This is a little bit off of strictly automobiles, but I have in my library several books by the German author Werner Oswald. Histories of German cars pre and post war, Mercedes cars and trucks, BMW etc. All well done and well researched.
He passed away some years ago and I recall on other forums some discussions that indicated he had intended to do histories of German trucks, pre and post war but the books were never finished. Some of the German members of those forums indicated they were trying to track down his archives/collection to see if the books could be done by someone else. I never saw an answer.
Perhaps some of our German members here may wish to check to see if those files were ever recovered and if they are available to legitimate researchers.
On that same note, Bart Vanderveen. who wrote many books on military and civilian vehicles for Olyslager in Holland and Warne Publishing in the UK also had several titles in the pipeline when he passed away. His wife sold/donated his entire collection to a Dutch WWII museum and the owner of that museum apparently refused to let anyone access the collection. Later, that museum was sold to someone else and I lost track of it.
I knew Bart fairly well and swapped materiels with him for years for his books and also visited him several times in the UK and later Holland. I can attest that his collection was incredible and his books only captured parts of his collection. Again, maybe some of our Dutch members can try to pick up that thread again and see if they can find the collection.
Just some thoughts.
Bill
I believe the CONAM can help you with that.
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I'd like to come back to the idea of a "Concept-car directory" book.
I worked on a preliminary list of all the concept-cars presented by all the (major) brands at all the (major) motor-shows in the last decade, 2000-2009.
The list includes almost 1000 cars!
I did a quick search, so I think I can still remove some technological demonstrator (without styling contents), some preview-car, some not-so-interesting show-car (just with different paint&trim), but I think I can only reduce by 10-20% the total figure.
Now, the questions are: would it be an interesting book (also considering that it would be only the first of a little series, coming back with one per decade to the 50s or 40s)?
And, after almost all of you have repied that yes, it's interesting, is it interesting also considering that it will be very very expensive?
I think that one page per model is the minimum to provide an overview of its "concept". Below you find an example of how it could look like.
I'm also considering to have it with a very luxury binding, to make it a sort of limited edition collector item. Is it, in your opinion, a good idea?
Many thanks for your friendly feedbacks.
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My interest is much higher for older concepts. So, I might be a customer at a later date. :)
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I'd love to have a collection of books like that.
Like Otto, I'll be far more interested in older ones than in modern but as usual If there will be a serie I'll have to have them all.
You said very very expensive...are there some (highly approximative of course) figures already? If I have to buy 7\9 books I'd like to know where I'm heading... ;D
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In books (like many other artifacts) the cost (and therefore the price) is higly influenced by volumes.
This influence grows exponentially when the volumes are very low (which is normal for a niche product).
Provided that, I know how much would it cost to do "The" book.
What I don't know is if I've to split this investment on 100, 1000 or 10000 copies...
Let's say that if they were 10000, it would have a reasonable 50 Euros cover price (remember: 2 volumes, 8-900 pages minimum). But I can't ever imagine to sell so many books...
So, to be realistic, I'd focus on a small production. Hard to say at this stage a correct figure (please, dont blame me if the project goes ahead and it changes) but the target could be 150 Euros.
Provided that, I think that having a very luxury binding (hard-cover, perhaps with a nice material for the outside layer and not just paper, slipcase and eventually some other gadget I'm working on) for even something more can be better than a very basic-looking book.
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I'd love to have some comprehensive concept car books, but am only really interested in 1940s, 50s, 60s and 70s.
I don't mind paying a bit for a good book, but €150 is getting top-side for me..
I'm really not bothered about luxury leather bindings etc - it's the content that matters and is what lets most books down!
Not yours, though, I'm sure Alessandro.
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I think this is not a good idea... although it would be a great book... cause talking about modern concepts you can find a lot of informations and pictures on the web, more then you can find in the book, and to buy a book at that price to find something you can find quite easily with a computer it's fool...
It's just my opinion... ;)
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Italian Coachbuilders Encyclopaedia... the project is (slowly) going ahead.
Here you find a draft of letter "A".
I hope to add even some more brands, but it already provides an impression of how the book could look like. So, any of your comment is really welcome to make corrections and improvements on the overall design and structure of the book.
Sorry, Italian version only, so far, but the book will have also an English edition.
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I can't wait .
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I can't wait .
Seconded!
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too!
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Same for me !
One subject is constantly overlooked : pre-war cars, veterans, etc... In fact, books dealing only with cars made from Cugnot to 1939 are very rare and quite old.
I suppose it is difficult to make saleable a big book (in english) about Leon Laisne, Walter or Duryea, but I was wondering if autopuzzlers with a lot of knowledge and archives from this era would agree to create some kind of big encyclopaedia ?
A sort of Georgano/Beaulieu in a few volumes, and much more detailed stuff on whatever we have. Of course there are countless brands for which nobody has a clue, not even a single picture, but I suppose something more detailed on prewar brands in general would have sense. I suspect some of us have an impressive knowledge on some of these...
It would need probably as much as five or ten volumes, but I'd love to buy and read a full collection like this...
For me, the idea is to forget the big names, and concentrate on small and obscures companies. If you want to read about prewar Cadillac, Renault or Fiat, there's already countless articles and books !
There's so many great innovators the time has forget...
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The book is here and it's nothing short of awesome!
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The book is here and it's nothing short of awesome!
Nice!
It is only in Italian?
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Nope:
http://www.ilcammello.it/Libri/EOIC/eoic_e.html
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It's an absolute must-have for all AutoPuzzlers!
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I totally support the ideas of Alessandro about a book on all the 2000-2009 concepts ( please alessandro, no more than 150 € ! ) and the one of CMetisse : a book about prewar cars made by small and obscure coachbuilders ) but please, don't start from Cugnot ! He is certainly a pioneer but what he made was a locomobile, not a "real" car... I think the real automobile's father was in fact Amédée Bollée Père, with the "Obéissante" from 1873.
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Jotage 21, what about this book about brazilian specialist cars ?
Alessandro, you said the next titles in Aesthetica series will concern Lombardi and Coriasco but I've read on another forum you prepare one about Motto... Which one will be the next ?
The idea of a database covering special-bodied cars from 1945 to 1985 is fantastic too... Hope this project will be realized !
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A book about the forgotten creations of major coachbuilders would be great too.
I would be very interested about the international activities of brands such Renault, Fiat, AMC and more... Yann Le Lay worked some years ago on a book about Renault in the world but it is shelved for the moment, due to Yann's editor disastrous policy...
A book about GM international operations is now available ; I bought it, and it's fantastic !
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It's an absolute must-have for all AutoPuzzlers!
I second that!
What an immense heap of work it must have been, but what a result!
Thanks for the translation, too! :applause:
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What about an encyclopedia of replicas and neoclassic cars ?
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Huge task, but it would be very interesting.
\On my side, I'm now thinking about an encyclopedia of concept-cars (wiht the target of liting them all). But I'm afraid of the size of the book!
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Alessandro, you said the next titles in Aesthetica series will concern Lombardi and Coriasco but I've read on another forum you prepare one about Motto... Which one will be the next ?
Motto is the next one: I'm already half-way. I had the amazing chance to be allowed to digitalize the Motto family archive. There are unbelivable cars there!
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Motto is the next one: I'm already half-way. I had the amazing chance to be allowed to digitalize the Motto family archive. There are unbelivable cars there!
Can't wait! :thumbsup:
BTW: I enjoy your spectacular Encyclopaedia page by page!
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UUpdate: next book in our Aesthetica series will be Coriasco.
The work already started.
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Any 'archeological' book is always welcome!
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Can't wait!!
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Working on the Coriasco book. I need some help to fill a few remaining gaps.
I look for pictures and information about:
- any pre-war model
- Coriasco's personal Lancia Ardea (with which he raced the 1948 Mille Miglia. #1005
- Coriasco's personal Fiat 1100 S (MM 1949 #206 and MM 1951 #145)
- Fiat 127 coupé
- Fiat Panda torpedo
- Alfa Romeo Arna SW
- Fiat Ducato schoolbus with high-roof
- generally, any other non-Fiat vehicle (except the well-known Lancia Thema and Y10 "Style")
Your help is, as usual, much appreciated!
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Hello "als15", the reply is a bit too late as your wonderful book on Coriasco is already published in the mean time, however should you make a second edition of that book then you can find 3 different Coriasco Alfa Arna based 1:10 scale design drawings in the book "Alfa Romeo Arna, the true story 1980 - 1987" ISBN-13 978-1656632500 by Matteo Licata.
Keep up the good work of making interesting books on less mainstream topics!!